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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Eka View Post
    I am currently really liking the program, I'm on a 10% bulk, and I've noticed some great strength gains thus far. I don't have a reliably accurate way to measure my body fat, just one of the electronic biometric hand helds, which is telling me ~10-11% BF @ 180lbs, so I cant really say anything on my gains till I start cutting in a few months to actually SEE, which is what really matters .

    So your doing a 5x5 with 3-4 total movements? No accessory (bi/tri, abs, ect.) work/movements?
    Yeah im currently doing the "default" 5x5, no extra movements, just the compounds.

  2. #22
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harzaka View Post
    Yeah im currently doing the "default" 5x5, no extra movements, just the compounds.
    I've heard that is the largest complaint of the "default" 5x5, lack off extra movements. You could just add some in yourself, pick something you like and that you might already know what weight works/know the form, in a 3x8 set/rep range, for Biceps, Triceps, Abs, even Lats and calfs if you wanted, the accessory work is just that, the compounds are where most of your focus should be, extra if you think you may need additional focus somewhere else.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Eka View Post
    I've heard that is the largest complaint of the "default" 5x5, lack off extra movements. You could just add some in yourself, pick something you like and that you might already know what weight works/know the form, in a 3x8 set/rep range, for Biceps, Triceps, Abs, even Lats and calfs if you wanted, the accessory work is just that, the compounds are where most of your focus should be, extra if you think you may need additional focus somewhere else.
    I dont really mind not having arm training yet.
    Thinking about adding movements when i cant progress as fast in 5x5.

  4. #24
    Look into rippetoe's workouts. It is focused mainly on compound lifts 5x5 with room for you to add in any accessory work. As said above your form is more important than the weight.

    And nothing is wrong with full body workouts. If they meet your goals. You have to know and understand what you are wanting to achieve. For body building I seriously doubt a full body program will meet your goals.

  5. #25
    I highly recommend you do not do bench pressing. Highly overrated exercise that weakens your serratus anterior and can cause winging of the scapula. Just use dumbbells. Much safer exercise that is more realistic for every day use and that allows you to hit your serratus.

    Deadlifts are good but you really need a trainer to help you learn how to do it properly. I have NEVER seen someone teach themselves how to do deadlifts properly.

    Squat is the same thing. People tend to screw that up especially if they start at a older age. People who dont train when they are young tend to lose flexibility in the posterior chain and the calves which fucks up squat range of motion. It may take you 1-3 months of physical therapy to develop the flexibility to do squats properly.

    I kinda find bodybuilding to be a bad idea. It is hard for me to get under 180 lbs at 5'9" and that's when I am around 6% body fat. I have no idea why people strive so much to be muscular/large like I am naturally. I look worse in clothing than the same guys who weigh 20-30 lbs less than me who approach me at the gym to ask for advice. I dunno about you but I am in clothing 99% of the time I'm with people/women. I think the goal should be in this order: 1) develop proper posture and flexibility in order to prevent injury 2) develop sufficient strength for daily activities and 3) look good in clothing. Not being able to find a suit that fits me because all the arm holes are too tiny and the waist is too large is fucking annoying. That and I have to let all my pants seats out because my huge glutes and thighs.

    Bodybuilding can quickly develop into an Adonis complex in which you don't think you are ever good enough. Unhealthy hobby that rates up there with striving to be a supermodel.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 03:03 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Harzaka View Post
    I dont really mind not having arm training yet.
    Thinking about adding movements when i cant progress as fast in 5x5.
    Abs are sufficiently activated in squats, deadlifts, and any overhead press assuming you are using proper form. Arms should be sufficiently activated through pullups and presses assuming you are using complete range of motion.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 03:11 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Scythax View Post
    Nope no back injuries, my posture is pretty good actually. Only problem I have is when I use shoulder press, my joints get really strong, dull pain all the way down to my elbows which lasts about half an hour then fades. Doesn't happen when I use dumbbells instead.
    Could be an impinged shoulder. Or you may be straining your teres minor. Hard to tell without doing some tests. If I had to guess, though, you lack the flexibility to put your arms behind your head sufficiently for a bb military press causing an impingement of the shoulder. I would do some foam rolling of the thoracic spine to see if that fixes it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzWOECAhsAM as well as some shoulder dislocations. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33P5AI27eiU. Also do some YTWLs and draw the swords to strengthen your rotator cuff. The reason DB's may be easier is that you can keep them in front of your shoulder girdle a lot easier while bb's tend to force your shoulders back.

    When doing shoulder press with a db or a bb, make sure to keep yourself in neutral spine and really flex your stomach muscles. Do not hyper-extend your lumbar spine and turn it into an incline bench press. Good way to herniate a disk.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 03:24 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Eka View Post
    Yeah, I'm with this guy, no way you added 15 lbs of anywhere near lean body mass in a month. New bodybuilders CAN gain up to 25 lbs, MAYBE 30 lbs in a full year, their first year.

    Protein shakes (=/= weight gainers; full of fillers) help reach daily protein requirements IF you cant seem to eat enough food, have enough time to eat enough food throughout the day(things happen). Calories in, calories out while meeting your macro nutrient requirements. Check out bodybuilding.com's forums, nutrition section, read up on calculating macro nutrient requirements even if you don't plan on implementing it, there is good information in there about food.

    And yes, do add deadlifts, youtube proper technique, start light until you feel more comfortable with the movement as to not hurt your back. Maybe look into one of the stronglifts variations floating around there, user JasonDB on the bodybuilding.com forums has his own iteration that I'm currently following(Monday Wednesday Friday, ABA then BAB the following week):

    Workout A:
    Squat 5x5
    Bench Press 5x5
    Barbell Row 5x5
    Shrugs 3x8
    Triceps Extension 3x8
    Chin-ups/Olympic Bar Curls 3x8 (3xfailure on if doing chinups)
    Hyperextensions 2x10 (because workout B you do Deadlifts)
    Ab work 3x10-20

    Workout B:
    Squat 5x5
    Deadlifts 1x5
    Barbell Press 5x5
    Barbell Row (-10-20%~) 5x5
    Closegrip Bench press 3x8
    Olympic Bar Curls 3x8
    Ab work 3x10-20
    Ack, deadlifting after you do squats is a good way to hurt your back. Tire your glutes and hamstrings during the squat so that your body naturally tries to compensate with your spinal erectors can cause you to fall out of proper form. I would switch the deadlift to being before the squats and turn the squats into front squats or Olympic squats but otherwise I like the routine. Would also do db presses to hit the serratus instead of bench presses. I would also add some YTWLs into workout B instead of the ab workout. Your abs should be fairly dead after the squats, deadlifts, and bb presses.
    Last edited by jbhasban; 2013-02-02 at 03:31 AM.

  6. #26
    You're lucky OP as you are looking for lifting advice ONLY one month into touching weights and get to *hopefully* fully benefit from the coveted newb gains (Linear Progression!!)
    By now you know that your original workout posted is, sorry to be blunt, awful. That's okay though because there's a lot of GOOD info out there that will put you on the right track.

    I see 5x5 (aka Stronglifts) was recommended. When you mention Stronglifts, Starting Strength (by Mark Ripptoe) is sure to be mentioned as well. Why? because it is unequivocally the best for novices!! Google Starting Strength, read the wiki, read the bodybuilding forums stuff on it and never look back.

    Workout A
    3x5 Squat
    3x5 Press
    1x5 Deadlift

    Workout B
    3x5 Squat
    3x5 Bench Press
    1x5 Deadlift(which is at some point down the line changed/alternated for a 5x3 power cleans)

    *Accessory work is also introduced after a few weeks on the program.

    You're probably looking at it and thinking it's *too easy* or there's *too few sets* or there's *not enough burn*. SS will make you stronger, faster. You can sustain linear gains (SS has you slapping on 10lbs EACH workout to your squat) on a 3x5 longer than you can on a 5x5. 5x5 WILL make you stall faster and the volume is unnecessary for beginners and interferes with recovery. Then what does it have you do? Reset or just switch over to 3x5 (so dumb).

    Quote Originally Posted by gismo7354 View Post
    For body building I seriously doubt a full body program will meet your goals.
    The idea that a full-body program is not for bodybuilding, cannot be sustained long term or is only for beginners is just false.
    Tommy Kono, George Eiferman, Clancy Ross, Reg Park (Arnolds's mentor/trainer), Bill March, Bill Starr, Anatoly Pisarenko and Paul Anderson (among thousands of others) all advocated and used full-body routine and look where they ended up. Reg Park was Mr. Universe was 4 (??) time Mr. Olympia and was a serious contender for the Title at 45, 25 years AFTER he started competing. The others all have their impressive list of accomplishments, from WRs to Olympic Golds...do not discount the power of full-body workouts!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jbhasban View Post
    I highly recommend you do not do bench pressing. Highly overrated exercise that weakens your serratus anterior and can cause winging of the scapula. Just use dumbbells. Much safer exercise that is more realistic for every day use and that allows you to hit your serratus.
    A proper bench press shouldn't even hit the serrati (pl.?) really since your shoulders should be protracted. Overhead pressing on the other hand will hit and strengthen them. There's risks everywhere with lifting though, obviously moreso with bad form, which is exactly why proper form is ALWAYS stressed.

    Ack, deadlifting after you do squats is a good way to hurt your back. Tire your glutes and hamstrings during the squat so that your body naturally tries to compensate with your spinal erectors can cause you to fall out of proper form.
    It's all about conditioning yourself to do it. I'm starting up Texas Method again which has PR Squats followed by PR deads on intensity day. Focus hard on form and should be fine.
    Last edited by Lockstatus; 2013-02-02 at 04:15 AM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Lockstatus View Post
    You're lucky OP as you are looking for lifting advice ONLY one month into touching weights and get to *hopefully* fully benefit from the coveted newb gains (Linear Progression!!)
    By now you know that your original workout posted is, sorry to be blunt, awful. That's okay though because there's a lot of GOOD info out there that will put you on the right track.

    I see 5x5 (aka Stronglifts) was recommended. When you mention Stronglifts, Starting Strength (by Mark Ripptoe) is sure to be mentioned as well. Why? because it is unequivocally the best for novices!! Google Starting Strength, read the wiki, read the bodybuilding forums stuff on it and never look back.

    Workout A
    3x5 Squat
    3x5 Press
    1x5 Deadlift

    Workout B
    3x5 Squat
    3x5 Bench Press
    1x5 Deadlift(which is at some point down the line changed/alternated for a 5x3 power cleans)

    *Accessory work is also introduced after a few weeks on the program.

    You're probably looking at it and thinking it's *too easy* or there's *too few sets* or there's *not enough burn*. SS will make you stronger, faster. You can sustain linear gains (SS has you slapping on 10lbs EACH workout to your squat) on a 3x5 longer than you can on a 5x5. 5x5 WILL make you stall faster and the volume is unnecessary for beginners and interferes with recovery. Then what does it have you do? Reset or just switch over to 3x5 (so dumb).


    The idea that a full-body program is not for bodybuilding, cannot be sustained long term or is only for beginners is just false.
    Tommy Kono, George Eiferman, Clancy Ross, Reg Park (Arnolds's mentor/trainer), Bill March, Bill Starr, Anatoly Pisarenko and Paul Anderson (among thousands of others) all advocated and used full-body routine and look where they ended up. Reg Park was Mr. Universe was 4 (??) time Mr. Olympia and was a serious contender for the Title at 45, 25 years AFTER he started competing. The others all have their impressive list of accomplishments, from WRs to Olympic Golds...do not discount the power of full-body workouts!!



    A proper bench press shouldn't even hit the serrati (pl.?) really since your shoulders should be protracted. Overhead pressing on the other hand will hit and strengthen them. There's risks everywhere with lifting though, obviously moreso with bad form, which is exactly why proper form is ALWAYS stressed.

    It's all about conditioning yourself to do it. I'm starting up Texas Method again which has PR Squats followed by PR deads on intensity day. Focus hard on form and should be fine.
    Uh, in a proper bench press your shoulder should be retracted, not protracted. Power lifters tend to completely retract their shoulders (squeeze their rhomboids) and deactivate their serratus anterior muscles so that they can get a huge back arch to lower their range of motion. Bodybuilders tend to squeeze their rhomboids and serratus anterior muscles. In order to hit the serratus through its full range of motion and to get a solid looking back as a result (having the scapula in proper alignment makes your back look better, yes), you need to do exercises that protract the scapula and deactivates the rhomboids to a degree. Yes, overhead press does hit the serratus and is a good exercise for it but a lot of bodybuilders do a ton of rhomboid exercises (every single pull is a rhomboid exercise and some of their presses become rhomboid exercises too, i.e. bench press) and very few exercises that hit the serratus anterior muscles. When is the last time you saw a bodybuilder do pullovers, serratus pushups, or heavy db presses? Look at the routines in this thread and you will see the only exercise that hits it that people suggested are the military presses. It is just a very unbalanced way to exercise your scapula stability. Also, none of the routines focus upon strengthening the shoulder girdle. YTWLs should be in everyone's routine once a week.

    My problem with the squat followed by dl is that squat is very heavy on the posterior chain. If you are going to do squats and dead lifts on the same day, it would make sense to me to direct the squat to be one that hits the adductus magnus (sumo squat) or quadriceps (olympic or front squat) as you should be hitting the posterior fairly damn strong through the dead lifts anyways. You can do low bar squats (which is what most bodybuilders do as it allows for the most range of motion by most people as it allows them to compensate for inflexibility in the calves) followed by dead lifts but it seems silly. Both exercises are focused upon posterior development and you don't hit quads very hard at all then. Plus, dead lifts really need to be done with a perfect lumbar spine to prevent sciatica from developing. Fuck up squat form and the worst that likely happens is you crash down on the squat rack (maybe hurt your knees if you do it really bad). Fuck up dead lift form and you can cause some serious complications for the rest of your life. Yeah, you can hurt your back when squatting too but the sheer forces are a lot less than in a dead lift.

    Another thing to mention, a lot of bodybuilders have overactive traps as a result of deadlifts and shrugs and not doing very many shoulder protraction or depression exercises. Plus, it is just hard to stretch your traps to keep them loose. So dips and pullovers are an important exercise to do to help strengthen the pectoralis minor. I recognize the pec major and lats do the majority of the work in depression but the minor is still an important aspect that people tend not to activate very much.
    Last edited by jbhasban; 2013-02-02 at 04:43 AM.

  8. #28
    Stood in the Fire Halabash's Avatar
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    Ok here are some fundamentals to help you succeed at what your doing
    1. check out Kai Greene's stuff on youtube there is a 3 part movie on there "a day in the life of a bodybuilder"

    2. Muscle growth is dependent on 2 things, the 1st is how much weight you lift and how much protein you take in as a part of your diet. Ideally you'll want 1gram for every pound you want to weigh.

    3. Gaining weight is a wierd bag of tricks, if your into body building your going to be heavier for a variety of reason, mostly because your eating more and to a lesser extent because of muscle gain.

    4.Optimum strength gains and definition is done through a working out every other day. Your off days are when the real work is happening, so going every day is counter productive

    5.Muscle is inherently hard to put on and hard to keep, your body only wants what it needs not an ounce more. Lifting heavy for a few reps over a few sets can do more than going for lots of reps in a few sets. I suggest a 5 x 5 going at near max or 80% of your max.

    6. Working big muscle groups does more than working small groups, so spend time perfecting your squat, your dead lift and bench press.

    7. Being big is about gaining muscle, being cut is about dieting and understand that the guys on the magazines do not look like that all year round its impossible.

    8. Being extremely cut also means during those periods you will be much weaker than if you were not cutting weight.

    9. Go to a bodybuilding competition as a spectator, get to know who is there and where they work out, you'll soon figure out that it is not rocket science but still a purposeful manipulation of the human form.

    10. Focus on one thing at a time, get big then cut, don't try to get get cut and big at the same time it will end with very little result and lots of work.

    11. You'll need to be eating constantly during your cut times and you'll want to cut for not longer than 4 weeks, longer if your competiting 8 weeks max. You'll need to eat protein (no salt), rice, broccoli and a little water, every 2.5 hrs or as close to that as you can. When you cut weight your workout will change to a cut routine which all about muscle shape, so lots of clean reps and lots of variation (example your bench normal is 225lb on a 5 x 5, during a cut routine you use 135lb at 3 x 12 where you lower the bar on a 3 sec drop then press on a 1 sec up stroke, so 3 secs down, 1 sec up and you'll explode through the lift give it hell) think like this for dead lift and squat. You'll want to put in 1 day a week for finishing excerises forearms, calves, neck, shoulders, lats.


    12. Glad you read this far, this is most important thing. Get 7-8 hrs of sleep every night, no booze if your serious or at least very little, liquor only and like a shot at most during the weekend. Listen to your body, when you get in a groove and shit is feeling good keep pushing, but know that the day is going to come where you can't lift what you normally lift, we all have bad days, if your body is tired it won't work right and if you push it , it will break and then you'll have an injury that could sideline your dreams. The turtle wins this race, proceed with caution and maybe you'll survive your workout this year.

    13. R.I.C.E (rest,ice,compression,elevation) and naproxen sodium will be your go to agents to recover on painful days. If your gym has a sauna use it regularly and you can easily avoid most injuries.

    14. Stretch mid work out and warm up before serious lifting.

    There is more to this but if you've at least attempted this list then you are aware of the other stuff not mentioned and that means your on the right track.

    I am 33 and I started working out seriously 2 years ago, I am avid lifter. When I was 18 I put up 225 as a 1 x max bench press at 180lbs. I can put up 275 at 213lbs today. My goals have shifted over time and I am leaning more into a muscle shaping routine, my background is strength and power lifting so my form is tight which saves me from injury. I don't run, I walk, or do elliptical at 15 mins clips making sure my heart rate doesn't go over 145.......you'll figure all that stuff out the deeper into this you go.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by jbhasban View Post
    Uh, in a proper bench press your shoulder should be retracted, not protracted. Power lifters tend to completely retract their shoulders (squeeze their rhomboids) and deactivate their serratus anterior muscles so that they can get a huge back arch to lower their range of motion. Bodybuilders tend to squeeze their rhomboids and serratus anterior muscles. In order to hit the serratus through its full range of motion and to get a solid looking back as a result (having the scapula in proper alignment makes your back look better, yes), you need to do exercises that protract the scapula and deactivates the rhomboids to a degree. Yes, overhead press does hit the serratus and is a good exercise for it but a lot of bodybuilders do a ton of rhomboid exercises (every single pull is a rhomboid exercise and some of their presses become rhomboid exercises too, i.e. bench press) and very few exercises that hit the serratus anterior muscles. When is the last time you saw a bodybuilder do pullovers, serratus pushups, or heavy db presses? Look at the routines in this thread and you will see the only exercise that hits it that people suggested are the military presses. It is just a very unbalanced way to exercise your scapula stability. Also, none of the routines focus upon strengthening the shoulder girdle. YTWLs should be in everyone's routine once a week.

    My problem with the squat followed by dl is that squat is very heavy on the posterior chain. If you are going to do squats and dead lifts on the same day, it would make sense to me to direct the squat to be one that hits the adductus magnus (sumo squat) or quadriceps (olympic or front squat) as you should be hitting the posterior fairly damn strong through the dead lifts anyways. You can do low bar squats (which is what most bodybuilders do as it allows for the most range of motion by most people as it allows them to compensate for inflexibility in the calves) followed by dead lifts but it seems silly. Both exercises are focused upon posterior development and you don't hit quads very hard at all then. Plus, dead lifts really need to be done with a perfect lumbar spine to prevent sciatica from developing. Fuck up squat form and the worst that likely happens is you crash down on the squat rack (maybe hurt your knees if you do it really bad). Fuck up dead lift form and you can cause some serious complications for the rest of your life. Yeah, you can hurt your back when squatting too but the sheer forces are a lot less than in a dead lift.
    My bad, I did mean retracted, ie scapula pinched together. Been reading too much gymnastics stuff and they looovveee protracted shoulders. I still do believe that heavy overhead pressing is initially more than adequate for improving scapular and thoracic mobility.

    My knowledge on anatomy and such is no where near as deep as yours but I remember reading something in Ripptoe's book that explained why deads should come after squats. Gonna try and dig it out. For a less science-y reason, powerlifting meets have always had the order of squat>bench>dead but once again, dunno the reasoning (but I'm sure it's a good one!)
    Another thing to mention, a lot of bodybuilders have overactive traps as a result of deadlifts and shrugs and not doing very many shoulder protraction or depression exercises. Plus, it is just hard to stretch your traps to keep them loose. So dips and pullovers are an important exercise to do to help strengthen the pectoralis minor. I recognize the pec major and lats do the majority of the work in depression but the minor is still an important aspect that people tend not to activate very much.
    Alot of BBs have huge traps too because of steroids. Seen maybe a few studies at best that claim that the trap and neck area have the most androgen receptors. Doesn't necessarily have to be because of lack of shoulder exercise.

    We are splitting hairs here though, since the OP is a beginner. He should focus on gaining some sort of strength base before he looks into serious bb or powerlifting. A strength base perfectly served by Starting Strength ^.^ (See what I did there =p)

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Lockstatus View Post
    My bad, I did mean retracted, ie scapula pinched together. Been reading too much gymnastics stuff and they looovveee protracted shoulders. I still do believe that heavy overhead pressing is initially more than adequate for improving scapular and thoracic mobility.

    My knowledge on anatomy and such is no where near as deep as yours but I remember reading something in Ripptoe's book that explained why deads should come after squats. Gonna try and dig it out. For a less science-y reason, powerlifting meets have always had the order of squat>bench>dead but once again, dunno the reasoning (but I'm sure it's a good one!)


    Alot of BBs have huge traps too because of steroids. Seen maybe a few studies at best that claim that the trap and neck area have the most androgen receptors. Doesn't necessarily have to be because of lack of shoulder exercise.

    We are splitting hairs here though, since the OP is a beginner. He should focus on gaining some sort of strength base before he looks into serious bb or powerlifting. A strength base perfectly served by Starting Strength ^.^ (See what I did there =p)
    Well, if you do squats with a weak posterior chain you risk trying to compensate with your quadriceps which means you will roll forward on your feet and cause excessive torque force on your knees. But I would rather damage my knees than my lower back. Plus, when you fail a squat it tends to be right at the bottom of the movement. At that place, you should have the squat rack set up to only be an inch at most below you. That means you can just drop the weight with minimal problem. Generally you do not fail a deadlift when it is too heavy. You simply lift it with a curved lumbar spine if you arent trained really really well. I, personally, compensate on my dead lift with thoracic flexion but very few lifters have the ability to distinguish between lumbar and thoracic flexion.
    Last edited by jbhasban; 2013-02-02 at 05:51 AM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by jbhasban View Post
    I, personally, compensate on my dead lift with thoracic flexion but very few lifters have the ability to distinguish between lumbar and thoracic flexion.
    Always think of Konstantinovs's pull with the realllyyy exaggerated round haha. Novices though should just focus on keeping a straight back and just drop it/lower weight if any part starts to round.
    Last edited by Lockstatus; 2013-02-02 at 06:25 AM.

  12. #32
    Mechagnome Scythax's Avatar
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    Read everything posted here, some great in depth advice here that I'll be taking onboard and researching further. As a bit of clarification, I'm not interested in competing in competitions, and certainly not in building myself into an unfunctionable/impractical form. I'm simply doing this for myself, with a fairly general goal of looking good in a well rounded sense but not to the point of being rediculous. Having said that I have a high priority for making sure my form is good when doing ANY exercise, and I've put a lot of time into researching diet, body type differences, routines for said body types and generally trying to do as many things right as I can. In fact I recently changed my crunches so they eliminate the hip flexors, since I do have a very minor anterior pelvic tilt I don't want getting increased.

    The problem is that because everyone's body is different, the information you can gather is inherently different and contradictory too. It's been a maddening trial of patience and cross referencing. But like I said I'm trying.

    As for the debate between full body and split workouts, the fact is that (for now) I far prefer the FB work. It's been working for me so far, doesn't leave me very sore the next day, even after 3 straight days of it (my initial statement about working out 6 days a week was too optimistic of my actual results, I usually do about 4-5 days a week in all honesty), and I feel it in myself that my body reacts well to it. My plan for this first year was to keep going with full body workouts for the first 9 months, to get myself a strong base with which to then switch over to split workouts once I was more established. But since the overwhelming opinion is that my current routine I've been using is pretty godawful, if someone could draft a better FB plan to try for a few months at least I'd be VERY grateful. Something that makes use of mostly compound movements and avoids bench presses with bar and shoulder press machines (both of which my shoulder joints really don't like). Anything with dumbbells is free game.

    I know I'm very new to this and that's the whole reason for this thread; to better educate myself and play it smarter.
    Last edited by Scythax; 2013-02-02 at 09:02 AM.

  13. #33
    You need to split the workout of different muscle groups. If you keep working out the same muscles every day, over and over, you are not giving them time to recover
    That's the thing about RNG. It doesn't hate anybody - it just goes about its business, oblivious to the world around it.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Scythax View Post
    Read everything posted here, some great in depth advice here that I'll be taking onboard and researching further. As a bit of clarification, I'm not interested in competing in competitions, and certainly not in building myself into an unfunctionable/impractical form. I'm simply doing this for myself, with a fairly general goal of looking good in a well rounded sense but not to the point of being rediculous. Having said that I have a high priority for making sure my form is good when doing ANY exercise, and I've put a lot of time into researching diet, body type differences, routines for said body types and generally trying to do as many things right as I can. In fact I recently changed my crunches so they eliminate the hip flexors, since I do have a very minor anterior pelvic tilt I don't want getting increased.

    The problem is that because everyone's body is different, the information you can gather is inherently different and contradictory too. It's been a maddening trial of patience and cross referencing. But like I said I'm trying.

    As for the debate between full body and split workouts, the fact is that (for now) I far prefer the FB work. It's been working for me so far, doesn't leave me very sore the next day, even after 3 straight days of it (my initial statement about working out 6 days a week was too optimistic of my actual results, I usually do about 4-5 days a week in all honesty), and I feel it in myself that my body reacts well to it. My plan for this first year was to keep going with full body workouts for the first 9 months, to get myself a strong base with which to then switch over to split workouts once I was more established. But since the overwhelming opinion is that my current routine I've been using is pretty godawful, if someone could draft a better FB plan to try for a few months at least I'd be VERY grateful. Something that makes use of mostly compound movements and avoids bench presses with bar and shoulder press machines (both of which my shoulder joints really don't like). Anything with dumbbells is free game.

    I know I'm very new to this and that's the whole reason for this thread; to better educate myself and play it smarter.
    Day 1)
    Run for 15 mins.
    Super Set: Inc DB BP + Close Grip chin ups
    Single leg dead lifts
    Super Set: Standing DB shoulder presses + Band pull aparts
    Walking lunges
    Regular and side planks
    Run for 15 mins

    D2)
    Run for 10 mins.
    Super set: Wide grip pullups/eccentric wide grip pullups if you are too weak + pushup plusses with weight on back
    Squats with plates under your heal (focuses quads a bit more)
    Super set: Low cable pulls + upright rows with dbs
    Super set: Step ups + one legged stability pad stands
    Russian twists
    Run for 20 mins.

    D3)
    Run for 15 mins
    Kettlebell Swings
    Windmills
    Straight leg dead lift or RDL
    Cable press
    YTWLs
    Run for 15 mins

    D4)
    Run for 5 mins.
    Box jumps for height or tuck jumps
    Plyopushup
    Gorilla cleans
    One arm cable rows on a bola ball
    Face pulls
    Landmines
    Roman chair or hanging leg raises
    Run for 25 mins.

    D5)
    Run for 5 mins.
    3-5 sets of the following:
    1 min of military presses
    1 min of pullups
    1 min of medicine ball slams
    1 min of pushups
    1 min of 20 inch box jumps
    Take a 1 min break, Jog for 5 mins, take another 1 min break and then do another set.

    D6)
    Run for 30 mins.
    30-60 mins of foam rolling + stretching.

    This is similar to a routine I would use but I switch in a deadlift day every other week but a beginner shouldn't do deadlifts until he has developed some kinesthetics. This means you need to learn how your lumbar spine feels when flexed and extended and proper hip activation/hip drive.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 03:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zuko View Post
    You need to split the workout of different muscle groups. If you keep working out the same muscles every day, over and over, you are not giving them time to recover
    This is ridiculous. You can hit the same body part every day so long as you do it in a different way an for a different purpose/tempo.

    Now, if the routine above is too demanding (and it may be, it is very demanding for me and I am an experienced lifter), you can always take out one day and just do running instead.
    Last edited by jbhasban; 2013-02-02 at 03:21 PM.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Scythax View Post
    I used to be an extremely lazy person in general until this year. I took a new year resolution to start body building (began on the 2nd of Jan) and am absolutely LOVING life ever since.

    I'm an ectomorph who used to have a REALLY shitty diet and sat playing games on the PC literally ALL day. Only leaving the house to go to lectures, buy soda and pick up pizza orders. Now I'm spending 2-3 hours a day, 6 days a week at the gym doing full body workouts, and I seriously wish I could spend MORE time there than I do.

    Been eating mostly a paleo diet, cut all sugars out of my diet (stopped soda cold turkey style, and it was easy), and taking 2 weight gainer protein shakes a day. Although because of my body type and metabolism I luckily don't need to be all that careful about what I eat. My starting weight on my first day of gym (empty stomach weighing of course) was 138 pounds. Now after my first month I'm at a nicely filled out 153 pounds. It's incredible the difference lifting can make to your life almost overnight.

    So to get to the point, I'm coming into my 2nd month of this and wondering if you guys with more experience might offer some advice as to how I could mix up my routine going forward, such as adding in an exercise for a muscle group I've skimmed over? I'd appreciate any feedback.

    My current routine is as follows;

    (This whole workout is in a 12x3 format (other than abs which is 25x3). Always going to exhaustion on the 3rd set, past the 12 reps if I need to. This is what I do 5-6 days a week, doesn't make me too sore either.)

    -5mins elliptical/bike warmup
    -Dumbbell Incline Bench Press
    -Lat Pulldown Wide Grip
    -Dumbell Shoulder Press (the machine snaps all my shit up in my joints for some reason)
    -Leg Press
    -Leg Extentions
    -Lying Leg Curls
    -Dumbbell Calf Raises
    -Seated Calf Raises
    -Tricep Pulldowns (over and underhanded grip alternating)
    -Hyperextentions
    -Obliques Hyperextentions (not really sure what else to call these)
    -Dumbbell Curls
    -Double Crunches

    Like I said any suggestions are welcome. I keep my cardio to a minimum because of my body type and super sayan metabolic rate.
    look up the book "Starting strength" and the web page. Read it, Do it, Live it. Mark Ripptoe is a genius at making small guys into strong men. Like another poster mentioned, You need to do Dead lifts and Squats. Don't waste time right now dong isolation exercises, you need to build your core and your major muscle groups.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by berkwaz View Post
    look up the book "Starting strength" and the web page. Read it, Do it, Live it. Mark Ripptoe is a genius at making small guys into strong men. Like another poster mentioned, You need to do Dead lifts and Squats. Don't waste time right now dong isolation exercises, you need to build your core and your major muscle groups.
    Mark Ripptoe is incredibly knowledgeable but he and I disagree as to how beginners should train. I dont think he focuses on proprioception nearly enough.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Eka View Post
    I am currently really liking the program, I'm on a 10% bulk, and I've noticed some great strength gains thus far. I don't have a reliably accurate way to measure my body fat, just one of the electronic biometric hand helds, which is telling me ~10-11% BF @ 180lbs, so I cant really say anything on my gains till I start cutting in a few months to actually SEE, which is what really matters .

    So your doing a 5x5 with 3-4 total movements? No accessory (bi/tri, abs, ect.) work/movements?

    Strong Lifts 5x5 or "Starting strength" is perfect for you. Don't waste your time cutting right now. You have nothing to see. You dont need to worry about biceps and triceps right now, they are the some of the smallest muscles in you body, and will not get much bigger unless you get your major muscle groups stronger. i.e. legs back and chest. Pick one of these programs and follow it to a T for twelve weeks and see how much you improve.

  18. #38
    The Lightbringer Rivehn's Avatar
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    I would recommend doing Starting Strength for awhile. Put on some decent strength gains first.

  19. #39
    High Overlord
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by berkwaz View Post
    Strong Lifts 5x5 or "Starting strength" is perfect for you. Don't waste your time cutting right now. You have nothing to see. You dont need to worry about biceps and triceps right now, they are the some of the smallest muscles in you body, and will not get much bigger unless you get your major muscle groups stronger. i.e. legs back and chest. Pick one of these programs and follow it to a T for twelve weeks and see how much you improve.
    Yep! That's what I'm doing and realize I shouldn't cut (approximately 3000 calories a day atm), that's why I said a few months from now, however I should have also said if I looked like I could/should cut. They call it skinny fat, thats where I was, still am, but not as bad as before. Been at this for about 2-3 months now. I try to read up as much as I can, my accessory movements come at the end of the workout, and only a few sets, 2-3, because I realize they are the same muscles activated during major compound movements.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Eka View Post
    Yep! That's what I'm doing and realize I shouldn't cut (approximately 3000 calories a day atm), that's why I said a few months from now, however I should have also said if I looked like I could/should cut. They call it skinny fat, thats where I was, still am, but not as bad as before. Been at this for about 2-3 months now. I try to read up as much as I can, my accessory movements come at the end of the workout, and only a few sets, 2-3, because I realize they are the same muscles activated during major compound movements.
    You're skinny fat because you're missing alot of muscle, to get rid of "skinny fat" you gotta build muscle, especially in your back and abdominal area.

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