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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    When I say "Marched" I meant a military action against the city, Varian didn't go completely alone.

    They said they left because of the upheaval in Ironforge felt like a wear on their welcome.

    Dark Irons in the questline are actively assaulting Ironforge, you have to clear them out in the quests. Again the book and the in game events skew horrible, however the point remains Dark Irons have zero care for the Horde in any capacity and as of MoP the ones in line with Moira are firmly in the Alliance. There are a handful Dark Iron dwarves in the Shrine of Seven Stars that are Alliance flagged and function as vendors and give directions throughout the shrine like city guards. Dark Irons joining the Horde would need significant lore development, not tit for tat should High Elves, for whatever reason, become an Alliance playable race.
    1. I was referring to the dark irons and Moira... but yeah Varian brought like, six SI:7 guys.

    2. -Source-?

    3. The book events are not even DEPICTING the game events!
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  2. #22
    Pit Lord Klaxxar's Avatar
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    The Dark Irons could be angry that their brew is terrible, and I don't like Moira at all.
    PM me for my Friend Code, Battletag, ETC...

  3. #23
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    I don't care about, or want, Dark Irons in the Horde but the Dun Morogh starting area takes place WELL after the shattering.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  4. #24
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Moira is the legitimate heir to the throne of Ironforge, I am still somewhat baffled Varian could meddle so much into dwarven affairs, by right of succession Moira should be able to rule alone.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Moira is the legitimate heir to the throne of Ironforge, I am still somewhat baffled Varian could meddle so much into dwarven affairs, by right of succession Moira should be able to rule alone.
    Technically the Shattering implied it was male descendents which was what caused tension between Moira and her father which led to her kidnapping becoming less involuntary and Moira feeling more accepted by the Dark Irons. Because Moira now has a male descendent her son is now the closest (and only) male descendent of Magni which puts him as heir. Granted Moira's initial method for asserting her authority wasn't the most tactful.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    You don't play Alliance do you? Dark Irons played a huge role in the Dun morogh questline for Cata. In Shattering they launched a full scale invasion of the area and trying to take over Ironforge. Varian thinks Moira was behind it and Stormwind marched on Ironforge to clear them out. That's why the Gnomes largely left Ironforge. It was also there than Anduin stopped his father from executing Moira, who wasn't behind the assault after all.
    Most of this did not happen in the game though, with the exception of the Dark Iron attack on Ironforge. The other events you mention were not really related to that attack. Varian for example came to Ironforge because Moira did in fact take control over Ironforge and ruled it with an iron fist, and she had closed the deeprun tram and expelled the gryphon tamers. On top of that, she basically kept Anduin Wrynn as a hostage in the city - so she was hardly completely innocent. She only became part of the newly formed Council of Three Hammers because of Anduin's faith in everyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    The Dark Irons whom attacked IF are working with the Twilight's Hammer and still loyal to Ragnaros.
    Who, not whom.


    EDIT: Ugh, somehow I missed that most of this had already been mentioned before I posted. Sorry. Please ignore me.
    Last edited by iscalio; 2013-02-02 at 04:18 AM.

  7. #27
    The Lightbringer Kathranis's Avatar
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    The story of Coren Direbrew and his gang of hoodlums is actually explained in the Pearl of Pandaria comic book. Suffice it to say they don't represent all Dark Iron dwarves, anymore than the Defias represent all humans.

    The first Brewfest was a competition between Chen Stormstout and Grimbooze Thunderbrew, which Coren Direbrew wormed his way into. Coren lost the competition and now he and his minions attack Brewfest every year to get revenge.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 04:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by dki07 View Post
    Technically the Shattering implied it was male descendents which was what caused tension between Moira and her father which led to her kidnapping becoming less involuntary and Moira feeling more accepted by the Dark Irons. Because Moira now has a male descendent her son is now the closest (and only) male descendent of Magni which puts him as heir. Granted Moira's initial method for asserting her authority wasn't the most tactful.
    We don't know all the rules of dwarven succession, but if it indeed specifically requires a male descendant, her son is the rightful heir and is too young to rule, so there should probably be a regency until he comes of age.

    Kingship should certainly not pass to the sovereign's brother if he has a living male descendant, but a regency might be viable for Muradin if male leadership is required, which would prevent Moira from ruling as a queen regent.

  8. #28
    Also in the domination point scenario, some of the enemies can be Dark Iron dwarves. Which I guess is blizzard's way of cementing that they are a part of the Alliance. Seeing as how they wouldn't fight alliance battles if they weren't.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    We don't know all the rules of dwarven succession, but if it indeed specifically requires a male descendant, her son is the rightful heir and is too young to rule, so there should probably be a regency until he comes of age.
    Exactly. This is why when talked to in Ironforge, Moira provides these quotes:
    "You stand before Moira, Queen-Regent of the Dark Iron Clan. Watch your tongue!"
    "In time, my son shall rule the Dark Irons, and perhaps all of Ironforge as well."

  10. #30
    Dreadlord Icaras's Avatar
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    This is assuming we don't get to cure Mangi at some point, of course.

    If we did, there's a good chance he'd take a queen and make a direct heir. Courese, I'd imagine that'd make the Dark irons kinda angry.

    Now that I think of it, why can I not know use Dark iron skins for my fem dwarf toons? That would be all sorts of epics for my fem dwarf mage.
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  11. #31
    I'd just like to point out that she was kidnapped and mind controlled. There used to be a quest to save her from her captor and she was grateful to get away from him after he was dead, it made the fight a bit more challenging (when level appropriate of course, and ages ago before every class had ridiculous scaling OP abilities they do now) to have to kill the emperor without killing her.

    However this was all ret-conned for god knows why and changed so that she actually liked him and wants to rule the dark irons.

    Blizzard has always been a fan of retcons and story that doesn't make sense.

    As for dark irons in brewfest, they've been attacking for years prior to cataclysm where this retconned girl, now leader of the dark irons, returned to iron forge. They are just too lazy to update the event to show it. The whole reason the dark irons attacked in the first place according to brewfest is because they wanted their beer/ale/brew/whatever to be at the festival and tasted just like all the other families and houses, but weren't allowed because they were the enemy, so they attacked and disrupted the festival out of jealousy. Now that dark irons are more accepted, this wouldn't be the case. But alas, blizzard laziness. Just like all the leaps in time you experience while leveling with certain people being alive, then dead, then alive again, then dead again, it just makes no sense.
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  12. #32
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    For the first, as mentioned, her maiden name is Bronzebeard. For the second, Blizz hasn't TOUCHEd holiday events since the Love/Noblegarden revamp a few years back.
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  13. #33
    The Dark Iron dwarves during brewfest are from the Dark Iron Brewery (the name escapes me), and were not invited to Brewfest.

    It's mentioned in the quest dialogs with the NPCs. The attack brewfest because they were scorned.
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Dasani View Post
    I'd just like to point out that she was kidnapped and mind controlled. There used to be a quest to save her from her captor and she was grateful to get away from him after he was dead, it made the fight a bit more challenging (when level appropriate of course, and ages ago before every class had ridiculous scaling OP abilities they do now) to have to kill the emperor without killing her.

    However this was all ret-conned for god knows why and changed so that she actually liked him and wants to rule the dark irons.
    That is not true. There was no retcon.

    This is what Moira said in the original quest after killing the Dark Iron emperor:

    Alliance:
    "Thaurissan was a great and honorable dwarf. You ruined my life and the life of my unborn child!
    <You think that Princess Bronzebeard may still be suffering from the residual effect of the Emperor's spell.>
    Return to Ironforge and tell my father that the heir to the Kingdom of Ironforge will be a Dark Iron dwarf.
    Whether he approves or not, it shall be."

    Horde:
    "You have slain my husband, <race>! My child will be born into this world without a father.
    <Princess Moira points directly at you.>
    I assure you, this child will be the next ruler of the kingdom of Ironforge. You and your kind shall be hunted down until the end of days for this wrongful act.
    <You think that Princess Moira may be suffering from the residual effect of Thaurissan's spell.>
    Leave me be, <race>. I am certain your warchief will be eager to hear the results of his meddling."

    The names of the quests ("The Princess's Surprise" and "The Princess Saved?") also imply that the assumption that her stay in Blackrock Depths was completely involuntary was a mistake, made by both Thrall and her father.)

  15. #35
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Moira is the legitimate heir to the throne of Ironforge, I am still somewhat baffled Varian could meddle so much into dwarven affairs, by right of succession Moira should be able to rule alone.
    It is a little odd and is probably one of the worst pieces of recent lore (it's not that bad, but still) that somebody else from a different people could deny somebodies sovereignty via attempted assassination and then appoint a council of races that have never gotten along well. This is made more obscure by the fact the Alliance was always characterised by each race having political independence from each other and there being no one single governing body for them.
    I think the only thing that made it work was that the Dwarves wanted it.

    But answer the OP. Moira's a Bronzebeard Dwarf hence why she doesn't have grey skin and she wasn't around when Ragnaros first appeared so she does not have the red eyes of which I feel should probably be removed from the Dark Iron loyalists.
    Any time you see a hostile Dark Iron they're part of Twilight's Hammer which has a substantial presence of their race.

  16. #36
    Stood in the Fire Hattai's Avatar
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    I dont ever see Dark Irons ever joining the Horde, the ones that didn't come to Ironforge are still in Blackrock Mountain at war with the Blackrock Orcs, which is exactly who Garrosh has been all buddy-buddy with as of late. Just wishful thinking on the part of those who say "We want Dwarves, you can have elves.".

    Though I realise saying never is a bad thing as far as WoW is concerned.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    THe Dark Irons were barely touched in Cata. Which leads me to think Blizz has more planned for them down the road. If any Ally race were to go Horde, it'd be them. Then the Alliance could get High Elves.
    As much as I would like playable High Elves, I think the Dwarves are too much of an iconic Alliance race to simply give out to the Horde. It will be like giving the Alliance a playable tribe of Trolls.
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    THe Dark Irons were barely touched in Cata. Which leads me to think Blizz has more planned for them down the road. If any Ally race were to go Horde, it'd be them. Then the Alliance could get High Elves.
    Exactly. As a member of the Alliance that I am, I fully distrust the Black Iron dwarves.

    Moreover, I sense a plot: Black Iron dwarves united again and commanded by Moira will pretend take over Ironforge and unite the three clans under the iron fist of the Moira's son. A coup.

    Maybe Moira is dubious at first to perform this betrayal, but seeing as her son gets only contempt from the other clans and fearing that her son cannot become who reconvenes all the clans under his command, will change her opinion.

    However, she will need some help to end with the dwarves who refuse to submit and to deal with the Alliance in general, and that help will arrive by the hand of the Horde. Thus, Black Iron dwarves will swear allegiance to the Horde in return to help them gain control of the three dwarves clans and destroy the Alliance. Result: new race for the Horde: Black Iron Dwarves.


    Quote Originally Posted by Samakuro View Post
    As much as I would like playable High Elves, I think the Dwarves are too much of an iconic Alliance race to simply give out to the Horde. It will be like giving the Alliance a playable tribe of Trolls.
    In the same way that the thalassian elves are an iconic race of the Alliance, and... what a surprise! they happen to be a race of the Horde...

    In short, Blizzard has a debt to the Alliance: the Quel'dorei


  19. #39
    Herald of the Titans Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    1. Moira is the daughter of Magni but she married the leader of the Dark Irons, Dagran Thaurissan. We get to kill him, and her, at the end of the Blackrock Depths dungeons.
    2. I can only guess that the event hasn't been updated. Or they are rebel Dark Irons maybe?
    3. As above I guess.
    Someona has already said those dark irons aren't allies with Ironforge.
    However, Moira is not in BRD anymore as far as i can tell; the NPC near Thaurissan is now called "Dark Iron Priestess" or something like this.
    Shame, cause i liked to kill her as a dwarf.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    Moreover, I sense a plot: Black Iron dwarves united again and commanded by Moira will pretend take over Ironforge and unite the three clans under the iron fist of the Moira's son. A coup.
    Moira's son is an infant. I doubt he has an "iron fist". If such a plot came to be, it would be her iron fist as Queen Regent, not her son's.

    Your scenario is unlikely however. Moira hates the Horde. Also, her influence over the Dark Iron Clan is not as great as you assume, or as she would like you to believe. Many traditionalist Dark Iron do not like the idea of a "halfbreed runt" (Moira's son) ruling them. Even among those that seek reconciliation with the other dwarven nations and left Shadowforge City together with Moira there are still subversive elements (you could call them traitors), even in high offices (such as Ambassador Slaghammer).

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