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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmiwink View Post
    Agree, that 2000$ build wasn't the best I've seen. I don't agree with you however on the motherboard, PSU and case. A good motherboard will last alot longer than a decent one. I don't personally buy motherboards below 250$(Norway) as I don't need to budget when upgrading/building, and those motherboards are of a much higher build quality than their budget counterparts. I'm not saying the ASRock Z77 isn't a good board, it is, but I wouldn't personally buy it.
    Most $100-$150 mothrerboards will last 3-5 years and then it is time to upgrade anyway, really no point in spending $350 except for bragging rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmiwink View Post
    The case is something I wouldn't overlook completely. Spending a few more $ on this could be well wort it in my opinion. It's all down to looks and cable management/build quality and lower end, cheap cases usually fail on all three of these parameters. I know, most of you don't think highly of the Switch 810, but I think it's a fantastic case not beaten by any case in the last year. However, a really expensive case like the Temjin 11 is better, but at it's price the Switch 810 is the best case on the market. If you don't believe me check out TomToLiveCustoms on youtube and he will confirm this 100%. So will many other enthusiasts.
    The Switch 810 is a good case if you want a "cheap" case made with a lot of water cooling options, however it is full of plastic and not something I would ever get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmiwink View Post
    A high quality PSU is about the most important thing you can ever buy for your computer. This particular piece is supposed to run and run and run for years. If it faults you risk damaging your whole system. Do the budget on that worst-case scenario and tell me exactly how you can justify skimping on the PSU. It doesn't do anything for performance, no, but it is a vital part of your system. Buy a good one like a Corsair AX and you have a 7 year warranty taking you through at least 2 builds. In the skimping case scenario you probably would want to buy a new one for the next build.
    You can get a high quality gold rated modular PSU for $50 less, only reason to get an AX is if you want to use the sleeved kits which are available instead of extensions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmiwink View Post
    Custom watercooling will only outperform normal cooling by a few % and will cost at least 1000$ to actually be a viable cooling solution. I'd recommend getting high quality case fans that runs silent instead of messing around with watercooling. You also have to factor in that you need to maintain a watercooling system at least 5-6 times a year making it quite a hassle for most people. I would only recommend water cooling if you are a case modder tbh, it does very little for actual performance.
    A good setup of custom made water cooling would destroy any other cooling if you build it accordingly, you can make a dead silent rig with 3-way SLI if you have enough radiator area and quiet fans, you can also make a 3-way SLI rig where neither CPU or GPU will pass 55c at full load.
    You don't have to clean it 5-6 times a year if you do it properly from the start, once a year is plenty if you don't put any stupid colors or such in the water.

    I just find it very odd that you are willing to spend $200 extra on a motherboard that gives no performance gain at all and not $200 for better cooling.
    Last edited by n0cturnal; 2013-02-02 at 12:32 PM.
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  2. #42
    I would gladly spend 1000$ on cooling as well as 200 extra on the motherboard. I am an enthusiast. Point was, with the 1155 platform, a watercooled system is pointless. With a 3960X however, it's a bit more interesting. A H100i with good silent fans will do the job just fine on an i5.

    Maintenance 5-6 times a year is however recommended. I have owned, built and maintained a watercooling system before and it takes a bit of effort and is not for everyone. This is my honest advice to anyone who asks. And 99% of people who install it didn't go "Yeah, I need good cooling on my PC cause what is available isn't good enough....derp...." It's purely for looks, through a window. I agree with you though, watercooling is awesome and I have already planned it for my Obsidian 900D build, all from EK waterblocks. But it isn't for the cooling just so you know.

    Spending 200$ extra on the MB makes it all look sexier in combination with the individually sleeved cables for the AX, and they are all black, all the way. Looks might not mean so much to most people, but for those it does matter to it's well worth the cost. Also, these premium cards have waterblocks available for purchase, another point when opting for it. Having a system that performs well but looks cheap, like the ASRock MB will do is not an option for alot of people. If they want their 350$ MB, let them have them.

    The switch actually has less plastic than most cases that are recommended here tbh. It's really a very good case and you can do alot with it. Only case to dethrone it available very soon would be the 900D. As for the Switch, it's not all good. Fans are loud, it needs abit of modding internally to be optimal for cable management. (Drilled holes into the MB backplate to stick the CPU power through, individual holes of course and some other minor things like sound absorbing materials etc) So 6 new fans from Noisebreaker, a Fractal Design fan controller and a Dremel is necessary in order for it to be as good as it can be but then again, I cannot hear it anymore than I can hear a watercooled system. I am a silent freak and can't stand noise so having a silent system is mandatory even when air cooled.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmiwink View Post
    I would gladly spend 1000$ on cooling as well as 200 extra on the motherboard. I am an enthusiast. Point was, with the 1155 platform, a watercooled system is pointless. With a 3960X however, it's a bit more interesting. A H100i with good silent fans will do the job just fine on an i5.

    Maintenance 5-6 times a year is however recommended. I have owned, built and maintained a watercooling system before and it takes a bit of effort and is not for everyone. This is my honest advice to anyone who asks. And 99% of people who install it didn't go "Yeah, I need good cooling on my PC cause what is available isn't good enough....derp...." It's purely for looks, through a window. I agree with you though, watercooling is awesome and I have already planned it for my Obsidian 900D build, all from EK waterblocks. But it isn't for the cooling just so you know.

    Spending 200$ extra on the MB makes it all look sexier in combination with the individually sleeved cables for the AX, and they are all black, all the way. Looks might not mean so much to most people, but for those it does matter to it's well worth the cost. Also, these premium cards have waterblocks available for purchase, another point when opting for it. Having a system that performs well but looks cheap, like the ASRock MB will do is not an option for alot of people. If they want their 350$ MB, let them have them.

    The switch actually has less plastic than most cases that are recommended here tbh. It's really a very good case and you can do alot with it. Only case to dethrone it available very soon would be the 900D. As for the Switch, it's not all good. Fans are loud, it needs abit of modding internally to be optimal for cable management. (Drilled holes into the MB backplate to stick the CPU power through, individual holes of course and some other minor things like sound absorbing materials etc) So 6 new fans from Noisebreaker, a Fractal Design fan controller and a Dremel is necessary in order for it to be as good as it can be but then again, I cannot hear it anymore than I can hear a watercooled system. I am a silent freak and can't stand noise so having a silent system is mandatory even when air cooled.
    Even though it is my first build I do agree I would spend the extra cash especially since I will be coming back form this deployment, to have everything match up.. does anyone know of a good windowed red/black case

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by FancyTheWarrior View Post
    Even though it is my first build I do agree I would spend the extra cash especially since I will be coming back form this deployment, to have everything match up.. does anyone know of a good windowed red/black case
    If you got money to burn you should wait for the 900D.


    It is supposed to be release at the end of March and will cost about $350.
    Last edited by n0cturnal; 2013-02-02 at 01:23 PM.
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  5. #45
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    I wont be back state side for a little so yes I do have the time

    can I get your thoughts on this case http://pcpartpicker.com/part/nzxt-case-phan001wt

    Edit: yes I know it is white, but I figured that I am trying for a white/red/black combo it would look pretty good

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    You'll still hit the same 4.6-4.8GHz ceiling with water cooling as you do with air cooler with Ivy Bridge, so there's zero performance gain.

    And yes, it has large negative impact on noise with 3-4C temperature gained while still being 40C under the maximum allowed. If you really want to push water cooling for serious performance gains, you need to go X79 route and with i7-3930X processor.
    Wasn't talking about CPU. GPU water cooling is incredibly beneficial and dramatically reduces temperatures. Entry custom loop kits come with CPU blocks so might as well take advantage of that.

    By the way, I'm talking about custom loops of XSPC quality or above. There is no penalty to noise when using high quality custom loop components.

    Don't bother going AIO since there are ~$150 XSPC/Swiftech kits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmiwink View Post
    The case is something I wouldn't overlook completely. Spending a few more $ on this could be well wort it in my opinion.
    Some people like nice cases, but the case linked was $300.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmiwink View Post
    A high quality PSU is about the most important thing you can ever buy for your computer. This particular piece is supposed to run and run and run for years. If it faults you risk damaging your whole system.
    All 'decent' PSUs starting at $50 have protection circuits. Ther only reason you'd go for such an expensive PSU at such high wattages with 80+ Silver/Gold/Platinum is if you're a PSU enthusiast.

    Custom watercooling will only outperform normal cooling by a few % and will cost at least 1000$ to actually be a viable cooling solution. You also have to factor in that you need to maintain a watercooling system at least 5-6 times a year making it quite a hassle for most people. I would only recommend water cooling if you are a case modder tbh, it does very little for actual performance.
    Have you even tried WC? Or read about WC user's experience? A base kit costs roughly $250 for CPU + GPU and a nicer setup start at $400 or so. You can easily afford this type of WC if you don't blow the budget on extraneous components like 80+ Platinum PSUs, $300 cases and 'silent fans' at $15-20 a pop.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyclops View Post
    Case & psu are most important go for a good solid Aluminium Case to keep the heat down
    Those cheap zany platic tin cases stay away from -& a good psu which will give you true clean electric on the rails
    Wut? Might as well go for a custom loop if you're actually worried about temperatures. A custom loop will keep temperatures lower and keep your system quieter than any $200 aluminum case can.

    Here's another excerpt from the dude I quoted earlier:

    I have FX 8350 at 1.57v, 7970 at 1.25v and 1.23ghz, 5.6ghz vram, and GPU never goes above 40c and the CPU rarely goes above 50c, and under stress test with AVX it barely breaks 60c.
    His rig consumes some 600W at full load (FX-8350 + 7970 overclocked beyond GE), yet his temperatures are exceptionally good. The only drawback is that he's using a 360mm radiator that is difficult to fit in most mid-tower cases.
    Last edited by yurano; 2013-02-02 at 02:01 PM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    Yeah, H100 is in theory pretty damn effective if you crank it to max speed, but it's also noisy as hell. With 2C difference compared to high end air coolers like Noctua's C14/D14 (who the fuck gives a damn anyway about 50C vs 52C when you can run i7 safely still at 90C) it's not worth double price and 15db higher noise. And if you run the H100 at low fan speed it performs worse than best air coolers... So there...

    http://www.frostytech.com/articlevie...id=2665&page=7
    I've got a H100 and I can honestly say at max speed its no louder than an air cooler, even less so actually, though I did change the stock fans and that might be why.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    Have you even tried WC? Or read about WC user's experience? A base kit costs roughly $250 for CPU + GPU and a nicer setup start at $400 or so. You can easily afford this type of WC if you don't blow the budget on extraneous components like 80+ Platinum PSUs, $300 cases and 'silent fans' at $15-20 a pop.
    Alright, have you had some experience with WC, even with me being new I have set my head on trying if it blows up in my face. Any help pointed in the right direction would be much appreciated along with any tips of the trade.

    As far as the case issue goes, I have made some adjustments to my build menu. hoping I am going in the right direction
    Last edited by FancyTheWarrior; 2013-02-02 at 02:10 PM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by b0sanac View Post
    I've got a H100 and I can honestly say at max speed its no louder than an air cooler, even less so actually, though I did change the stock fans and that might be why.
    Given that the fans are what will produce the noise in the first place I have read nothing good about the H100 stock fans.
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  10. #50
    I have tried WC aand I will havw it in my next build. Steampunk styled 900d was the plan with EK watercooling. Is it necessary? Hell no, but it looks cool if u spend about 1000$ on it

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by FancyTheWarrior View Post
    Alright, have you had some experience with WC, even with me being new I have set my head on trying if it blows up in my face. Any help pointed in the right direction would be much appreciated along with any tips of the trade.
    Well, it depends on how much you're looking to spend and whether you're going to aesthetics or performance.

    I prefer budget/performance so XSPC Raystorm kit + GPU block + XSPC compression fittings (~$30) for a grand total of $275~$400 (depending on radiator size and whether you get the 750 pump or D5 pump).

    I'm not familiar with high end/premium WC so you'd have to ask someone else about that.
    Last edited by yurano; 2013-02-02 at 07:27 PM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    Well, it depends on how much you're looking to spend and whether you're going to aesthetics or performance.

    I prefer budget/performance so XSPC Raystorm kit + GPU block + XSPC compression fittings (~$30) for a grand total of $275~$400 (depending on radiator size and whether you get the 750 pump or D5 pump).

    I'm not familiar with high end/premium WC so you'd have to ask someone else about that.
    I want more of an aesthetic build.... is that kit compatible with a lot of stuff

  13. #53
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    Basically he has money to spend, wants it to look awesome and perform awesome and can tell his friends how awesome it is from what I've seen. (To those who're confused)
    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    Nah, I disagree with your elitist mentality.
    Tier gear should be available during the leveling process. I don't want to have to mingle with these eltitist jerks in LFR to get gear as it is. I pay a sub fee, I shouldn't have to do LFR to get raid gear, much less Flex or Normal.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sythari View Post
    Basically he has money to spend, wants it to look awesome and perform awesome and can tell his friends how awesome it is from what I've seen. (To those who're confused)
    Yes yes, this is very true, sorry I have been bounceing around a lot. I Get tunnel vision from one thing to the next pretty bad when I get excited.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by n0cturnal View Post
    If you got money to burn you should wait for the 900D.

    It is supposed to be release at the end of March and will cost about $350.
    Speaking of waiting... New Intel processors (Haswell) supposedly out somewhere around April-June which might be actually worth waiting for.
    Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
    Trolling should be.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    Speaking of waiting... New Intel processors (Haswell) supposedly out somewhere around April-June which might be actually worth waiting for.
    You think the leaks are true? If so, the CPU power is quite similar to IVY bridge with only the integrated graphics being miles ahead of IVY. I agree, I would wait and see what kind of performance the Haswell have before purchasing a new CPU/MB

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmiwink View Post
    You think the leaks are true?
    Usually the rumored Intel release dates have been pretty accurate and it's about time they release new stuff. But of course there are no guarantees.
    Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
    Trolling should be.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmiwink View Post
    You think the leaks are true? If so, the CPU power is quite similar to IVY bridge with only the integrated graphics being miles ahead of IVY. I agree, I would wait and see what kind of performance the Haswell have before purchasing a new CPU/MB
    If waited on the CPU/MB would i have to change up my entire build to incorporate those into it or will they be compatible with most everything

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by FancyTheWarrior View Post
    If waited on the CPU/MB would i have to change up my entire build to incorporate those into it or will they be compatible with most everything
    Most likely not. However, we can't tell you for sure.
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  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    Usually the rumored Intel release dates have been pretty accurate and it's about time they release new stuff. But of course there are no guarantees.
    June 2 is the date that seems to be the release, just before Computex.

    DigiTimes has reported that industry insiders have told them that Intel Haswell “CPUs will appear on June 2 and related PC products will be showcased at Computex, hosted from June 4-8”.
    Last edited by n0cturnal; 2013-02-03 at 02:22 PM.
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