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  1. #1

    H Wind lord- Healing issue or Quickening issues

    Hello everyone. My ten man guild has killed the first 4 H in MSV and is currently on H Wind Lord, whom we have been told by many is one of the easiest heroics out there. However we are having problems with tank deaths. We are running with 3 healers and 1 tank, so I feel like this really shouldn't be an issue. We have a Disc, Hpal and either a 2nd Hpal or RSham depending on the day; all of which are pretty good players. Tank deaths only seem to occur when all 6 adds are up. I have noticed that it is not uncommon for a stack or two of quickening being up. So, are these deaths likely due to quickening or a failure on the part of the healers?

    The Hpal tried both SS and EF specs but thinks that EF is more balanced overall and that with 3 healers SS shouldn't be needed. We thus had the Rsham mostly on the tank throwing a couple heals to the raid during rain of blades, and the Hpal and Disc putting about 40-50% of their healing on the tank and the rest on raid. We have gotten it down to ~40% and would have had it but I think dispells went to shit when the adds respawned.

    Any thoughts, tips etc are appreciated! Thanks.

    PS We are cc'ing all 3 amber trappers, throwing bops on people who get korthik strike that don't have a strong personal up.

  2. #2
    If you're one tanking and don't get quickening dispelled immediately you're going to have tank deaths.

  3. #3
    Dispels are fairly important. 2 stacks can wipe you pretty easily. You have at least 1 Mass Dispel. That should be used on cooldown. If you have a Shadow Priest as well, they should just rotate MDs. Otherwise, someone with an offensive dispel needs to tab through when MD isn't up.

    Logs would be helpful.

  4. #4
    As as tank on this fight I can assure you that if you don't stay on top of quickening stacks you are fucked.

    You really need a dps with an offensive dispel to dispel adds all the time while menders are up in my experience. This isn't a dps race, its a mechanics fight and "not getting the tank gibbed by 6 adds doing 70% more dmg" is a core mechanic!
    40% is normally a tough time on this fight because the menders are at about 20-30% health, the tank is out of cd's and getting smacked really hard. If you can get the menders down a second time it should be a kill.

  5. #5
    I am not the RL and for some reason he didn't post logs for the raid from last night otherwise I would have posted them. We do not have a Spriest, the disc is MD'ing when he can but he claims he was OOM by 40% doing that... We have mages to spell steal as well though, so I think it shouldn't be an issue.

  6. #6
    What class is your tank, and who's the offtank?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by jasputan View Post
    I am not the RL and for some reason he didn't post logs for the raid from last night otherwise I would have posted them. We do not have a Spriest, the disc is MD'ing when he can but he claims he was OOM by 40% doing that... We have mages to spell steal as well though, so I think it shouldn't be an issue.
    Is your Disc Atonement healing during Recklessness? It's way more mana efficient, more healing, and the extra damage is legit. MDing shouldn't oom him that quickly.

  8. #8
    So, just to put things in perspective, Quickening on heroic increase damage and attack speed by 35%. Due to the way those two difference increases interact, it actually amounts to an 82.25% DPS increase from those mobs. No amount of healing skill in the world can make up for your tank taking 82% or 160% more damage than normal.

  9. #9
    You definitely need to have quickening dispelled asap,....no tank will live through 2 stacks of it and 1 stack is going to hurt a lot. On top of the already tremendous dmg they are taking you need to have your priest play a bit better. Or disc did this last night and granted he messed up here and there but having our Boomkin symbiosis him as a mass dispel backup was the difference.

  10. #10
    What are your tanks? Pallies are really amazing on this fight.
    But yeah, quickening is really bad on blade masters and the boss. Menders it doesn't matter as much

  11. #11
    Without logs it's hard to say, but in my experience if the tank is dying it's a dispel issue (possibly also healers prioritizing poorly/not using cds liberally), if people are dying from rain it's a healing issue. Your disc will cry that he's going oom if he has to solo mass dispel do it, but it's well worth it either way (assuming that you get the quickenings dispelled it's easy to 2 heal). Just have him dispel, atonement during reck with some spirit shelling before rain and he's easily pulling his weight.

  12. #12
    Disc is atonement healing for recklessness. We use a DK tank, unfortunately we don't have a pally tank. Yeah I think people just really need to prioritize dispelling more since it is not a DPS race. The only person who would sometimes die during rain was the tank, and that is probably a quickening thing. We don't have a boomkin or spriest so it is a bit hard on the disc to mass dispel, but the mages and even rsham can help out more.. Thanks for the info everyone. I appreciate it.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    So, just to put things in perspective, Quickening on heroic increase damage and attack speed by 35%. Due to the way those two difference increases interact, it actually amounts to an 82.25% DPS increase from those mobs. No amount of healing skill in the world can make up for your tank taking 82% or 160% more damage than normal.
    189% extra damage for 2-stacks of Quickening actually, because it's 70% increased attack speed and damage. 1.7 x 1.7 = 2.89

    To put this into perspective, all the adds are doing nearly three times their normal no quickening damage. This is the equivalent of your tank tanking 3 Wind Lords, 9 Blademasters and 9 Battle-Menders.

  14. #14
    Moonkin Symbiosis Shaman and spam those purges. Make him a dispel-bot!

  15. #15
    Pit Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirri View Post
    Moonkin Symbiosis Shaman and spam those purges. Make him a dispel-bot!

    That would be a bad idea.. the boomkin gets mass dispell from priest.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    That would be a bad idea.. the boomkin gets mass dispell from priest.
    With a minute cd though, so there's some merit to getting purge instead, but yeah, symbiosis md is better unless you have massive quickening issues (and if so kick your priest:P).

  17. #17
    There should be zero stacks of Quickening up at any given time. If you're not actively dispelling them constantly, then you're doing it wrong. Your tanks will die even if you bring a raid full of nothing but healers. Having one up for a bit because you're going through the dispelling is fine. Having two is unacceptable.

    Also, drop to two healers. There's not enough damage in the fight to warrant three. Provided your tank isn't an idiot, any tank death is going to be a dispel issue, and not a healing issue that can be solved by adding a third.

  18. #18
    We have 1 person assigned to each CC target, we then have 1 person inc tank assigned to the menders + interupts. After that our 3rd healer (Rsham) has a focus of single targetting the blademasters and purging them individually, this coupled with our priests mass dispell seems to remove most of the quickenings, oh and our mage who was on CC duty would also spellsteal any quickening on the boss.
    I would like to add, using this tactic of 1 tank, 3 healers we did have a few tank deaths until we were more prepared, most of these deaths came when the menders or blades were rejoining the pack (6 adds etc) but after a few wipes we made sure this was always called for cooldowns to be used etc and to make sure those with target assignments could make sure they had refocused a target for interupts again.
    I found being an elemental sham that focusing on a mender was ideal for me, 1) I could interupt and 2) I could purge my adds quickening.
    Keeping everyone happy is impossible.

    Kesandri Level 90 Shaman
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    Ashlinn Level 90 Mage
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  19. #19
    Without knowing your entire raid setup or seeing any logs its hard to give good feedback. But I would say in general that, as others have pointed out, it's due to the quickening buff. Your priest will have to MD and he is def able to do so, yes it drains a healing priests mana, but not to the extent of ooming him. Along with that have every other member of the raid capable of dispelling do so. Mage, Shaman, Hunter, DK Glyph, Warrior tank glyph etc etc. And coordinate so they dont use it at the same time as the priest.
    Example: Quickening 1 = Priest MD. Quickening 2 = Raid single target dispel. Rinse n repeat.

  20. #20
    using a DK tank is your problem, they're terrible for this fight (we 1 tank, 3 heal it, with healers dpsing during recklessness). shield barrier is op for this fight as it scales with attack power (and thus vengeance). i'd recommend using a warrior tank and /lol as you find it so much easier.
    Last edited by Ylera; 2013-02-02 at 05:10 PM.

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