Would you prefer the Multiplayer Online Team Versus Team Role Playing Action Combat Adventure Game? (MOTVTRPACAG)
There's a reason why acronyms are 3-4 letters and not garbage like above.
The most correct term would probably be ARTS, or taking the history of the genre into account Dotalike, since it was the most popular game of the genre when it was still new
You make well thought out points and your opinion (which you are 100% free to have) is well stated, however. You are wrong in several of your assumptions.
I'm a GM for Heroes of Newerth, so what I'm about to say comes from 3+ years of playing HoN in addition to 3+ years of Dota 1, 6 months of LoL, and 2-3 months of dota 2.
For ENTRY LEVEL players, knowledge is more important than skill. If you don't know what heroes do what and what items to buy, you can be the most reactive, intelligent player in the world but you will still lose. That being said, as soon as you cross out of the 'noob' stage, you will quickly see that skill is incredibly important. Personally, even with all my experience (and I can literally tell you all 4+ abilities on every single of the 110+ heroes in HoN off the top of my head), I'm still only better than 75% of the players in the game. Skill plays a vital role in MOBA games, things like knowing when and HOW to juke (running from an enemy taking creative paths through the forest usually to obscure their vision around trees and objects), how to place 'skill shot' abilities (abilities that are NOT guaranteed to hit, and are avoidable with enough reaction time and skill), and having the experience to know where the enemies are on the map without being able to see them (although I suppose that's partially knowledge, skill plays a more vital role).
Anyhow, imho, MOBA games are deserving of their place in the PvP scene because they reward teamwork more than other game types because if your team messes up, you're stuck in a losing game for 20-30 minutes at times, so you all have to work together in a coordinated fashion. In addition, with hundreds of heros with abilities that synergize in vastly different ways, you not only need the knowledge of who does what (as you said above) but also need to have the skill to avoid or 'game' the various dangers that these abilities represent, just as 'knowing' a boss fight in WoW doesn't mean you'll win it the first time. You need to practice it and gain the skills required to overcome the challenges that boss represents, the same is true of MOBA games, but the 'boss' is a living breathing person, who wants to kill you.
I think I've had enough of removing avatars today that feature girls covered in semen. Closing.
Actually, Hillary Clinton is a honest person
Additionally, DOTA is not a genre term, it's a brand name. As such it's not going to apply to any other MOBA out there unless it is a direct copy. If you aren't defending ancients, it's linguistically wrong to call it DOTA. You don't call every hamburger joint McDonalds. You don't call every pizza place Papa Johns.
Last edited by Kelimbror; 2013-02-04 at 08:48 PM.
It's very rare when a product can brand itself to replace the actual thing that it is, like Kleenex for tissue. It's practically impossible for a video game, especially when acronyms actually stand for words. You don't hear people calling every MMO World of Warcraft. Same principle here.
Basically it's the highschool drama of video games. Unfortunately that results in awkward situations where we're having to discuss the merits of what to actually call these things. I see RTS as very clearly having resource, unit, and building management. Something that really isn't present in MOBA's. This is why I refuse to accept ARTS as a proper term, because it's trying to be overly intellectual.
We all know the real point of MOBA's are to battle other players on a map. Sure there's an objective and there are very high levels of strategy that are involved, but that doesn't make the basic composition very different. You kill the other players in a defined space. (battle arena) Trying to lump it into RTS is just wrong to me.
DDRTS --> dumbed down real time strategy?
All in favor?
I find it interesting that you don't think knowledge/experience, predictive capability & being effective team members are part of overall gaming skill.
Personally I too don't see the appeal. I only tried LoL and didn't really enjoy the experience. It was about 20mins of farming worthless minions while hiding behind your minions and tower-humping, followed actual pvp with slightly less tower humping.
Its just that the things you named are not really hard to learn. If you have at least half a brain and the stamina to play 1k games you can easily get into the top 1% of LoL. I watched tons of live streams and tournaments back when I played LoL and what the pro players are doing is stuff that every 2k elo player should be able to do. The hardest part is to play as a team, but the mechanical skill required for every individual player is lower than in RTS/FPS.
I also consider Dota to be slightly harder than LoL because due to the sheer amount of mechanics and strategies it becomes kinda like chess, which is easy in theory since there is always an optimal move but hard in practice because there are billions of possible moves and the player has to identify the right one.
Never played or watched LoL so don't know how that works but you can play 20k games in dota and you still aren't guaranteed to be at the top. When you don't fully understand the game, you can think that you are able to do this and that like the good players do but you can't when you're on the spot. There's a skill cap for everyone.
The good thing about MOBA (or whatever the people above call it) is it's a combination of different things from personal skill, teamwork and coordination to mind games and overall heroes strategy. The ability to position and know when to fight and when to run is not as easy as it looks. When you watch games without fog and know where everything is, it's easy to point those things out. But when you're in the dark, it gets much more interesting.