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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    That would imply skill is totally irrelevant. Essentially, you are saying there is no skill level between you and a diamond level player. This is undeniably false. Of course, you are more than welcome to keep deluding yourself like that. It just won't make your Elo go up.
    I guess you can't read either huh? I have already stated that I am a baddie. What I am saying is exactly what I have said. You could put a diamond level player in Bronze V.. Give him the same MMR I have and he will have a hard time getting out of there. What I am saying is that what ever skill he does happen to have, will not help him very much. It will help him, sure. but he will have a hard time getting out of there.

    Think about it for a second and get back to me.. Imagine the fact that he WOULD have to get LUCKY in order to get out of there. Then combine that with the fact that the current "series" based system removes the impact of positive luck and only leaves room for negative luck.

    If you want to make some money make a stream where you drive a smurf account down to Bronze V, get his MMR nice and low, then show people how it's possible to climb out. You won't make it out.


    Edit: How come this thread has turned into douche bags like you putting words into my mouth? Respond to what I have said and stop twisting words.

    Infracted
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2013-02-06 at 05:16 PM.
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  2. #62
    I am Murloc! Grading's Avatar
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    Why would you make a stream to show people how to do something that has been done a billion times?

    They could have a million monkeys on typewriters, and they would produce Shakespeare's collected works before they could produce an explanation about ranked that would make people understand.

  3. #63
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judson View Post
    I guess you can't read either huh? I have already stated that I am a baddie. What I am saying is exactly what I have said. You could put a diamond level player in Bronze V.. Give him the same MMR I have and he will have a hard time getting out of there. What I am saying is that what ever skill he does happen to have, will not help him very much. It will help him, sure. but he will have a hard time getting out of there.

    Think about it for a second and get back to me.. Imagine the fact that he WOULD have to get LUCKY in order to get out of there. Then combine that with the fact that the current "series" based system removes the impact of positive luck and only leaves room for negative luck.

    If you want to make some money make a stream where you drive a smurf account down to Bronze V, get his MMR nice and low, then show people how it's possible to climb out. You won't make it out.


    Edit: How come this thread has turned into douche bags like you putting words into my mouth? Respond to what I have said and stop twisting words.
    I am saying a Diamond player would not have any trouble. That is the bit you fail to understand. It's been done several times before. By saying he would have trouble, you are essentially saying he is as good as you are. That is quite simply false.

    Diamond players will stomp Bronze players and be out of Bronze in no time. Some of them have done so playing nothing but a single champion. (Poppy and pre-remake Eve coming to mind.)

    Now you can get your panties in a knot all you want, but Elo simply does not work the way you want it to work. Winning 50% will not make you go up. That simply means the matchmaker did its job and you are right where you should be. Whether that's at 1000 Elo or 2000 Elo is irrelevant, with a 50% WL ratio, you will stay put as your MMR is where you are.

    Win more and you will go up. Win more against better opponents and you will go up faster. That is all there is to it.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Judson View Post
    It eliminates good luck, but not bad luck.
    Wrong... it eliminates LUCK! PERIOD! Because in order for you to have good luck someone else has to have bad luck. When you get to the Divisional Promotion Series they don't advance because they really aren't as good as the 'win' suggests. So in effect its a wash for both of you in the grand scheme of things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Judson View Post
    My math is accurate. You aren't using common sense and taking the wins/games requires before and after the 2/3 series for Divisional Promotion or the 3/5 series for League promotion in to account when realistically they are part of that equation.
    Wrong again. Because while a 1.5:1 win ratio gets you to the series. You need a 2:1 to get out. So really you need a 2:1 what you have done up to that series be it 3, 4, or 5 wins really doesn't matter. Series comes... its time to nut up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Judson View Post
    My only delusion is that if you play well you should see some form of minor progression.
    Ok lets try this a different way because you just aren't getting it.

    Lets imagine for a second you are a salesman of some kind. You get paid $1000 a week. You make the company $1000 in profit each week.

    Should you get a promotion?

    The answer is no. Regardless of how hard you work, its costs the company just as much as you are making them to keep you employed. Also... the outside factors that you CAN'T control are irrelevant. Bad economy, customers not liking the product, slow days, male vs female etc.

    Once again no one is saying you play bad, no one is saying you play well. But with a 50% win rate... you aren't playing BETTER than anyone else and if you aren't playing BETTER than the person above you in rank... what entitles you to move up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Judson View Post
    You could put a diamond player in Bronze V and there is a good chance he would get 50% win rate with all of the fail there. There are just too many games where I have little to no impact on the outcome.
    You can't really prove this... so your point is moot.

    Not only that I can tell you with certainty that this is not the case, in fact I would venture that the complete opposite effect would happen and you would have 4 other people advancing who may not necessarily deserve to.

    In a pro situation when someone "feeds" (which may or may not actually be the case... they could just be being outplayed) they don't sit there and berate him for doing so... and then don't sit back with righteous indignation and think "at least i'm doing my job and i'm staying positive" they go down there (or up) and help them out. They help even out the score and get back on top.

    I also guarantee their communication is far superior to what you (or I) am doing. People really respond well to that, and respond well to another player doing well (or dominating) they want to have fun too... they want to be part of the action, the kills, the domination, and when a player is communicating well (like diamond players do) it is easy to get involved and help out and be part of that action. DESPITE the fact that their own personal contribution may be very little.

    There are other factors like them just being so much more experienced with the game that they know respawn times on creeps, pay close attention to timer on repops after they have killed a champion. Even down to how long it takes to get back into lane from fountain.

    I really think you would benefit if you look up Gbay99 on youtube and watch his videos.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 09:40 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Judson View Post
    I'm quoting you to point out how much of a douche you're being.
    I CAN be a douche... I can be a downright asshole. I really don't think I am right now though. (Someone else can chime in if they like)

    I'm being matter of fact, and I have a difference of opinion that you don't care for. Plus you are mad.

    I think that my own attitude and my abrasive approach is a huge factor in my position in ranked. Something I am actively working on, changing my attitude towards people I play with. People make mistakes... and sometimes those mistakes cost them a death, sometimes it has no effect.

    I can say for my part... it hasn't necessarily improved my rank yet... but I'm enjoying playing the game more often, and I find more people I would actually like to add to my (really small) friend list.

    My assumptions about your attitude come from 2 places.

    (1) Your attitude here
    (2) The general attitude of the community (which tends to suck)

    But you will truly be amazed how a little patience and understanding and heaven forbid a little kindness will greatly improve your games regardless of your rank.

    And i'm not talking about fake kindness, or the obligatory gl;hf!

    Your ADC is getting boned and your support is really frustrated... diffuse the situation have jungler pay a little more attention and have mid shift over if they can spare some time... and help them get back on top. IT IS ABSOLUTELY possible that either their support or their ADC is far superior than anyone on your team and they are just getting outplayed. But continuing to allow that to happen is just as much your fault, as it is theirs.
    Last edited by Bilbo Baggins; 2013-02-06 at 05:41 PM.

  5. #65
    This thread is a prime example of what's wrong with LoL community. People bickering and arguing claiming he or she is right and the other is wrong. This is why you can't go out of your way to point out someones mistake because you'll end up in a shitstorm.

    Neither party(ies) can take the high road and simply end the argument. People have to prove themselves correct in a fucking video game. real srs biznus brah

    what a shame

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by tangosmango View Post
    This thread is a prime example of what's wrong with LoL community. People bickering and arguing claiming he or she is right and the other is wrong. This is why you can't go out of your way to point out someones mistake because you'll end up in a shitstorm.

    Neither party(ies) can take the high road and simply end the argument. People have to prove themselves correct in a fucking video game. real srs biznus brah

    what a shame
    Oh the irony... you start off wearing a disguise of maturity, and then obliterate any argument you had by adding this little tidbit in the hopes of provoking a response.

    Believe it or not, this is a forum; where discussion is encouraged. Differences of opinion in a discussion can result in an argument (heated or not)

    Its not about who is right and who is wrong. Someone can like or not like a system. Being able to explain WHY is what separates the intelligent educated folks from the neanderthals that only react out of 'feeling'. When your WHY is misinformed... be prepared to be corrected, this is a public forum after all.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Judson View Post
    I guess you can't read either huh? I have already stated that I am a baddie.
    You're a baddie, and you're in bronze where you belong. Stop being a baby and deal with it.

    ELO/Ladders aren't just a skill issue. You also need the attitude. If you're oblivious as to how much of a baby you're being, then you certainly have a long way to go before you climb any higher up the ladder.
    Last edited by Still Rampant Rabbit; 2013-02-06 at 11:53 PM.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Brown Eye View Post
    Oh the irony... you start off wearing a disguise of maturity, and then obliterate any argument you had by adding this little tidbit in the hopes of provoking a response.

    Believe it or not, this is a forum; where discussion is encouraged. Differences of opinion in a discussion can result in an argument (heated or not)

    Its not about who is right and who is wrong. Someone can like or not like a system. Being able to explain WHY is what separates the intelligent educated folks from the neanderthals that only react out of 'feeling'. When your WHY is misinformed... be prepared to be corrected, this is a public forum after all.
    " Quote Originally Posted by Judson View Post
    I'm quoting you to point out how much of a douche you're being.
    I CAN be a douche... I can be a downright asshole. I really don't think I am right now though. (Someone else can chime in if they like)

    I'm being matter of fact, and I have a difference of opinion that you don't care for. Plus you are mad."

    very civil discussion...i'll see myself out of this petty argument.

    gl proving your point though!

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by tangosmango View Post

    very civil discussion...i'll see myself out of this petty argument.
    You continue to add so much to the conversation.

    See ya!

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 04:33 PM ----------

    Not sure what I expected though... looking at your posting history, you rarely if ever actually contribute to any conversation.

  10. #70
    The biggest problem I have with the new system is that it can be very...very disheartening...not to mention, you need NOT to have bad luck. To advance anywhere you gotta get 4-5 wins in a row...and probably 6-7 to make sure you anchor yourself in your new division. Just feels lots more grindy and like I'm spinning my wheels compared to slowly but surely gaining some elo.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Judson View Post
    I guess you can't read either huh? I have already stated that I am a baddie. What I am saying is exactly what I have said. You could put a diamond level player in Bronze V.. Give him the same MMR I have and he will have a hard time getting out of there. What I am saying is that what ever skill he does happen to have, will not help him very much. It will help him, sure. but he will have a hard time getting out of there.

    Infracted
    lol...what?

    A diamond player would have very little trouble going through bronze and silver.

    Also, is it really a 2:1 win ratio required to move up? How can that be?

    "There are two types of guys in this world. Guys who sniff their fingers after scratching their balls, and dirty fucking liars." -StylesClashv3
    "Elo Hell is where the Ego is greater than the Elo." -Bystekhilcar

  12. #72
    My gripe with the current system is that they dont show your MMR to you.

    I dont care about leagues, divisions, tiers, etc, they can keeep all that, i just want to see MY MMR.

    There is also the problem that to advanace a division you need to win 3/4 games at least one time, and to advance a league you need at least 4/6 at some time.

    But again, i'm fine with everything, except not seeing my MMR.
    Last edited by Crashdummy; 2013-02-07 at 02:10 PM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post

    There is also the problem that to advanace a division you need to win 3/4 games at least one time, and to advance a league you need at least 4/6 at some time.
    I thought it was 2/3 to advance a divison, and 3/5 to advance a league? I'm talking strictly the "promotion" or "move-up" matches.

    I haven't played mine yet. My next matches decide if I go from Silver 1 to Gold 5. I'm putting in a shitload of practice tweaking my Twitch, Maokai, and Olaf games in case a massive shit storm happens and I cannot get my Caitlyn w/ Nunu support combo.

    "There are two types of guys in this world. Guys who sniff their fingers after scratching their balls, and dirty fucking liars." -StylesClashv3
    "Elo Hell is where the Ego is greater than the Elo." -Bystekhilcar

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Toxigen View Post
    I thought it was 2/3 to advance a divison, and 3/5 to advance a league? I'm talking strictly the "promotion" or "move-up" matches.

    I haven't played mine yet. My next matches decide if I go from Silver 1 to Gold 5. I'm putting in a shitload of practice tweaking my Twitch, Maokai, and Olaf games in case a massive shit storm happens and I cannot get my Caitlyn w/ Nunu support combo.
    Yes, 2/3 to advance a division, and the previous one you needed to win to qualify for it. Which means you need to win at least 3/4 at one time.

    The same with the league promotion.

  15. #75
    Ah, I see.

    I think I got lucky to get to the top for promotion. Let's say you're two wins away from getting to advancement matches. If you win your first, and lose the next...that loss probably makes for a sizable net loss in league points. Its likely you really have to win two in a row to get to an advancement match.

    So, would that be 4/5 for divisional and 5/7 for league advancement?

    Sounds fucking brutal.

    "There are two types of guys in this world. Guys who sniff their fingers after scratching their balls, and dirty fucking liars." -StylesClashv3
    "Elo Hell is where the Ego is greater than the Elo." -Bystekhilcar

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Toxigen View Post
    Ah, I see.

    I think I got lucky to get to the top for promotion. Let's say you're two wins away from getting to advancement matches. If you win your first, and lose the next...that loss probably makes for a sizable net loss in league points. Its likely you really have to win two in a row to get to an advancement match.

    So, would that be 4/5 for divisional and 5/7 for league advancement?

    Sounds fucking brutal.
    You need a little luck yes, and some skill. Again, i would be ok with it, i just want to see my MMR, which doesnt depend so much on luck and is a more realistic meassure of your skill.

  17. #77
    I started playing LoL about 4 months ago, I've been 30 for 2 months now. I got to the point in normals were I was winning my lane and positively contributing to my team about 80% of the time (So far I only play Top or Mid, I'll try to ADC if I have to). If I lost, it was usually to someone with like 600+ wins, so I thought I'd give ranked a go.

    Says you have to play 10 provisional games to get placed, OK seems fine. Well it seems to just throw you against other people in their provisional games basing nothing off how you have done in normals, and in most games I got stomped... hard. I got on good teams though, went 6/2, but only felt like I contributed to my team in 3 of those games. After the eighth game I get placed in Silver III (what happened to 10 games?). So I basically got carried through my provisional games and enter my first S III game to get completely stomped, like 0/6 in the lane phase and only 1 kill with a lot more deaths once team fights started. Next 2 games go similarly, and I'm dropped to Silver IV. NP, I know I shouldn't have been ranked that high. I go into my S IV matches thinking it will be more of the same, I was getting crushed and its only 1 division. I've now gone 3/1 in Silver IV and have won or ended up about equal in my lane all 4 games, and contributed to my team in team fights.

    Is it really that big a difference per division?

  18. #78
    Epic! Riboe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOUBLEXBAUGH View Post
    I started playing LoL about 4 months ago, I've been 30 for 2 months now. I got to the point in normals were I was winning my lane and positively contributing to my team about 80% of the time (So far I only play Top or Mid, I'll try to ADC if I have to). If I lost, it was usually to someone with like 600+ wins, so I thought I'd give ranked a go.

    [...]

    Is it really that big a difference per division?
    I can't really say much about the difference in skill per Division, as I haven't left my initial Division yet.

    However, I just wanted to give you a friendly piece of advice: Do not play ranked yet. If you can only play top or mid, you should stay away from ranked, until you've learned a few more roles.
    Apart from the rare "Mid or feed"-guy, people who can only play one or two roles are the most annoying to come by in ranked.
    There's a large risk that you'll be forced to play a role you aren't good at. Or you might force someone else into a role they aren't good at, because you can't play more than two roles.
    Besides, learning to play other roles, will give you a greater understanding of many more champions and will increase your chances of doing well against them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YOU'RE FUCKED. (Yes, it's my forums, I'm allowed to do that)

  19. #79
    I have played 11 soloqueue games. All this season, all duoing with a friend. He hasn't played any soloqueue games without me either. Yet somehow I still got more league points from our last win. Seems broken to me.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Riboe View Post
    I just wanted to give you a friendly piece of advice: Do not play ranked yet. If you can only play top or mid, you should stay away from ranked, until you've learned a few more roles.
    Apart from the rare "Mid or feed"-guy, people who can only play one or two roles are the most annoying to come by in ranked.
    There's a large risk that you'll be forced to play a role you aren't good at. Or you might force someone else into a role they aren't good at, because you can't play more than two roles.
    Besides, learning to play other roles, will give you a greater understanding of many more champions and will increase your chances of doing well against them.
    In ranked if I don't call/get top or mid I'll dodge for now, and I've only had to do that twice in 14 games. I won't demand a role or throw a game cause I don't get my way, just make them wait the 10 secs it takes to go back in queue and replace me. The "try" ADC was in reference to normals only, and I only say try because I tend to be overly agressive and like to run in, and most ADCs being extremly squishy doesnt work out so well. Most of my Top champs are junglers so I've done that a few times now too, but I would want a lot more experience before doing it in ranked. Support tho... F that :P

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