I the idea behind 25-mans

[Dubalicious]

6 people is a raid, why not 10?

I think the point was that a 10 man "raid" *feels* more like a party, but you couldn't even make that argument/claim against a 25 man raid.

---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 04:30 PM ----------

How is it logical that harder bosses would need less people?

It's harder *BECAUSE* you have less people - it's the same boss otherwise.

[dokilar]

I'd rather have the wotlk system back, but with shared lockout.

i too would rather have kept the wotlk raid model, i thought it was fairly balanced and ive never quite understood blizzards claim that "people felt obligated to do both since there were 2 different lockouts" argument.

obviously my opinion and data is just from the small pool of my friends and those on my server but i never heard anyone complaining that they felt forced or absolutely had to do both lockouts. in fact it was the complete opposite for our guild. we always did 10 mans on friday or saturdays and the option of doing a 25 man pug was there for anyone lookin to grab extra pieces to help with the 10 man progression.

just my .02

[Arainie]

By that logic you'd eventually end up with the theoretically beatable but practically unbeatable single player raid mode after having stepped up in difficulty from 25->10->5->3->1!

Nawh please, there's nothing epic about killing a boss with 5-10 players IMO. 25 or even possibly 40 (but the logistical issues are far too big not to mention the pc requirements most raiders wouldn't meet) is my preference, and I couldn't give a rats behind about anything but heroic modes!

[Asmekiel]

For me it's the other way around actually. 25s is where it's at, the real boss in all it's glory, so strong that you need 25 of the best heroes in the world to defeat him. When he's having a bad day or doesn't want to fight for whatever reason you go there with 10 people. That sounds much more logical to me.

[Hakto]

For me it's the other way around actually. 25s is where it's at, the real boss in all it's glory, so strong that you need 25 of the best heroes in the world to defeat him. When he's having a bad day or doesn't want to fight for whatever reason you go there with 10 people. That sounds much more logical to me.

Exactly the way I see things.

[Flaks]

Lore wise this suggestion makes perfect sense and was probably the reason for 10 man raids and 25 man raids being completely different in tBC. (opposite of what you suggested but the same idea overall).

But it just can't work in the current "raiding model". The current game doesn't give two shits about lore or feeling and is all about optimizing things.

[Archdruid Dehydrate]

Worst idea of the month. How did you even come up with something terrible like this?

This topic wont last long its just ready to bait in the 25 vs 10 talk.

[Chief Brouhaha]

That would be a disaster. It has been proven that changing the logistics of how raid groups should be formed is a nightmare for all players and employees of blizzard.

[Emek]

Absolutely HATE this idea, not that it would EVER happen, I wouldn't play the game if it were the case

[dokhidamo]

You have no idea how Blizz balances things if you think a 40-man encounter with 10-man health would be anything but a faceroll.

[Espe]

That would make 10's much harder and still give the same loot.
I doubt people would enjoy that.

This is how the game is already designed. 10m requires much, much more executional skill (i.e. once you step foot into the actual raid instance) than 25m.

Check my sig for more info.

[skitzy129]

With 25s currently being way too easy and enforcing very little personal responsibility, I'm not entirely opposed to the concept behind the OPs argument. Although I feel it should be done differently in execution.

Either that or 25 mans need a tune up right now because they're absurdly faceroll for DPS and Healers.

[checking facts]

Logically speaking, it isn't a bad idea at all (say, if this was a brand new game or something)

Practically, it's just. . . Unnecessary (that's the nicest word I can come up with!)

yeah, pretty much (I'm the OP, for those who didn't notice it).

I'm not invoking blizzard and asking them to do it. doing it right now after everybody got used to the idea that "real raiding is 25-man" would piss many people off. I'm just saying that if I were making WoW from scratch and starting it on vanilla with 3 difficulties, I'd do it like this. logically speaking, if you need more people to kill the same guy, it means those people were weaker.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 12:01 AM ----------

For me it's the other way around actually. 25s is where it's at, the real boss in all it's glory, so strong that you need 25 of the best heroes in the world to defeat him. When he's having a bad day or doesn't want to fight for whatever reason you go there with 10 people. That sounds much more logical to me.

so, when I killed the lich king, did he have diarrhea?

[StationaryHawk]

It's a gameplay mechanic.

[Hakto]

This is how the game is already designed. 10m requires much, much more executional skill (i.e. once you step foot into the actual raid instance) than 25m.

Check my sig for more info.

not even going there, and why did you bring in the 10 vs 25 debate into this thread?

[whoranzone]

if I were WoW's lead game designer, I'd do it like this:

Luckily enough you aren't.

[Keoren]

Check my sig for more info.

Wasn't that statement about LFR? It is a whole different animal.

I don't see any point in bringing up the 10 vs 25 debate here.

[Hakto]

Wasn't that statement about LFR? It is a whole different animal.

I don't see any point in bringing up the 10 vs 25 debate here.

Of course it's about LFR, people just like to take statements out of context and use them for their own aganda.

[skitzy129]

Of course it's about LFR, people just like to take statements out of context and use them for their own aganda.

That statement is still entirely true about current 25man raiding.

Its absurdly easier than 10 man at the moment, especially for DPS.

The next tier needs to be tuned about as hard as 10 man was this tier and quite a bit harder than 25 man was this tier.

[Hakto]

That statement is still entirely true about current 25man raiding.

Its absurdly easier than 10 man at the moment, especially for DPS.

The next tier needs to be tuned about as hard as 10 man was this tier and quite a bit harder than 25 man was this tier.

'Absurdly' - please link your character that has done significant 10 and 25 bosses of the current tier.

Our experience is dps requirements of both Elegon and Gara'jal are easier on 10.

Edit: I am not trying to make the case one is harder or easier than the other: simply that broad sweeping statements like the one I quoted are grossly incorrect.