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  1. #41
    Glad your enjoying the new life style. As you can see, opinions are very widespread when it comes to deciding whats best for you. Sadly, alot of advice comes from anecdotal evidence and people that are religious to one particular form of lifting.

    It does seem like your off to a great start, thats great. The first thing i would suggest, is really to go nerd-mode on nutrition. Nutrition is arguably the most important thing to understand if you want to see great results. There is a lot of great articles on the web. I can really recommend stuff from Layne Norton, he's one of the few that i know on the top of my head that cuts the broscience.

    There is a lot of misplaced hate going on about supplementation on this forum, the truth is if you understand its purpose its a must have in any body builders toolkit. However, i would really advice against weight gainers, its just overpriced sugar. Buy yourself some protein powder, and drink the rest of your carbs through something else. This way you can control your Carb/protein ratio much better.

    About your training, i would really suggest doing some split rutine. Doing full body 5-6 times a week is overkill. Probrably the best rutine/system i can think of right now is Layne Norton's P.H.A.T, its a great system that incorporates every important part of weight lifting. A lot of people are religiously bound to a certain rep range that they consider to be the golden point, ie 5x5, 4x12. While neither are wrong as you can get great results from both, your excluding a huge growth potential. Your muscles consists of several muscles fibers which all react best to different tempo and rep ranges. While heavy lifts such as 5x5 stimulates them all, they aren't used to their full potential.

    Here a link to PHAT: http://www.simplyshredded.com/mega-f...ated-2011.html

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Labze View Post
    Glad your enjoying the new life style. As you can see, opinions are very widespread when it comes to deciding whats best for you. Sadly, alot of advice comes from anecdotal evidence and people that are religious to one particular form of lifting.

    It does seem like your off to a great start, thats great. The first thing i would suggest, is really to go nerd-mode on nutrition. Nutrition is arguably the most important thing to understand if you want to see great results. There is a lot of great articles on the web. I can really recommend stuff from Layne Norton, he's one of the few that i know on the top of my head that cuts the broscience.

    There is a lot of misplaced hate going on about supplementation on this forum, the truth is if you understand its purpose its a must have in any body builders toolkit. However, i would really advice against weight gainers, its just overpriced sugar. Buy yourself some protein powder, and drink the rest of your carbs through something else. This way you can control your Carb/protein ratio much better.

    About your training, i would really suggest doing some split rutine. Doing full body 5-6 times a week is overkill. Probrably the best rutine/system i can think of right now is Layne Norton's P.H.A.T, its a great system that incorporates every important part of weight lifting. A lot of people are religiously bound to a certain rep range that they consider to be the golden point, ie 5x5, 4x12. While neither are wrong as you can get great results from both, your excluding a huge growth potential. Your muscles consists of several muscles fibers which all react best to different tempo and rep ranges. While heavy lifts such as 5x5 stimulates them all, they aren't used to their full potential.

    Here a link to PHAT: http://www.simplyshredded.com/mega-f...ated-2011.html
    Most people do not want to be bodybuilders. Bodybuilders are ugly to most women. Only guys tend to think heavily muscled guys are attractive. Most people lift for the purpose of being attractive. To that end, supplements are not useful.

    I don't use supplements because I feel I am too muscular as it is. I am at around 10% body fat at 190 lbs at 5'9". I would love to be 20 lbs lighter at around 12% body fat but that is never going to happen. Walked around for 10 years at 300 lbs builds fat guy legs that just never get small no matter what. My goal is to get stronger and lose muscle mass. My trainer is perplexed in how to handle that goal.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by jbhasban View Post
    Most people do not want to be bodybuilders. Bodybuilders are ugly to most women. Only guys tend to think heavily muscled guys are attractive. Most people lift for the purpose of being attractive. To that end, supplements are not useful.

    I don't use supplements because I feel I am too muscular as it is. I am at around 10% body fat at 190 lbs at 5'9". I would love to be 20 lbs lighter at around 12% body fat but that is never going to happen. Walked around for 10 years at 300 lbs builds fat guy legs that just never get small no matter what. My goal is to get stronger and lose muscle mass. My trainer is perplexed in how to handle that goal.
    That is just... What? Bodybuilders are ugly to most women, you have any statistics on that? Supplements won't do anything you can't archive on normal foods, it can just help the process. If your lifting weights, you probrably want to get more muscular, why else would you do it? If your aiming for strength, sure you can get stronger with out putting on size, but in the end your strength will be limited to the size of your muscles.

    You won't at some point grow too big on supplements, its the typical stupid quote you see every once in a while "I don't want to lift heavy cause i don't want to look like Arnold", but guess what muscles doesn't just don't come overnight, is the idea of stopping when you reach your goal hard to grasp? Unless you go on roids you won't reach freak size.

    I find it hard to belive your too muscular just like that, most times when i hear people say that its purely a body fat and posture issue, can't say tho if your genetically blessed or what not. Do loads of cardio on a low protein cut diet and your muscles will slowly fade away.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Labze View Post
    That is just... What? Bodybuilders are ugly to most women, you have any statistics on that? Supplements won't do anything you can't archive on normal foods, it can just help the process. If your lifting weights, you probrably want to get more muscular, why else would you do it? If your aiming for strength, sure you can get stronger with out putting on size, but in the end your strength will be limited to the size of your muscles.

    You won't at some point grow too big on supplements, its the typical stupid quote you see every once in a while "I don't want to lift heavy cause i don't want to look like Arnold", but guess what muscles doesn't just don't come overnight, is the idea of stopping when you reach your goal hard to grasp? Unless you go on roids you won't reach freak size.

    I find it hard to belive your too muscular just like that, most times when i hear people say that its purely a body fat and posture issue, can't say tho if your genetically blessed or what not. Do loads of cardio on a low protein cut diet and your muscles will slowly fade away.
    I have a 31 inch waist, 43 inch hips, 42 inch chest. My thighs and shoulders are ginormous but I haven't measured them in awhile. I wear size 33 (can fit into 31s and 32s if I can get them over my butt) loose jeans so that my legs can fit in them and they still feel like skinny jeans around the legs. I am at around 10-12% body fat now. When I cut down to 180 last summer I got tested at 5% bodyfat in a Dexa scan.

    I am not too muscular as far as it goes for women. I do not look unnatural/rodial. I am too muscular for how I want to be. I want to be able to buy pants easier. But my legs are always going to be huge as a result of having ginormous endurance muscles from having been overweight and athletic (football, wrestling, lacross). If you carry around 300 lbs while running a lot you tend to have to build massive leg muscles to deal with the constant pressure.
    Last edited by jbhasban; 2013-02-06 at 10:22 PM.

  5. #45
    -you should learn to love compound movements, also learn to do them correctly, and with good form..will give your body the best overall muscular responses hormonal,etc..should be doing these with full range of motion
    Should be the main focus of any workout, depending on the day:
    barbell bench press------main3
    squats------------------main3
    deadlift ----------------main3
    standing overhead press no leg drive---great for all areas of shoulder development....works core strength, triceps, back
    barbell row
    pullups------palms facing you help with bicep development
    dips
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    assistance lifts to aid the main lifts / overall muscle gain etc..maybe 1,2,or 3 a workout
    DB bench
    DB shoulder press / side lateral raises
    incline barbell bench / incline db bench
    GHR ---------------greattt movement
    barbell curls
    lying leg curls / hyperextensions
    lying tricep extension
    legpress----can be good, NEVERRR replaces squats though
    front squats / leg extension
    can pretty much achieve anything you want using the compounds
    -since your a beginner taking advantage of those newb gains could very well result in a huge increase in strength and muscle gain, 10-50 lbs is very possible, obviously not all muscle...depends on what you eat...need to eat in excess of what ur body burns to gain any weight
    -great program that takes advantage of those noob gains is STARTING STRENGTH and will lead to great gains if you follow it for a period of time
    -you dont need to kill your muscles to gain muscle / strength

    ****Dont deprive your self of stuff you love, life wont be too interesting if you only eat oats, plain chicken, and rice....you can have sweets, fast food, etc... gain / loss is decided by a surplus or deficit......your metabolism doesnt know the diff between Mcdonalds chicken nuggets and a plain chicken breast, just the macros it contains(colesterol / sodium etc will obv be different).....
    usually you should get 1 gram of protein for each LEAN pound of bodyweight you have...shouldnt really stress the macro split, just need protein to recover properly(usually 40p-40c-20f is good....but anything as long as u get the calories / protein will do it)........carbs for muscular energy....fat for hormone production / nutrient absorbtion, etc..
    --weight gainers / protein powder are perfectly fine, but they do nothing special except pack a bunch of macros into a tiny amount of space........ex: scoop of protein(~30g) vs 3oz chicken.............scoop of weight gainer vs 3oz chicken + 60g rice



    ive achieved ~18 in arms just doing pullups as assistance(palms facing me) + my personal powerlifting routine....started at a bodytype + gaming situation similar to yours

  6. #46
    Herald of the Titans Bathory's Avatar
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    What protein are you using, if I may ask?
    You now stand before the Countess.
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  7. #47
    I will say up front that I did not bother to read a lot of what was posted here. After reading your post though, I will say a few things.

    1. If you do not understand physiology, please read up on a few things involving muscle groups and fiber repair mechanisms.

    2. Smaller weight and more reps is far more effective then raising the weight. You wont wand huge muscles. You want dense muscles. Thats not to say Im stating that 100 points at 20 reps beats 130 at 12. Simply that a balance in that area is necessary.

    3. Cardia is absolutely necessary. As much as you would love to believe it, 'sayan' metabolic rates and body type have little to do with it. The reason for a slight warm up or mid exercise cardio is to increase blood flow and promote the dispersion of macrophage. Which in turn helps with fiber repair. Which speeds up not only weight loss but also development. You body type doesn't mean shit in terms of whether you do cardio or not. As you do more exercise and increase the amount of time you spend in the gym, you need to also increase certain food intakes.

    4. Going to the gym, you should only be going in there for heavy lifting about 3 times a week. Maybe 4 pending on how you classify things. IF you do insist on everyday, you really should only be doing it for about an hour and then being highly cautious of what muscle groups you are doing. You must be careful to never overlap function or you risk muscle tears.

    5. Another reason you do not want to hit the gym everyday as you are is acclamation. The body does become accustomed to routine so as to maximize resources. At that point, you will cease any meaningful gains.

    6. Dont exhaust the muscle group. That does not accomplish anything aside from nerve damage (look it up, this isn't an exaggeration and a common cause of permanent injuries in novice lifters).

    7. Whatever you do, avoid chicken leg syndrome. You will be mocked to death by any serious fitness practitioners. While it is true you have leg exercises stated, you must not underestimate the appropriate potential of leg muscles. Its a common mistake.

  8. #48
    2. And what if TS wants to become big?
    3. No, cardio isnt necessary.
    4. Nothing wrong with going more than 3 times a week.
    5. No, the body doesnt get used to things as fast as you seem to think.

  9. #49
    High Overlord Cosima's Avatar
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    Vary between five, eight and 12 reps per exercise for five sets. If you want to work out six days a week, I suggest you get either a three or four-day split. A normal three-split would be something like biceps/back day one, triceps/chest day two, and legs/abs day three.

    Don't do drugs, it's fucking retarded. Eat a lot, and eat good.

    "No, cardio isn't necessary," - depends what your goal is. If all you care about are muscles and you don't actually want to be in decent physical shape, fine, go ahead and do no cardio. However, cardio and HIIT especially builds a strong heart that you'll benefit from until the day you die, and if you eat enough before and after it won't hurt your strenght training much at all.

    If your goal is to gain muscle, don't be afraid to gain some fat as well. To gain muscle (past a certain point, could write a fair few pages about this but it's of no use), you need to be on a calorie surplus, and while being on a calorie surplus you're going to gain a bit of fat as well. Best case would be about 10% fat 90% muscle.

    Good luck with your training.
    Cyclist. 175cm, 59kg. I generally spend 30% of my time working out, 40% on my education, 5% eating, and 25% doing other things.

    "Is man one of God’s blunders? Or is God one of man’s blunders?"

  10. #50
    You forgot shoulders in that 3 day split Cosima.

  11. #51
    Yeah too much too soon man, awesome enthusiasm but instead of sprinting into it and burning out keep that excitement factor and control it more, because you should only be doing 5-6 days a week if your on steroids or any other shit like that. Naturals only need to train 3-5 days a week and i know how amazing it is ive been traing a split schedule for just two years now.

    Some things to understand why we're saying slow down is:

    The first 6 months of training you will explode in weight and muscle mass, then you will hit a wall. What happens is you have..lets say hit your genetic 'ceiling' example, your muscles grow quicker than your tendons do, so once you swell and condition your muscles to their given limit by the size of your muscle bellies, you generally wont get any bigger or stronger for a little while, this is why its important to cycle through creatine and have zinc with a fatty steak before bed to break through those plateu's.

    But even then it comes slowly, when i first started i noticed every two weeks on the dumbbell shoulder presses i was going up in strength by two kilos each. So every fortnight i went from 16kgs, 18kgs, 20kgs, 24kgs, 26kgs, 28 and 30kgs all for 8-12 reps before failing, then at about the 4 - 5 months mark no matter what i did i just couldn't get past 32kgs for 4 reps. and two years later im quite strong on everything else but dont do dumbbell shoulder presses as religiously as i used to, now im having trouble getting 30kgs for 5-6 reps, work that out.

    So when we say you will burn out sometimes, you will, im going to uni this year for open foundation and hopefully might get into sports science next year, i love it, i can get abs from a cut phase if i want, i can tell you nearly anything to do with keeping yourself feeling full on a 900-1500 cal a day deficit, i can bulk up well enough that i can deadlift 185kgs and bench 110kgs (120kgs in off season, 84kgs, currently 73kgs) and even then theres some days its like the last place i wanna be, not that its a bad thing, just doing the same thing every day and only being able to tweak a workout once or twice in a month is just like doing dailies in wow sometimes lol.

    Honestly the most important thing i can say if your natural is count your CALORIES! EVERYDAY! MAKE A MEAL PLAN OFF IT! train your Calves HEAVY, 3 times a WEEK, Keep some light sets and heavy sets involves in your 8-12 rep sets (moderate) and train 4-5 days (4 if your going to do bench,squats and deadlifts in the same week) and you will grow.

    I stand at 6 ft, ecto-meso hybrid with small high peaking muscle bellies and small joints, can fluctuate easily between 71-85kgs. So you'll be fine if train diligently and smart.

    PS - DONT miss leg days!

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Eka View Post

    Workout A:
    Squat 5x5
    Bench Press 5x5
    Barbell Row 5x5
    Shrugs 3x8
    Triceps Extension 3x8
    Chin-ups/Olympic Bar Curls 3x8 (3xfailure on if doing chinups)
    Hyperextensions 2x10 (because workout B you do Deadlifts)
    Ab work 3x10-20

    Workout B:
    Squat 5x5
    Deadlifts 1x5
    Barbell Press 5x5
    Barbell Row (-10-20%~) 5x5
    Closegrip Bench press 3x8
    Olympic Bar Curls 3x8
    Ab work 3x10-20
    forum.bodybuilding. com/showthread.php?t=148036063&page=1

    Is all you need. Followed this about 8 months ago for 6 months, with proper nutrition you'll see amazing results. What you're seeing following your 6-day program are just noob gains. When you're new to training, no matter what you do at the gym will net results. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't follow a decent program. This will help you optimize your gains.

    If this is too much for you, you could try sticking to Starting Strength for about 3-6 months before switching to this program.

    Don't overdo it with lifting all out 5-6 times a week, especially at your current level. You'll just end up overtraining yourself, which has been mentioned here before.

  13. #53
    High Overlord Cosima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harzaka View Post
    You forgot shoulders in that 3 day split Cosima.
    Your shoulders will be just fine with military press, dips, upright rows, pull-ups etc.
    Cyclist. 175cm, 59kg. I generally spend 30% of my time working out, 40% on my education, 5% eating, and 25% doing other things.

    "Is man one of God’s blunders? Or is God one of man’s blunders?"

  14. #54
    I'd suggest looking around http://www.muscleandstrength.com/

    There is lots of workouts there for anything beginner to advanced.
    Modify what you find here and tailor it to yourself as you go along.
    Full body workouts 6 days a week is really bad. Ideally you go for full body for the first week or 2 of beginning you routine this is just to shock everything and get yourself prepared from there your looking at breaking it up into sections. If your wanna work out 7 days a week you gotta target certain areas 1 day then give that area at least 24 hours rest and while that area is resting you can train another area.
    I also recommend once you get going is to work drop sets and figure out a rep range to do them .....for example say your curling 45 pounds 12 times and then you cant possible push another rep drop to a 40 pound wieght and squeeze out a couple more then drop the wieght again and squeeze out a couple more.......once you've drop the wieght 3 times end that set. You'll get crazy results this way specially when your starting out.

    Anyways I also suggest looking outside of mmo-champion there is way to much crap information in these forums in regards to weight lifting and starting out you want to really go through serious stuff that has proven effective results and then figure out what works for you. You wont get the information you want in these forums you'll just get alot of confusion from p90x hopefuls.

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