Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
LastLast
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Judson View Post
    Yes sir and that is cool with me but think about what you're saying. Because the game thinks I am bad, I have to have a higher win ratio than non-bads, just to move up from the lowest possible position.

    Game: "Judson, you are terrible, so we expect and require more from you than we do from others."

    Also, news flash for some of the others posting in this thread.. I don't have to think I should be in a higher League in order to dislike the system.
    Its the same damn system... just a wee bit harder to push into the next bracket. Once you do though (if you truly belong there) you can't ever be moved into a lower bracket.

    It sounds like you are mad because the system is telling you, you are worse than you think you really are. All I can say is tough break, prove it wrong. Cuz complaining about it certainly isn't going to change it.

    Or just play normals... because unless you are going pro (and lets face it clearly you aren't) at some point the ranked system is going to place you somewhere you actually belong at which point (unless you decide to get any better) your win:loss ratio is going to be 1:1 whether thats Bronze V or Diamond I.

    I honestly and truthfully don't understand posts like these. So you're a Bronze I player... whats the big deal... there are a lot of you. I myself am only a Silver II. It not great... hell thats not even good. My win:loss ratio is like 1.1:1. Own it, its where you belong and its where you are going to play with people more your skill level. Its supposed to make it more fair. Its not about bragging rights or the things you earn from being high ranked. Its about matchmaking. Again OWN it there are a lot of people in your bracket. No one is calling you bad, the game is not calling you bad. Its just the place where you are going to have the most fairly matched games.

    The 'retards' and 'baddies' and 'trolls' you play with are in every bracket. Hell look at the guys that just got themselves kicked out of the tournament for their in game behavior. Do they win alot... hell yes. But they troll a ton. The kind of behavior that really tears other people down and makes them either perform badly, or make them purposely want to perform badly.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 06:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Judson View Post
    When I play with my buddies that are 1400ish I do fine. True, some games I do get stomped, but most games I do well. Not well enough to convince them to duo que with me though.

    I still think my points are pretty valid. You shouldn't have to win 6 out of every 7 games just to slightly move up from the very bottom. 4 ouf ot 7 games should be sufficient to not remain at the very bottom. The new system makes it so that not even 5 out of 7 will give you progression and we aren't talking about high end stuff here, this is as low as it gets.
    I wasn't actually talking to you specifically... but I'll bite anyway.

    Your friends from a 1400 ELO (which is 100 less than the starting 1500) won't even duo queue with you. That says a lot right there.

    I don't know where you are getting this you have to win 5/7 or 6/7 games to progress. Thats garbage. You quite literally only need a 2:1 win:loss ratio to advance. Thats it. Absolutely obtainable if you are better than you originally place, OR if you are getting better and advancing your skill level.
    Last edited by Bilbo Baggins; 2013-02-06 at 01:40 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Brown Eye View Post
    Its the same damn system... just a wee bit harder to push into the next bracket. Once you do though (if you truly belong there) you can't ever be moved into a lower bracket.
    If the goal of MMR is to get you to a 1:1 ratio and you have to win approximately 6 out of 7 games to truely advance then how does this system make sense to you? Just be realistic for a second and lets walk through it. You have to win a few games to get to the 100 points. Let's be conservative and say you have to win 2 in a row to hit the 100. Obviously you have to win any game that gets you close, then the one that gives you 100 points. So there you go, we're up to 2 so far. Now you have to win 2 out of 3. If you lose one of those that's 3 games for a total of 5 games so far. Now you have just gotten to a new Division and you have to win one of the next two games or you will liley get demoted back. So, you have to win 5 (or in my case 6) out of 7 games to see any kind of progression in a system that does it's best to get you to a 50% win ratio.

    The truth that you won't admit is the string of luck required. Luck not getting afkers, trolls, or ragers, for 7 games in a row. Skill is almost irrelevant for the average, non-douche, at Bronze V.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Brown Eye View Post
    It sounds like you are mad because the system is telling you, you are worse than you think you really are. All I can say is tough break, prove it wrong. Cuz complaining about it certainly isn't going to change it.
    It sounds like you are a moron because I have stated previously that I don't have any delusions that I'm some kind of amazing player. Since you can't read and you like to assume things about people all I can say is tough break.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Brown Eye View Post
    I honestly and truthfully don't understand posts like these.
    I honestly and truthfully don't understand post like these.





    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Brown Eye View Post
    No one is calling you bad, the game is not calling you bad.
    +
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Brown Eye View Post
    It sounds like you are mad because the system is telling you, you are worse than you think you really are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Brown Eye View Post
    The 'retards' and 'baddies' and 'trolls' you play with are in every bracket.
    They are extra special here in Bronze but this is the least retarded thing you have said so I just wanted to point out that I understand they are everywhere.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 09:41 PM ----------

    @ Dark Brown Eye

    Since you like to assume things about others I will give you one of my own. You are one of those raging players, the emo guys that flip out every time anyone dies for any reason. Then every time you die it's 4 other peoples fault. It's players like you that make the game less enjoyable for others, right?

    I am guessing these things because you came into a thread where people discuss their dislikes with the new system, just to tell anyone here that it's not possible for us to dislike the new system. We can't have any issues with the new system because it's perfect. We are obviously just all upset with where we are and think we should be in the Platinum and Challenger Leagues.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 09:51 PM ----------

    Imagine if WOW had a League/Division system on top of MMR for arena and RBGs.

    When your team gets to 1000, 1400, 1800, 2200 or 2600 it has to win 3 out of 5 games in order to advance to the next League. Throw in some 2 out of 3 every 100 points for the Divisons and now we've got a nice big pile of fail for an arena system.

    MMR encouraging matches with equally skilled players giving you a 50% win rate with a system overlapping that requires burst of win streaks 5-7 games long for advancement. Yeah that wouldn't be a headache at all.

    And of course if you complained about it you would have "dirty assholes" like Dark Brown Eye telling you how you can't possibly dislike the system you are actually just unhappy with where you are.

    [infracted. please do not insult other posters. -Tziva]
    Last edited by Tziva; 2013-02-06 at 06:37 AM.
    armory - wowheroes - wowprogress
    Are you looking for a 25man raiding guild? We raid on US - Thunderhorn from 8-11 server time Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday nights. Check us out at http://www.twilight-alliance.com

  3. #43
    You are just raging and your nitpicking quote after quote after quote of my responses show just how angry you are.

    Your delusion may not be about your skill level. Your delusion is that no matter where you place you should constantly be improving your rank based simply on the fact that you play a lot. This is not true.

    If you are not getting better as a player you are not advancing. Period. And (yup I started a sentence with 'And' what up) contrary to popular belief you don't always get better the more you play.

    1) Your math is wrong its a 2:1 win ratio to advance. your 5/7 is a 5:2 ratio or a 2.5:1... which is more than you need.
    2) Your example of WoW is ironic, because the same company currently uses THIS NEW SYSTEM for Starcraft 2. Also you cannot solo queue for arenas or RBG. Also your example of WoW tells me you are used to getting more simply based on the time you put in.
    3) Stop being mad for a second. [Take a breath!] (Are you ready?) Admit that luck and AFKers are not in every game. They are not in most games. They are present in more than I would like (but what are WE really gonna do about that?) but those people would effect our/your rank regardless of whether or not it was this system or ELO.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 07:34 PM ----------

    The issue here is how you look at it.

    I look at it as a matchmaking tool.

    You look at it as something to be earned.
    Last edited by Bilbo Baggins; 2013-02-06 at 03:35 AM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Brown Eye View Post
    Your delusion may not be about your skill level. Your delusion is that no matter where you place you should constantly be improving your rank based simply on the fact that you play a lot. This is not true.
    Seems to be the main issue for most people. Playing game after game after game is not a guarantee that you will be 'moving up'. If you're not better than those you are playing with (and typically ALOT better, not just 50 elo better) you will not move anywhere. If you're continuously stuck playing promotional series to get into the next division, it means your MMR is most likely perfectly placed between the 2 divisions.

    Judson, the main problem I see with your attitude is this here from your OP:

    Quote Originally Posted by Judson View Post
    Having a 50% win ratio should not guarantee you a permanent seat in Bronze Division V. I can not learn. I can not evolve, I can not progress or advance my skill where I am at. There's too many people playing there that have daddy issues and are so full of rage and emotion they can't think straight for 30 minutes if one single person says or does something they don't like.
    A 50% win ratio should damn well guarantee you a 'permanent' seat in ANY division, let alone Bronze V. If your winrate is 60%+, you should have a good chance of rising. If your winrate is 70%+, it should be a walk in the park. I don't see how having a perfectly equal win:loss ratio at all entitles you to rise up the ranking system. In fact, having a 50:50 ratio means you are being placed in the perfect position for your level of skill. That does NOT make you 'bad', and nobody is calling you a baddie. That is just the reality of the situation: your skill level is not as high as those above you, on average. That's it.

    Saying that you can't possible improve because those around you are, in your belief, worse than you, is mind boggling. Do you need to play with TPA to improve your gameplay? Must you be placed with Silver players to have any chance of 'getting better'? That's ridiculous. I am always learning, no matter who I'm playing, no matter whether its a ranked or a normal. Are you playing this game to enjoy it, or are you playing it to be good at it? There's a difference, and I see so many people thinking that if they just have fun they will rise. No, you need to actually research, practice and look to always be improving to rise.

    One thing I would truly recommend, not just for you but for any player, is not to play an enormous slew of different champions. At Bronze level, nobody gives a toss about counterpicks. Even throughout Silver, I was regularly counterpicked and still won lanes / games. Get incredibly good with 1, 2 or 3 champions / roles and carry with them. Knowing 50% of 18 champions is in no way comparable to knowing 100% of 3-4.

    Now back on topic:
    I wouldn't have a problem with them changing the "promotion series" between divisions. It should be immensely difficult to jump up a tier (Silver-->Gold-->Plat), but I don't see a massive problem with reducing the requirements for jumping up divisions. If the amount of LP you earn is throttled based upon your MMR, it should still prevent people having massive lucky win streaks and jumping up to the next tier. Sure, let them jump up a division, but if your MMR says you're Silver II, you're going to need to win ALOT of games in a row to get to Gold.
    Last edited by Hateful; 2013-02-06 at 04:29 AM.
    Who knows what secrets hide in the dark?

    Ah yes...*I* do...

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Judson View Post
    Imagine if WOW had a League/Division system on top of MMR for arena and RBGs.

    When your team gets to 1000, 1400, 1800, 2200 or 2600 it has to win 3 out of 5 games in order to advance to the next League. Throw in some 2 out of 3 every 100 points for the Divisons and now we've got a nice big pile of fail for an arena system.
    This is actually an example of how the system is eliminating the "luck" factor. Because just as you can get unlucky and get bad teammates, AFKer, or troll, you can also get lucky and get a win you don't deserve. (But no one would ever admit that) The 3 win system helps to ensure that people don't advance that don't deserve to. Because if you were to advance and don't deserve it... you become the person/people you are complaining about that are bringing you down.

  6. #46
    the mere fact you get reset to 0LP after losing best out of 3 makes this system a shitty one

    voyboy, a pro player who streamed for 12hours yesterday and almost just as much today cannot gain admission into challenger.

    so the majority of players who have more prior obligations are supposed to invest an insane amount of time to enter the next division.

    not sherif srs riot

    inb4dontplaythegameifyoudonthavetimenoob

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by tangosmango View Post
    the mere fact you get reset to 0LP after losing best out of 3 makes this system a shitty one
    That's not right (well, it's not meant to work like that, and if it is apparently that's a bug):

    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...37946#34237946

    3. Incorrect, it calculates LP gains and losses as normal and place you back into the standings based on that. If you go 1-2 in the series, you'll have ~80 LP afterwards.
    The only way you should go to 0 LP after losing a series is if your MMR is ridiculously low compared to where you were (like, 1100 MMR and you're playing at 1400 MMR), but that's pretty impossible I'd wager, so if it's happening it's likely a bug.
    Last edited by Hateful; 2013-02-06 at 05:21 AM.
    Who knows what secrets hide in the dark?

    Ah yes...*I* do...

  8. #48
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,765
    How does the initial bracketing work? I haven't done ranked before, did my 10 promotionals, and went immediately to silver II. I'm guessing promotionals also build MMR? (I'm 7 w 3 l).

    Sunfyre | Blog | Twitter

  9. #49
    Moderator Axethor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Elchea Library
    Posts
    3,600
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    How does the initial bracketing work? I haven't done ranked before, did my 10 promotionals, and went immediately to silver II. I'm guessing promotionals also build MMR? (I'm 7 w 3 l).
    Yep, the promotional matches use your hidden MMR to place you in a league. I'm jealous, because I was placed in Silver IV after my run to 1250 in the preseason.

    Axethor - level 90 UH/Blood DK
    Raelof - level 90 BM Hunter

    Steam | Twitter

    LoL Forum Mod | General Forum FAQ

  10. #50
    Moderator Isrozzis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    The land of too much heat
    Posts
    3,269
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    How does the initial bracketing work? I haven't done ranked before, did my 10 promotionals, and went immediately to silver II. I'm guessing promotionals also build MMR? (I'm 7 w 3 l).
    I'm not really sure how it's done, but they said it was based off of your mmr and somehow took into consideration your elo from last season. So if this was your first time doing ranked, I don't really know how it seeds you.

    Though, as long as you have a positive win loss ratio your mmr will go up. Also if you got seeded way below what you should be, you can jump divisions in the Bo3 series. I've heard of people jumping straight from gold V to gold I, because they were for some reason waay underseeded.

    It's not terribly common though, but it does happen.

  11. #51
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,765
    Quote Originally Posted by Isrozzis View Post
    I'm not really sure how it's done, but they said it was based off of your mmr and somehow took into consideration your elo from last season. So if this was your first time doing ranked, I don't really know how it seeds you.

    Though, as long as you have a positive win loss ratio your mmr will go up. Also if you got seeded way below what you should be, you can jump divisions in the Bo3 series. I've heard of people jumping straight from gold V to gold I, because they were for some reason waay underseeded.

    It's not terribly common though, but it does happen.
    You play against other provisional people in that bracket, correct? So I can assume that now I'll be playing with less derpy-people now that I'm seeded?

    Sunfyre | Blog | Twitter

  12. #52
    Moderator Isrozzis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    The land of too much heat
    Posts
    3,269
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    You play against other provisional people in that bracket, correct? So I can assume that now I'll be playing with less derpy-people now that I'm seeded?
    hmm, I don't know about playing against provisional people when you are also provisional. I suspect the derpyness of your teammates will be about the same, give or take a bit.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Isrozzis View Post
    hmm, I don't know about playing against provisional people when you are also provisional. I suspect the derpyness of your teammates will be about the same, give or take a bit.
    I'm fairly sure it wasn't working like that for team games, as we've played ranked teams in our placement matches, but it might be for solo queue.

  14. #54
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,765
    Quote Originally Posted by sarasun View Post
    I'm fairly sure it wasn't working like that for team games, as we've played ranked teams in our placement matches, but it might be for solo queue.
    Everybody was showing 1-5 wins, so I'm going to (assume) they're provisional. They were also insanely bad. Heh.

    Sunfyre | Blog | Twitter

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Brown Eye View Post
    Hell look at the guys that just got themselves kicked out of the tournament for their in game behavior. Do they win alot... hell yes. But they troll a ton.
    Who? From which tournament?
    Money talks, bullshit walks..

  16. #56
    Moderator Isrozzis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    The land of too much heat
    Posts
    3,269
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    Everybody was showing 1-5 wins, so I'm going to (assume) they're provisional. They were also insanely bad. Heh.
    Hmm, I know it tries to match you with people who have similar wins to you, but other then that I'm not really sure. So I guess as you win more it will place you with people who have won more. Which really doesn't mean that much because it's very possible to win a lot of games and not be very good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guyv3r View Post
    Who? From which tournament?
    I'm assuming he means the players from team solo mebi (was one of the EU LCS teams.) One of them got permabanned from the game, like if Riot ever catches him playing the account he is playing on instantly gets permabanned, and I think two were banned from professional league for a year, much like IwillDominate. Wasn't in a tournament, but it effected their ability to play in tournaments.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Brown Eye View Post
    You are just raging and your nitpicking quote after quote after quote of my responses show just how angry you are.
    I'm quoting you to point out how much of a douche you're being.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Brown Eye View Post
    Your delusion may not be about your skill level. Your delusion is that no matter where you place you should constantly be improving your rank based simply on the fact that you play a lot. This is not true.
    My only delusion is that if you play well you should see some form of minor progression.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Brown Eye View Post
    1) Your math is wrong its a 2:1 win ratio to advance. your 5/7 is a 5:2 ratio or a 2.5:1... which is more than you need.
    My math is accurate. You aren't using common sense and taking the wins/games requires before and after the 2/3 series for Divisional Promotion or the 3/5 series for League promotion in to account when realistically they are part of that equation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Brown Eye View Post
    3) Stop being mad for a second. [Take a breath!] (Are you ready?) Admit that luck and AFKers are not in every game. They are not in most games. They are present in more than I would like (but what are WE really gonna do about that?) but those people would effect our/your rank regardless of whether or not it was this system or ELO.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 07:34 PM ----------

    The issue here is how you look at it.

    I look at it as a matchmaking tool.

    You look at it as something to be earned.
    The only thing I am mad at is you. I "accept the challenge" provided to me in climbing out of Bronze V. I enjoy the game and ranked is all I play. I still think the system is crap and you are right in that I feel I deserve some sort of progression when I invest so much time. Especially with a 50% win ratio INCLUDING games involving afkers, trolls and ragers which you seem to be against admitting are excessively present in Bronze V. I understand they may be everywhere but you come on down and try out Bronze V and tell me it's not worse then I will believe you.

    As a matchmaking tool it would be better without the series games. With MMR encouraging a 50% win rate and the series games requiring hot streaks it is counter intuitive.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 09:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Brown Eye View Post
    This is actually an example of how the system is eliminating the "luck" factor. Because just as you can get unlucky and get bad teammates, AFKer, or troll, you can also get lucky and get a win you don't deserve. (But no one would ever admit that) The 3 win system helps to ensure that people don't advance that don't deserve to. Because if you were to advance and don't deserve it... you become the person/people you are complaining about that are bringing you down.
    It eliminates good luck, but not bad luck.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 10:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hateful View Post
    Saying that you can't possible improve because those around you are, in your belief, worse than you, is mind boggling. Do you need to play with TPA to improve your gameplay? Must you be placed with Silver players to have any chance of 'getting better'? That's ridiculous.
    Thank you for not being rude. I disagree with this though. If you want to become good at something one of the first things you do is surround yourself with others that are good at that thing. If you wanted to learn Karate you wouldn't come over to my house every evening for beer and potato chips. You would go to a dojo where others are practicing this, learn from them, and improve.

    If Bronze V were the hot place to get better you would see all of the pro players on their smurf accounts streaming their practice. However, it is not. Bronze V is the place you want to ignore and block as much as you can. You do not want to be learning habits and traits from others there. Your advice is backwards!
    Last edited by Judson; 2013-02-06 at 03:22 PM.
    armory - wowheroes - wowprogress
    Are you looking for a 25man raiding guild? We raid on US - Thunderhorn from 8-11 server time Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday nights. Check us out at http://www.twilight-alliance.com

  18. #58
    Elemental Lord Duilliath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Moonglade
    Posts
    8,198
    Diamond players have a 50% win rate too. Want to know the difference? Their 50% win rate is against other Diamond-tier players. Not against Bronze-level players.

    Your 50% win rate entitles you to stay where you are. It's that simple.

  19. #59
    You could put a diamond player in Bronze V and there is a good chance he would get 50% win rate with all of the fail there. There are just too many games where I have little to no impact on the outcome.
    armory - wowheroes - wowprogress
    Are you looking for a 25man raiding guild? We raid on US - Thunderhorn from 8-11 server time Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday nights. Check us out at http://www.twilight-alliance.com

  20. #60
    Elemental Lord Duilliath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Moonglade
    Posts
    8,198
    Quote Originally Posted by Judson View Post
    You could put a diamond player in Bronze V and there is a good chance he would get 50% win rate with all of the fail there. There are just too many games where I have little to no impact on the outcome.
    That would imply skill is totally irrelevant. Essentially, you are saying there is no skill level between you and a diamond level player. This is undeniably false. Of course, you are more than welcome to keep deluding yourself like that. It just won't make your Elo go up.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •