Thread: Best Race?

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  1. #1

    Best Race?

    Going horde and wanted to know what the best race for a resto shaman was. Is it still panda?

    Best Race order for Resto?
    Best Race order for Ele?
    Thanks for your help

  2. #2
    PvE-wise, I'd say Panda for Resto/Ele, but Orc is still the best for Enhance. For Resto, Goblin is always good for a bit of wiggle room on reforging and haste breakpoints, too.

  3. #3
    For enhancement troll is a close second to orc. Now that haste is more beneficial it may even be better. Really comes down to preference.

  4. #4
    So for Resto: Panda>Orc>Troll>Goblin because I troll comes out with slightly more haste than goblin and haste is the weakest stat for resto atm
    Ele: Panda>Troll=orc>Goblin?

  5. #5
    The Patient
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    The stickied Elemental guide has this to say about Elemental (scroll down to the end of the entry): Troll >= Orc > Pandaren > Goblin > Tauren

  6. #6
    Troll>Panda=Orc for resto. Don't underestimate berserking (or bloodfury) when coupled with healing tide.
    Also the elemental order stated by kaikoraimi is correct.

    Orc is best enhancement, Panda is grossly overrated (unless you're alliance and then you don't have a choice).
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  7. #7
    So it appears troll are the best for both ele/resto, and close 2nd for enh. Seems like a no brainer pve-wise imo (they're also pretty cool )
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blindlad View Post
    Orc is best enhancement, Panda is grossly overrated (unless you're alliance and then you don't have a choice).
    Wrong, Draenei is better suited for Shamans than Pandaren for Alliance.
    Last edited by Voyager; 2013-01-31 at 08:29 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    Wrong, Draenei is better suited for Shamans than Pandaren for Alliance.
    1% hit or 300 main stat, am i forgetting something or does 300 main stat blow away 1% hit? i mean 340hit or 300 main stat...that'd make 320 hit gems better than 160 main stat.
    Last edited by Socialhealer; 2013-01-31 at 08:54 PM.

  10. #10
    For Resto, Troll is not better than Pandaren even for Horde, because the Healing Tide (and HST) breakpoints are bugged and not acting in a reliable or consistent fashion. You will only sometimes get extra ticks from HTT+Berserking, so I would rather take the consistent 300 SPI or 300 INT over that.

    For Alliance:
    1. Pandaren (strongest Alliance shaman race by a mile)
    2. Draenei (Gift of the Naaru is a tiny output boost)
    3. Dwarf (nothing but a very weak 10% survivability CD)

    For Horde:
    1. Pandaren
    2. Troll
    3. Orc
    4. Goblin (Haste is our weakest secondary stat, and our haste thresholds are so easy to reach (or are unreachable) that you don't get much value out of 1% haste).
    5. Tauren

  11. #11
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    Pandaren bonus is dependent on the food you eat, and on eating food at all. Battle-ressed/reincarnated Pandaren, or Pandaren whose food buff falls off during the fight, can't benefit at all from their racial for the remaining duration of the fight. Furthermore, I'd guess that most raiders are eating +250 or +275 food (from feasts).

    Also, for ally elem sham, the sticked Elemental guide says: Pandaren >= Draenei > Dwarf.
    Furthermore: "Although if you value Draenei as worth 340 hit rating rather than 340 of the highest out of Crit/Haste/Mastery it ranks in first place."

    Also: "The difference between racial bonuses is fairly minor, in the ~0.3% range."

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by kaikoraimi View Post
    Pandaren bonus is dependent on the food you eat, and on eating food at all. Battle-ressed/reincarnated Pandaren, or Pandaren whose food buff falls off during the fight, can't benefit at all from their racial for the remaining duration of the fight. Furthermore, I'd guess that most raiders are eating +250 or +275 food (from feasts).

    Also, for ally elem sham, the sticked Elemental guide says: Pandaren >= Draenei > Dwarf.
    Furthermore: "Although if you value Draenei as worth 340 hit rating rather than 340 of the highest out of Crit/Haste/Mastery it ranks in first place."

    Also: "The difference between racial bonuses is fairly minor, in the ~0.3% range."
    On any progression content that is challenging enough to even care about the difference between racials, you either use 300 food or you're terrible. Sure, you lose the racial bonus if you die and ankh/get battle rezzed, but if you are dying on fights enough for that to be a major factor, you're also terrible.

    It all comes down to the following
    -Draenei vs Pandaren - is 340 Hit better than 300 INT/Spirit/Agi? I have a hard time believing it is with the relative ease of getting to hit cap
    -Goblin vs Pandaren - is 424 Haste better than 300 INT/Spirit/Agi? For Resto at least, it definitely is not better
    -Troll vs Pandaren - Berserking is worth an average of 472 Haste. Is that better than 300 stats when you are able to line it up with other CDs or for required burst?
    -Orc vs Pandaren - Blood Fury averages out to 282 SP, which is less than what you get from 300 INT from the Pandaren racial (even before taking the Crit bonus from INT into consideration). It's likely only ever better in situations where lining Blood Fury up with other CDs (which won't work well with Ele because BF is 2 minutes and Ascendance is 3) trumps the static INT.
    -Dwarf/Tauren - Not even worth considering for any type of PvE min max. The only exception would be Dwarves if you are using a Mace, which allows the 1% expertise(1% hit for casters) bonus. Even then, you would be better off going Draenei because you get essentially the same bonus without needing to use a specific weapon type to get it.

  13. #13
    Epic! Myz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    On any progression content that is challenging enough to even care about the difference between racials, you either use 300 food or you're terrible.
    What? The 25 extra intellect makes a difference, but how about we compute that difference?

    It's a simple case of a lot of tiny benefits makes one big benefit, but suddenly being degraded to being a terrible players because you choose not to carry 300int food as opposed to 275feasts on progression content is just absurd.

    Just like Elemental Shaman not playing a Troll/Orc on Horde aren't terrible players. The difference between racial bonuses is just as minor and no progression is going to challenge you that hard that you're debating a 25€ (or 20, I don't remember) expense for a 0.x% bonus to your performance (assuming you don't die on progression, as a Pandaren). That's simply a mental adjustment and overstating the actual benefit of racials on progression, unless perhaps you're absolutely and honestly gunning for World First, but let's not pretend that more than 0.1% of the actual player base is doing that.

    Racials don't really matter, play what you think looks good.
    Last edited by Myz; 2013-02-01 at 08:26 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    For Resto, Troll is not better than Pandaren even for Horde, because the Healing Tide (and HST) breakpoints are bugged and not acting in a reliable or consistent fashion. You will only sometimes get extra ticks from HTT+Berserking, so I would rather take the consistent 300 SPI or 300 INT over that.
    While the HTT/HST breakpoints are indeed bugged, if you look into bink's or theya's calculations at ticks at different ping values and the actual delta of haste needed - you will realise that it's not that big. It doesn't make sense gearing for it, but we aren't talking a 0.5% haste increase, but a 20% haste cooldown clicky for troll. You are guaranteed at least 2 extra ticks of each HTT regardless of your haste and these breakpoints being buggy (and can sometimes squeak out 3 dependent on your passive haste). Disregarding crit/mastery that is still around 350k (35k*5*2) extra healing at a period where you actually need it (otherwise why are you using healing tide?), and that isn't even counting the actual casts you are doing with berserking up. For me that beats 300 extra spirit/int which you can lose if you die (rarely an issue, but still a factor worth noting).
    Last edited by Blindlad; 2013-02-01 at 09:31 AM.
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  15. #15
    Mine is tauren. Warstomp is heaps of fun against players that think "lolol nub asif I'm gonna stand on that side of the edge"

    Warstomp > thunderstorm gg

    Also, I like to throw in a frozen powered frost shock in them as they fly so they can't charge or shadow step back to me :>
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  16. #16
    Fluffy Kitten Puupi's Avatar
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    Troll is the best. Two words: 1. Berserking 2. Ascendance.
    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken

  17. #17
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    On any progression content that is challenging enough to even care about the difference between racials, you either use 300 food or you're terrible. Sure, you lose the racial bonus if you die and ankh/get battle rezzed, but if you are dying on fights enough for that to be a major factor, you're also terrible.
    1) If you are working on heroic progression (of the normal, "our guild finally got that boss down on heroic" sort, or of the "we're world/realm first" sort) at all, you clearly aren't terrible.
    2) If you are working on heroic progression, your guild has probably wiped enough that battle-rezzes are important considerations. Paragon wiped 500+ times on heroic Ragnaros (source) before they got the kill. It's fairly safe to say that most current-content heroic progression bosses will take a few dozen wipes to down, at least.
    3) Being generous, say a relative +25 Int = a relative +100 dps. On a 10-minute fight, that's 60,000 extra damage. A single "lucky" (that is: one more than the expected long-term average) overload proc on a lava burst will eclipse that. Failing to get as many lava burst overloads as expected (the long-term average) will have more effect than choosing to eat a lesser food. RNG has a greater impact on DPS than the difference between +275 and +300 food. On shorter fights, the effect is more pronounced -- there's less time for RNG to smooth out, so a very lucky or very unlucky pull is more likely to occur.

    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    -Orc vs Pandaren - Blood Fury averages out to 282 SP, which is less than what you get from 300 INT from the Pandaren racial (even before taking the Crit bonus from INT into consideration). It's likely only ever better in situations where lining Blood Fury up with other CDs (which won't work well with Ele because BF is 2 minutes and Ascendance is 3) trumps the static INT.
    At level 90, 300 Int gives about 0.16% crit. If you had 300 spellpower and ~100 crit (just a bit under), you'd have the same gain as 300 Int.
    Comparing orcs to pandas, though, you have to consider when Blood Fury is being used -- it's a lot stronger than the theoretical average of 282 sp when it's up while Ascendance is (sitting on it for every Ascendance might be worth more than using it on CD). Also, there's orc's +2% pet damage, which applies to elementals (but not searing or magma totems).

    In sum: RNG has a bigger effect than the difference between reasonable food and the best food. Provided that you are making use of them, the difference between racials is small -- generally smaller than RNG and human error account for.

  18. #18
    you can get the best racials you can get the best food, you cant obtain the best rng, so i don't get your point, any raider worth his salt has seen a sub 1% wipe where every tiny bit of damage *10 or *25 people can get you a kill or a wipe, therefore 300 food > 275 stop pretending it's not worth mentioning.

  19. #19
    The Patient Lana's Avatar
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    mmm i wish we could get to a point where racials didn't make that big of an impact in playing, or that their benefits were less performance-based.

  20. #20
    Whatever race you prefer to be, really. I had tons and tons of people telling me to switch from Orc to Goblin during Cata, and I did so twice, and both times I re-switched back to Orc. Lot of money wasted to realize "Hey, I like my shaman being orc, racials be damned".

    One racial I think that gets lost in this: Hardiness. I have had many instances where having a couple tenths of a second shaved off a stun has let me save my own butt, in both pvp and pve (much more rarely in pve, but it has happened).

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