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  1. #21
    The only dumb thing I've seen so far with the new system is gaining LP when you're trying to jump up a tier (say, Silver --> Gold). I'm currently on 97 LP Silver I, and the last 4 games have each given me 2 (two) LP. So I'm basically going to have to win 5 in a row, AND THEN win a best of 3/5 series. I'm sure I can do it, but jesus, one loss thrown in there \is going to sink 4-5 games worth of progress, which seems ridiculous.

    I get that once you're Gold it's permanent, so it has to be difficult, but having a win for a measly 2 LP just seems silly. I haven't lost one yet, will be interesting to see how much I lose at this point.

    EDIT: Even nicer, I just got 1 (one) LP for a win. Up to 98, joy oh joy.
    Last edited by Hateful; 2013-02-04 at 03:43 AM.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Hateful View Post
    The only dumb thing I've seen so far with the new system is gaining LP when you're trying to jump up a tier (say, Silver --> Gold). I'm currently on 97 LP Silver I, and the last 4 games have each given me 2 (two) LP. So I'm basically going to have to win 5 in a row, AND THEN win a best of 3/5 series. I'm sure I can do it, but jesus, one loss thrown in there \is going to sink 4-5 games worth of progress, which seems ridiculous.

    I get that once you're Gold it's permanent, so it has to be difficult, but having a win for a measly 2 LP just seems silly. I haven't lost one yet, will be interesting to see how much I lose at this point.

    EDIT: Even nicer, I just got 1 (one) LP for a win. Up to 98, joy oh joy.
    wtf, i've never won under 25LP for a win, and i did change tiers.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by sarasun View Post
    wtf, i've never won under 25LP for a win, and i did change tiers.
    Which tier did you change from?

    And I never ended up losing, wins all the way to gold!!! Think it was a 12 in a row streak, had a 10 in a row streak a few days ago to get me up to Silver I. From there it was W-L-W-L for 5-6 games then all the way up to gold where I was in the preseason!

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  4. #24
    I am Murloc! Grading's Avatar
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    It's because your ranked matchmaking rating thinks you shouldn't be as high as you are, that you are gaining less points. Just keep winning games and it'll stabilize itself.

    Though I think Riot have admitted to points not working exactly as intended, but I'm not sure.

  5. #25
    I dont feel like im playing in elo hell with one of my accounts anymore but then again ppl are still trying to say that they typed out top first so therefore they deserve it.
    Last edited by stomination; 2013-02-04 at 07:10 AM.

  6. #26
    I strongly dislike the new system.

    Before I share my experience i want to just say, I know i'm a baddie. My win ratio is 50%. I am in Bronze Division V.

    Ok so I worked my way up to 100 points, got into the "win 2 out of 3 and you move up" series. First game had someone AFK/DC. Ok, i've got 2 more chances right? Second game had someone AFK/DC. Back to where I started. Worked my way up to 100 points again and this time I made it..

    Now, here is where my story gets soul crushing. I thought I had made it.. I thought I had worked, clawed and scraped my way out of Division V. I was in Division IV and beginning my long road up and forward. Well, no, that's not what happened. The next two games were losses and I am now back in Division V.

    The entire day, with all of my effort, was for nothing. Even with more wins than losses and a 5 game win streak, I am right back where I started.

    Having a 50% win ratio should not guarantee you a permanent seat in Bronze Division V. I can not learn. I can not evolve, I can not progress or advance my skill where I am at. There's too many people playing there that have daddy issues and are so full of rage and emotion they can't think straight for 30 minutes if one single person says or does something they don't like.

    A 3 game series to advance a bracket is like making me play 2-3 games but not gain ELO for them, to see if I can continue to gain ELO while I could easily continue to lose it. How does that make any sense? Now.. if they made it so that you can't drop down in Divisions then that would make sense. It would mean I can get better and climb up but I can't be dragged down by AFKs/DCs

    I don't mind it being hard, and hell I guess I don't mind if I am stuck in Bronze V for ever, just don't promote me when I get a lucky 5 game win streak and then rip IV away from me again after 2 games of fail..

    Well, that's about all I have to say about it I guess.. I hate it and it needs to die. Bronze V 4 Life!
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  7. #27
    Epic! Riboe's Avatar
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    @Judson:
    It seems like you're one of those who (currently) belong right on the edge of Division V / Division IV.
    The fact that it only took two losses for you to get demoted back to Division V, suggests that your MMR (Matchmaking Rating, has replaced Elo) is only a few points from Division IV.
    Just improve slightly and you'll end up in Division IV and it'll then take far more losses for you to get demoted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Judson View Post
    Having a 50% win ratio should not guarantee you a permanent seat in Bronze Division V. I can not learn. I can not evolve, I can not progress or advance my skill where I am at. There's too many people playing there that have daddy issues and are so full of rage and emotion they can't think straight for 30 minutes if one single person says or does something they don't like.
    I do wanna say something abut the above quote:
    Remember that everyone who's currently in a higher Division/Tier, started out where you are now. Tons of people have fought their way into a higher Division/Tier.
    If you're unable to learn or advance where you are now, you truly belong there.

    I'm not being mean, just stating a fact.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Riboe View Post
    Remember that everyone who's currently in a higher Division/Tier, started out where you are now.
    You couldn't be more wrong than you are right now. This is not true, not in the slightest. Everyone did not start out at the bottom of the ELO pool, or in Bronze V, and work their way up out of there. I know this for a fact because even I myself did not start out there and the 5 or so buddies that I have that play did not start out there and they have never been there.

    I usually played ranked while drinking so when I first started ranked in the first season i was 1200ish. Then in the second season I was 1kish. Before it changed over to Leagues and MMR from ELO I was going back and forth from 700ish to 900ish.

    You don't start that low, you don't start in Bronze V, you fall there. Once the claws of fail grab you they drag you down no matter how well you perform, If you're doing well someone will rage and afk. If you're up for promotion someone will DC. If you're being helpful and a good team mate someone will troll.

    I'm not upset about where I am at, I have come to terms with it and even embraced and accepted it a little. I am just very disappointed with the new system and how well it is designed to keep players down.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-04 at 08:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Riboe View Post
    If you're unable to learn or advance where you are now, you truly belong there.

    I'm not being mean, just stating a fact.
    It's ok, i'm not offended. You're wrong though. What do you think I should be learning from my experience in Bronze V? How to troll? How to be toxic? Maybe I will learn that awesome AD Annie jungle that all the pro kids are doing when someone upsets them.
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  9. #29
    Epic! Riboe's Avatar
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    I actually thought Bronze V was higher.. My bad.

    But my previous statement still stands:
    Quote Originally Posted by Riboe View Post
    If you're unable to learn or advance where you are now, you truly belong there.
    A troll or an AFK'er can never stop you from learning. They might force you to learn something else or in another way, but they're not preventing you from learning.

    Also, statistically the enemy team will have more trolls than your team, unless you're a troll.

    EDIT: Kinda relevant: http://clgaming.net/redtracker/51634...et-troll-picks

    Speaking of what you can learn? If you really want to advance on to a higher Tier or Division, you'll figure out how to minimize the impact that the trolls or bad players have on the match. I've done it.
    What worked for me was to always try to get mid (my best lane), if I couldn't, I'd pick whatever the team needed.
    I also do my best to remain positive and to boost the team morale whenever it's needed.
    4v5 wins are possible. Winning with a bot who fed the enemy ADC 10 kills after 8 minutes is also possible. I've done it more than once.

    Now I'm at Silver I. A good attitude and such isn't enough to get me higher anymore. I need to get better. I'm sure if I got mid every game, I'd get to Gold V or IV easily... But I don't get mid that often. So I have to become as good at every other role, as I am at mid.
    I'm almost there. Only need ADC and top and I'm sure I'll be able to reach Gold in no time.

    If you honestly believe you're doing everything you can to keep yourself and the team positive and you still can't advance, then there's only one thing left to do:
    Become a better player.
    The sooner you realize that you're not skilled enough to advance, the sooner you can get more skilled and then advance.
    Last edited by Riboe; 2013-02-04 at 01:51 PM.
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  10. #30

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Riboe View Post
    @Judson:The fact that it only took two losses for you to get demoted back to Division V, suggests that your MMR (Matchmaking Rating, has replaced Elo) is only a few points from Division IV.
    I'm not sure how that matters. When I got to IV I had 0 points, like everyone else that just got there. Two losses in a row dropped me back, does it not do that for everyone? Are there people that advance from V to IV and lose 3 or 4 in a row and don't drop back down?

    The fact that I dropped after losing two in a row, from being fresh there with 0 points, means that there is basically a hidden depth to the series. You don't just have to win 2 out of 3 to advance from V to IV but you have to win more like 4/5 or you are right back at V and those 5 games were for nothing. At least with ELO I would have gained something for the 2-3 series games.
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  12. #32
    Epic! Riboe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judson View Post
    I'm not sure how that matters. When I got to IV I had 0 points, like everyone else that just got there. Two losses in a row dropped me back, does it not do that for everyone? Are there people that advance from V to IV and lose 3 or 4 in a row and don't drop back down?

    The fact that I dropped after losing two in a row, from being fresh there with 0 points, means that there is basically a hidden depth to the series. You don't just have to win 2 out of 3 to advance from V to IV but you have to win more like 4/5 or you are right back at V and those 5 games were for nothing. At least with ELO I would have gained something for the 2-3 series games.
    Your LP has absolutely nothing to do with getting demoted.

    Whether or not you get demoted is based entirely on your MMR (Matchmaking Rating), which is hidden. You can have 0 LP, lose 15 games in a row and still not get demoted, if your MMR is high enough.

    EDIT:
    As for the bolded part: You still gain something. You gain MMR.

    The higher MMR you have, the more LP you'll gain for a win. Keep in mind that LP gains also depend on your current Tier and Division.

    So if you're in Bronze V, but have a MMR that suggests you should be in Silver V, you'll earn LP much faster, in order to get you to Silver V quickly.
    Last edited by Riboe; 2013-02-04 at 04:43 PM.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Riboe View Post
    Your LP has absolutely nothing to do with getting demoted.

    Whether or not you get demoted is based entirely on your MMR (Matchmaking Rating), which is hidden. You can have 0 LP, lose 15 games in a row and still not get demoted, if your MMR is high enough.

    EDIT:
    As for the bolded part: You still gain something. You gain MMR.

    The higher MMR you have, the more LP you'll gain for a win. Keep in mind that LP gains also depend on your current Tier and Division.

    So if you're in Bronze V, but have a MMR that suggests you should be in Silver V, you'll earn LP much faster, in order to get you to Silver V quickly.
    Exactly. Sadly most people wont understand how MMR works (look at wow arena...) but it's even worse for LoL because your MMR isn't shown which makes the uninformed rage at LP and claim that LP gains/losses are irrational.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Riboe View Post
    As for the bolded part: You still gain something. You gain MMR.

    The higher MMR you have, the more LP you'll gain for a win. Keep in mind that LP gains also depend on your current Tier and Division.

    So if you're in Bronze V, but have a MMR that suggests you should be in Silver V, you'll earn LP much faster, in order to get you to Silver V quickly.
    Ahh sweet, thank you I did not realize that part.


    It still feels like a bad system. People can say "you are where you're supposed to be" and I don't disagree. They can also say "you can climb out" because some people have.. That doesn't change the fact that you have better scores when you play with better players. So, from an individual point of view, it's holding me back.

    I'm not positive if ignoring people makes it so that I don't ever get them in my team again, but in case that works I have started ignoring every troll and toxic player I run in to on both my team and the enemies team, every game.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-04 at 03:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by meteo View Post
    Exactly. Sadly most people wont understand how MMR works (look at wow arena...) but it's even worse for LoL because your MMR isn't shown which makes the uninformed rage at LP and claim that LP gains/losses are irrational.


    Ehh.. You make it seem like you use LP to advance and MMR to fall. If I wasn't at 0 LP I wouldn't have dropped from IV to V.


    I'm happy with how much LP I gain per win. I'm comfortable with how much I lose when I lose. I'm just not comfortable with going on a 5 win streak to get to a new Division and then losing 2 and falling back. Don't care if it's MMR or LP, it's stupid. Having to win 6 out of 7 games to advance from the very, very bottom, is a bit extreme.
    Last edited by Judson; 2013-02-04 at 08:30 PM.
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  15. #35
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    If you play with better players, you will likely also run into better players. If you are not that good, you will get stomped.

    *shrug*

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    If you play with better players, you will likely also run into better players. If you are not that good, you will get stomped.

    *shrug*
    When I play with my buddies that are 1400ish I do fine. True, some games I do get stomped, but most games I do well. Not well enough to convince them to duo que with me though.

    I still think my points are pretty valid. You shouldn't have to win 6 out of every 7 games just to slightly move up from the very bottom. 4 ouf ot 7 games should be sufficient to not remain at the very bottom. The new system makes it so that not even 5 out of 7 will give you progression and we aren't talking about high end stuff here, this is as low as it gets.
    Last edited by Judson; 2013-02-04 at 10:43 PM.
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  17. #37
    Epic! Riboe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judson View Post
    When I play with my buddies that are 1400ish I do fine. True, some games I do get stomped, but most games I do well. Not well enough to convince them to duo que with me though.

    I still think my points are pretty valid. You shouldn't have to win 6 out of every 7 games just to slightly move up from the very bottom. 4 ouf ot 7 games should be sufficient to not remain at the very bottom. The new system makes it so that not even 5 out of 7 will give you progression and we aren't talking about high end stuff here, this is as low as it gets.
    As far as I know, your win ratio doesn't have to be ridiculously high in order to move up the ladder. I can't speak for myself, as I haven't lost yet, but a friend of mine won 2 games, then lost 2. He still ended up gaining more LP than he lost.
    50% win ratio and he still moved up the ladder. Not much, but still.

    I suspect it's because his MMR suggests that he should be in a higher Division, which means a 50% win ratio is enough to move him up there. If he keeps that 50% win ratio, his MMR will likely go down until he will gain as much LP as he lose.

    So, just guessing, but I'll say that your MMR suggests you belong in Bronze V, which is why you need a higher win ratio to move up the ladder. As soon as the system gains more confidence in you, you'll gain more LP and lose less. You simply need to prove to the system that you belong in a higher Division / Tier.
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  18. #38
    Anyone who complains about the new system clearly just doesn't get it, and rather try to explain it to you I am just going to say "farewell" because no matter how good you THINK you play, your attitude sucks and you make ranking up and just playing in general a dismal experience.

  19. #39
    Legendary! Falco Lombardi's Avatar
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    Looking at it again, I think it's okay. It's not supposed to be easy to get to the next league, you win 5 and then lose one and subtract around two wins worth of points for the loss. It's a trade off with the new system. ELO it was more win 2/3 and you'd keep moving up etc.
    I'll take the sky any day.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Riboe View Post
    So, just guessing, but I'll say that your MMR suggests you belong in Bronze V
    Yes sir and that is cool with me but think about what you're saying. Because the game thinks I am bad, I have to have a higher win ratio than non-bads, just to move up from the lowest possible position.

    Game: "Judson, you are terrible, so we expect and require more from you than we do from others."

    Also, news flash for some of the others posting in this thread.. I don't have to think I should be in a higher League in order to dislike the system.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 08:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Brown Eye View Post
    Anyone who complains about the new system clearly just doesn't get it, and rather try to explain it to you I am just going to say "farewell" because no matter how good you THINK you play, your attitude sucks and you make ranking up and just playing in general a dismal experience.
    Orly? Pretty bold claims there.

    You most definitely must be talking to me seeing as how I am one of the posters complaining about the new system.

    How do you know i'm not one of those guys that is happy filling which ever role is left empty, stays calm/quiet and is only ever rude to people being douches? Additionally, I have never claimed to be good.

    There goes your logic, right out the window.
    Last edited by Judson; 2013-02-06 at 01:28 AM.
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