1. #1

    Mixed feelings on 5.2

    On one hand I'm very excited to try sub now that I don't have to sacrifice mobility for prep. I found on every fight the lack of shadow step was just too big of a loss for the spec, regardless of how enjoyable I found it.

    On the other hand I really am disappointed with where combat seems to be going. I enjoyed that it was a niche spec. While I'd love to be able to play it on more than just cleave fights, there hasn't been enough given to make up for it's low dps on non-cleave fights. I would be kind of sad if the next patch relegated combat to a dead spec.

  2. #2
    Not sure how long you have played, but this has been true it seems EVERY expansion. Combat starts out lower than Mut or Sub. But by the 3rd tier they lead the pack (with the exception of a few niche fights, like sub on Spine). I honestly don't expect this expansion to be any different. Combat just seems to scale very differently with gear, and really... I don't expect the dps on Combat to be THAT far under that if you enjoyed playing it more you couldn't.

  3. #3
    Low dps on non-cleave fights? Assassination is only ~3-3.2% ahead of combat single target and the buff to AP will bring them within 1% of each other.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    Low dps on non-cleave fights? Assassination is only ~3-3.2% ahead of combat single target and the buff to AP will bring them within 1% of each other.
    While this is true i feel as though Combat is a little harder to pull out the max dps as to where Mut is a little easier.

  5. #5
    That could very well be true, and probably a factor in why assassination is more represented.

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Whitey's Avatar
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    I only care about PvP so there's no really no negative changes for me.
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  7. #7
    I feel as though Assassination will be the way to go on cleave fights in 5.2. Basically, roll Rupture on multiple targets for the increased energy and decent multidotting. As a proof of concept I tried it out in LFR Stone Guards, and managed 140k dps in my shitty gear (In the process of switching rogue back to my main, still only 487 ilvl).

  8. #8
    I've been playing combat lately (mainly becuause ive only gotten swords and maces from heroics) and its...ok.

    It just doesn't have the feeling of a few good backstabs. In pvp..it's so incredibly one trick pony that I find it fun only when using the buffs in summit =) 5 crits at 100% dmg!? Killing spree fun!

  9. #9
    I think 5.2 will be positive for Rogues overall. What I really want is Ghostly Strike back. Make it a 1m cooldown and baseline.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bys View Post
    Not sure how long you have played, but this has been true it seems EVERY expansion. Combat starts out lower than Mut or Sub. But by the 3rd tier they lead the pack (with the exception of a few niche fights, like sub on Spine). I honestly don't expect this expansion to be any different. Combat just seems to scale very differently with gear, and really... I don't expect the dps on Combat to be THAT far under that if you enjoyed playing it more you couldn't.
    Wow I disagree with this.

    Combat only lead the pack in DS on (1) cleave fights and because (2) neither Combat for Sub had any aoe and/or (3) due to positional requirements.

    Otherwise, Sub was clearly ahead in dps.



    ---------- Post added 2013-02-04 at 04:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    Low dps on non-cleave fights? Assassination is only ~3-3.2% ahead of combat single target and the buff to AP will bring them within 1% of each other.
    But bear in mind Combat is harder to play.
    Last edited by jtstormrage; 2013-02-04 at 04:19 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jtstormrage View Post
    But bear in mind Combat is harder to play.
    The only hard part of combat is not using killing spree or using it at appropriate times / places on fights where it can kill you.

  12. #12
    I consider combat much harder than mutilate. You have a lot more to worry about for optimal play, and a much higher APM with a smaller energy pool, faster regen, and weaker, less expensive hits.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    I consider combat much harder than mutilate. You have a lot more to worry about for optimal play, and a much higher APM with a smaller energy pool, faster regen, and weaker, less expensive hits.
    I would disagree, while regen is higher and energy pool is somewhat smaller, combat is still fairly easy since there's a lot less RNG in it than in assassination.

  14. #14
    I'm pretty surprised you consider it so. For mutilate you mostly want to maximize envenom uptime while also getting to push mutilate during envenom. For combat you are trying to refresh slice outside of red, pool in yellow at times, transition rapidly, and optimize your cooldowns into red and yellow. You also don't want to press revealing any more than necessary, and run the very real risk of energy capping, and can spend less time off target before that occurs. I really don't think it compares.

  15. #15
    The Patient Linneth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    I would disagree, while regen is higher and energy pool is somewhat smaller, combat is still fairly easy since there's a lot less RNG in it than in assassination.
    RNG has nothing to do with how hard or easy Assassination's rotation is. You want to maximize Envenom uptime while keeping Rupture at all times; RNG only affects a certain % of said uptime, which has no real impact on the rotation as Envenom is a passive damage enhancer.

    Having played all three Rogue specs during Firelands, Dragon Soul and now in Pandaria, I would say that Combat is usually looked down on and said to be a retardedly easy spec. While it's true that the damage delta between "bad" and "good" Combat Rogues is minimal, a perfect rotation is actually quite hard to perform as it has many "do X during Y except if Z‹T1" while having a real risk of energy capping. I would even say that it is harder than Subtely, because Subtely is quite predictable because it has a stable flow of Combo Points and Energy, making its difficulty lay on a tough "entry barrier"; when you get to roll with the flow it gets quite easy and pleasant. Of course, the damage delta between good and bad play is MUUUUUUUUUUCH bigger, in this case.

  16. #16
    Both are very easy specs to play. Assassination has a linear learning curve and is a solid entry-level spec; the first 90% of combat anyone can master, but the last 10% (figuring out the more intricate timings) takes considerably longer. And combat, unlike assassination, is almost a GCD spec - you will be doing a lot more to get comparable performance.

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