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  1. #1

    Penalized for being a class with low representation

    It is notorious how classes with high representativeness are always privileged, causing a vicious cycle that will worsen our situation (the low representation ppl).
    Let's compare mages and warlocks: I just want to know why blizzard forced us to choice shadowfury, mortal coil or world of terror and let mages with frost nova, ring of frost, pet freeze, deep freeze, polimorph, passive slow efect using frost damage, frozen orb, iceblook and frost armor all together to keep melees away.
    Why not put shadowfury, mortalcoil and world of terror as skills and create another usable talent like an auto-banish (iceblook design)?
    Instead they give us a cosmetic effect, called Green Fire, which will not bring anything positive to our gameplay.
    The buff that rogues and monks are receiving is immoral and will greatly affect the next season and pvp game as a whole. Dk frost will be very very hard to beat too. Warrior with good gear and minimal skill is always a pain in the ass.
    Destruction have hard cast timers and is easily interruptible, Afliction works like a mosquito, buzzing, humming, but not hurting anyone and demon needs more burst damage or smaller cooldowns to be more effective.
    But we won the wonderful and amazing green fire.
    Many people do not agree with my arguments, especially those who do not play exclusively with warlock(I respect all opinions). But after six years playing WOW and I just see the same things happening season after season after TBC.
    Damn the warlock who stole the Ghostcrawler's girlfriend .

    - Sorry if I'm being annoying, but I'm already tired of all nerfs and the same idiotic answers to justify them.
    Really sorry!
    Ghostcrawler is gone, time to celebrate!

  2. #2
    6 years is a long time. If you really are sick of it, have you considered to reroll? It will be a nice change of pace and clear your head up a bit as well

    Then come back and play lock some more. Honestly with the changes happening so far, melee will rule pvp. Casters are gonna be rofl stomped even frost mages.
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Biruta View Post
    It is notorious how classes with high representativeness are always privileged, causing a vicious cycle that will worsen our situation (the low representation ppl).
    Let's compare mages and warlocks: I just want to know why blizzard forced us to choice shadowfury, mortal coil or world of terror and let mages with frost nova, ring of frost, pet freeze, deep freeze, polimorph, passive slow efect using frost damage, frozen orb, iceblook and frost armor all together to keep melees away.
    Why not put shadowfury, mortalcoil and world of terror as skills and create another usable talent like an auto-banish (iceblook design)?
    Instead they give us a cosmetic effect, called Green Fire, which will not bring anything positive to our gameplay.
    The buff that rogues and monks are receiving is immoral and will greatly affect the next season and pvp game as a whole. Dk frost will be very very hard to beat too. Warrior with good gear and minimal skill is always a pain in the ass.
    Destruction have hard cast timers and is easily interruptible, Afliction works like a mosquito, buzzing, humming, but not hurting anyone and demon needs more burst damage or smaller cooldowns to be more effective.
    But we won the wonderful and amazing green fire.
    Many people do not agree with my arguments, especially those who do not play exclusively with warlock(I respect all opinions). But after six years playing WOW and I just see the same things happening season after season after TBC.
    Damn the warlock who stole the Ghostcrawler's girlfriend .

    - Sorry if I'm being annoying, but I'm already tired of all nerfs and the same idiotic answers to justify them.
    Really sorry!
    Frost aren't really getting buffed. Unholy is.

    Rogues getting buffed too, which might be painful.

    Blood Fear was god damm stupid. Rather had it removed (or changed) into much lesser version, then recieve a buff later, than keep it.

    I actually think that tier is pretty balanced in 5.2.

    CC breaker (Unbound Will) - Good against Wizard Cleaves / Combos where your not the target.

    Burning Rush - Great against cleaves, playing with a class with slow, will make them easy to kite. (In 5.2 while active, you can maximum be reduced to 100% movement speed while active). If your playing against say TSG, Have your rogue (for example) stick to the DG; and you should have a easy time kiting him.

    Blood Fear in the new version is a "in between", as its good against teams that focus you thats, but most likely not better than burning rush against cleaves. RMP, RLS comes to mind. An horror is not a fear, so its great against warriors for example.

    They change Sacrificial Pact to only make it take 25% - (and 400% absorb) which means the shield easier to use.

    Howl will most likely be the go - to choice, as its a good instant fear, which gets reduced if your focused.

    I like the Fel armor change, I might believe it should be buffed to 20% instead of 10%, but thats a minor tweak - and its going in the right direction.

    Affliction (Which is what I like to play), have decent dot dmg, which also gets buffed, as its harder to dispel UA in next patch (15% buff + it crits).

    Its basicly the glyph WITH the silence, (without the dmg on the target), and thats a huge buff.

    Burst during Dark Soul is crazy, but substained is a tad low outside of this. This might help, but not sure if its enough.

    They talked about Supremacy gets reworked, which would be cool - I like the "buffed pets", but I think the choice between "akward substained" (Sup), and casted burst (Sac), is not really the way to go.

    The 5% nerf to Malefic is nothing, and won't change the meta game.

    I will play RLS next season, and I think it will be great - as its a good swapping combo (Rogue mobility in 5.2 yay) and locks dot pressure increased (Because harder to dispel).
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    LFR Hero/Alt: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...astasya/simple
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  4. #4
    Blizzard has different design philosophies for mages and warlocks. Mages get skills to keep melee off them, while warlocks are supposed to tank them. Unfortunately, while the mage tools are more than adequate for this task, the warlock toolkit is severely lacking. When you have to tank stuff, long CD's just don't cut it, especially when a single melee can force you to use those CD's without him having to use his own.

  5. #5
    Your argument kinda falls flat when you consider warlocks and rogues have always been the classes with the worst representation, yet have prettymuch always (until MOP) had great representation in high level pvp.

    I'm not disputing that warlocks are in a crap state right now, I agree wholeheartedly, but it's what's causing our current low representation, not a result of it,

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    6 years is a long time. If you really are sick of it, have you considered to reroll? It will be a nice change of pace and clear your head up a bit as well

    Then come back and play lock some more. Honestly with the changes happening so far, melee will rule pvp. Casters are gonna be rofl stomped even frost mages.
    I love the warlock style, just it.
    I'll always be a warlock ... at least to get fed up and stop for a while.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 06:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ripley6174 View Post
    Blizzard has different design philosophies for mages and warlocks. Mages get skills to keep melee off them, while warlocks are supposed to tank them. Unfortunately, while the mage tools are more than adequate for this task, the warlock toolkit is severely lacking. When you have to tank stuff, long CD's just don't cut it, especially when a single melee can force you to use those CD's without him having to use his own.
    this is the truth
    Ghostcrawler is gone, time to celebrate!

  7. #7
    i think passive mastery on next season's gear might start to make affliction more viable but I could be wrong
    I think i can give up choose talent in this level?
    because if i am not choose this level。 i can have 20% blood more than choosen..
    GREAT BLZ.
    warlock now became a guy use 5 level talents VS other 6 level.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Your argument kinda falls flat when you consider warlocks and rogues have always been the classes with the worst representation, yet have prettymuch always (until MOP) had great representation in high level pvp.

    I'm not disputing that warlocks are in a crap state right now, I agree wholeheartedly, but it's what's causing our current low representation, not a result of it,
    You have the right to disagree with me, just as I have the right to disagree with you. But if you look the warlocks after TBC, we see that few classes were so many changes for the worse and usually in patches released very quickly. While others are OP long until a fix is made. I do not know exactly why, but it is becoming very common.
    Ghostcrawler is gone, time to celebrate!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Biruta View Post
    You have the right to disagree with me, just as I have the right to disagree with you. But if you look the warlocks after TBC, we see that few classes were so many changes for the worse and usually in patches released very quickly. While others are OP long until a fix is made. I do not know exactly why, but it is becoming very common.
    the changes for the worst were to counter how potent Warlocks were. Chaos Bolt/Conflag HAD to be nerfed in Wrath because LSD and other Wizardcleaves were gibbing people in the opener. and during Cata, no amount of nerfs could stop the strength of RLS, MLS, Shadowplay etc because stopping dotcleaves relied on a total class revamp; moving damage out of DoTs and into Malefic Grasp. you shouldn't look at the nerfs, but how powerful the class was relative to those nerfs. Warlocks have always been strong and well represented in arena; in fact, low class population and high arena representation is a nailed on sign of that.
    I think i can give up choose talent in this level?
    because if i am not choose this level。 i can have 20% blood more than choosen..
    GREAT BLZ.
    warlock now became a guy use 5 level talents VS other 6 level.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by squidbear View Post
    the changes for the worst were to counter how potent Warlocks were. Chaos Bolt/Conflag HAD to be nerfed in Wrath because LSD and other Wizardcleaves were gibbing people in the opener. and during Cata, no amount of nerfs could stop the strength of RLS, MLS, Shadowplay etc because stopping dotcleaves relied on a total class revamp; moving damage out of DoTs and into Malefic Grasp. you shouldn't look at the nerfs, but how powerful the class was relative to those nerfs. Warlocks have always been strong and well represented in arena; in fact, low class population and high arena representation is a nailed on sign of that.
    Are u kidding, right? After BC warlocks had a few good moments, followed by various class nerfs that that turned us into something weak for arenas than 5x5 as an anoying class to cc ppl. In pve we've always been ok, but in pvp lacked something to be competitive in the 3 types of arena.
    Ah, but the game is balanced for 5x5 ... ok, but say it to the other classes too.
    Ghostcrawler is gone, time to celebrate!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Biruta View Post
    Are u kidding, right? After BC warlocks had a few good moments
    Are YOU kidding? Warlocks have enjoyed an incredibly high representation in arena compared to how low their representation is overall.

    MOP is the first time we've had bad representation as far as I can remember.

  12. #12
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biruta View Post
    Are u kidding, right? After BC warlocks had a few good moments, followed by various class nerfs that that turned us into something weak for arenas than 5x5 as an anoying class to cc ppl. In pve we've always been ok, but in pvp lacked something to be competitive in the 3 types of arena.
    Ah, but the game is balanced for 5x5 ... ok, but say it to the other classes too.
    Just saying, but warlocks were among the top classes during all of wotlk and cataclysm for 3s... And PvP is balanced around 3s, not 5s, nor 2s...

    Warlocks currently are in the worst state they've been since season 1, and 5.2 isn't going to improve it unless there are still some big changes to come. But please, don't make stupid claims like that if you have no idea what's going on, which is very clear from that one single post.

    Your argument kinda falls flat when you consider warlocks and rogues have always been the classes with the worst representation, yet have prettymuch always (until MOP) had great representation in high level pvp.

    I'm not disputing that warlocks are in a crap state right now, I agree wholeheartedly, but it's what's causing our current low representation, not a result of it,
    Warlocks never had a really high representation, but compared to cataclysm, our representation is halved. Rogues started in tbc with a very good representation, but since the class is getting so little change, people got bored of it and rerolled. Remind yourself the days of vanilla where half the server was rogue

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Biruta View Post
    Are u kidding, right? After BC warlocks had a few good moments, followed by various class nerfs that that turned us into something weak for arenas than 5x5 as an anoying class to cc ppl. In pve we've always been ok, but in pvp lacked something to be competitive in the 3 types of arena.
    Ah, but the game is balanced for 5x5 ... ok, but say it to the other classes too.
    there's opinion and there's fact. the fact is, Warlocks have, until this season, had Glad viable setups used by the best PvPers. I've already mentioned some of those comps and seasons which you've ignored. 'a few good moments' is just factually inaccurate, we were the second most represented spec last season above 2k, 11% of high rated players were Warlocks.
    I think i can give up choose talent in this level?
    because if i am not choose this level。 i can have 20% blood more than choosen..
    GREAT BLZ.
    warlock now became a guy use 5 level talents VS other 6 level.

  14. #14
    If it makes you feel better, as someone who has been playing a Mage since TBC, I envy Warlocks. I'd sacrifice pvp uberness, and dps for blizzard to take an active interest in how fun my class is like they have for Warlocks. I'd honestly just sit tight if I were you. They did a major overhaul of your class, and (like all of MoP) didn't test it as much as they should have. They obviously have Warlocks under the microscope and I'd expect (maybe foolishly) that they're working on making the new Warlock fun and viable in every aspect of the game.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Biruta View Post
    Afliction works like a mosquito, buzzing, humming, but not hurting anyone and demon needs more burst damage or smaller cooldowns to be more effective.
    Btw Mosquitoes are actually the animal that kills most people worldwide and if you let a Aff lock hum and buzz for awhile he'll actually do ALOT of damage. And the buff to UA will help alot

  16. #16
    I'm seeing representation come up a lot in peoples arguments, but very seldom figures, so these are they.

    According to http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0---0-0-0.html our PvP representation breaks down thusly:
    Destruction: 3.3% at 2200+, 2.7% Global
    Affliction: 2.8%, 2.6% Global
    Demonology: 1.6%, 2.1% Global

    So with a 7.4% Global population we have a 7.7% representation at 2200, with a sway towards people playing Destruction. So yeah, while we are globally under-represented, our 2200+ representation is just mirroring that. I think it's very hard to say whether that global representation is being hurt purely by PvP (not saying there isn't an impact, as we've always been over-represented there relative to global population), but the class has been has always been poorly represented globally and everyones' proportions are diluted with the impact of Monks.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ykza View Post
    Btw Mosquitoes are actually the animal that kills most people worldwide and if you let a Aff lock hum and buzz for awhile he'll actually do ALOT of damage. And the buff to UA will help alot
    To follow the analogy, they're incredibly easy to both prevent death if you pay even a small amount of attention and aren't living in a 3rd world country, and are very easy to kill.

  18. #18
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I'm seeing representation come up a lot in peoples arguments, but very seldom figures, so these are they.

    According to http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0---0-0-0.html our PvP representation breaks down thusly:
    Destruction: 3.3% at 2200+, 2.7% Global
    Affliction: 2.8%, 2.6% Global
    Demonology: 1.6%, 2.1% Global

    So with a 7.4% Global population we have a 7.7% representation at 2200, with a sway towards people playing Destruction. So yeah, while we are globally under-represented, our 2200+ representation is just mirroring that. I think it's very hard to say whether that global representation is being hurt purely by PvP (not saying there isn't an impact, as we've always been over-represented there relative to global population), but the class has been has always been poorly represented globally and everyones' proportions are diluted with the impact of Monks.
    It would have helped if you actually looked at the representation of 3s instead of everything combined. PvP is balanced around 3s, just because warlocks are wanted in RBG for blood fear spam, it doesn't mean they are fine.

    http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0-0-0-0-0.html
    This is where you should be looking at, even tough it seems like something is a bit fucked up... Not to mention that the system for RBG has been insanely exploited this season, having an insane amount of teams above 2.2k rating that didn't play any legit games, making it near impossible to get a proper view on how the real representation for RBG actually is.
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-02-01 at 10:15 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    To follow the analogy, they're incredibly easy to both prevent death if you pay even a small amount of attention and aren't living in a 3rd world country, and are very easy to kill.
    I take it you live in a place where mosquitoes are rare or none at all... Let's just say a good mosquito can hum and buzz around your head for a whole night, disapear whenever the lights go on (when you get up to kill it) and then you wake up with a huge zitt and if you're unlucky a deadly disease that you don't notice until it's too late. true story.

  20. #20
    Mechagnome
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    well lets put it this way

    fire top dps...too high only thing keeping up was affliction 1 of these 2 is now garbage

    chaos bolt hits for 400k....nerf frost bomb

    locks healing and they get an absorb...and some are pushing 600k hp....nerf ice barrier

    blood fear op as bawls nerf ring and deep freez

    imo your sitting pritty nice compared to mages atm
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