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  1. #41
    Herald of the Titans Northem's Avatar
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    It is only a matter of time before the Dark Iron dwarves rebel against the Alliance, with or without the support of Moira. Their ambition is legendary and has no boundaries, the fact that it their regent queen is a Bronzebeard will not stop them: they want to subject all dwarves under their command and they will not hesitate to kill those who get in the way.

    And the Alliance will not repeat the same mistake: will punish the Dark Iron wherever they go, they have never been welcome in the lands of the Alliance and no Dark Iron dwarf will live.

    Moira is free to decide who to support, if to the Bronzebeard or to the Thaurissan... that in case she survives.

    The only hope to prevail for the Dark Iron is the Horde. And they will do anything to get their support.

  2. #42
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    It is only a matter of time before the Dark Iron dwarves rebel against the Alliance, with or without the support of Moira. Their ambition is legendary and has no boundaries, the fact that it their regent queen is a Bronzebeard will not stop them: they want to subject all dwarves under their command and they will not hesitate to kill those who get in the way.
    What you're suggesting makes no sense.
    The agreement for Dwarven leadership was that when Dagran comes of age he will inherit the throne of the Bronzebeard and Dark Iron Dwarves. So why would they rebel when all they have to do is wait for Dargan to come of age? If they rebelled they would lose the support of the Alliance and Bronzebeard Dwarves, whereas if they didn't rebel they'd be allies with both with the Bronzebeard Dwarves effectively have a part Dark Iron leader.

    From what we've seen of them so far and what we know of their past they aren't actually an evil people at all. Prior to Modimus' death there was peace between the Dwarf Clans, even if it was tenuous on top of this they still obeyed the High King despite his close relations with the Bronzebeards.

    For comparisons sake you can actually connect their past and present actions with the Orcs. They weren't all that bad before and were relatively peaceful, but eventually became enslaved by a greater power (Raganaros and the Burning Legion) following an accident on their part that physically changed them (Red eyes and green skin). They then had massive social and military changes due to these events and for the longest time weren't the same people.
    See what they do with their freedom then make calls on them, basing it off of prejudice is just stupid. If Drukan is anything to go by they are suspicious of the other races due to their races history and hold prejudices against the other Dwarf Clans, but ultimately is not a bad Dwarf.

    You should also take into account the Thorium Brotherhood when considering the hostility of the Dark Irons.

    Where are you getting all this nonsense about their "legendary ambition"?
    You're talking like some sort of prejudiced RP'er.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-02-02 at 05:33 PM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Moira is the legitimate heir to the throne of Ironforge, I am still somewhat baffled Varian could meddle so much into dwarven affairs, by right of succession Moira should be able to rule alone.
    I was under the impression that Moira was denied the throne because she's considered a traitor to Ironforge, and the only reason she's part of the council is because she's the leader of the Dark Irons.

    Basically by marrying Thaurissan she forfeited her right to rule Ironforge.

    Technically I'd think that Muradin should be next in line for the throne, the dispute is between the brother of the king vs the traitor daughter of the king -- Moira IS the rightful heir, but her actions throw that into contention. I think the general idea is that the council will rule until Moira's son is old enough to take the throne.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    It is only a matter of time before the Dark Iron dwarves rebel against the Alliance, with or without the support of Moira. Their ambition is legendary and has no boundaries, the fact that it their regent queen is a Bronzebeard will not stop them: they want to subject all dwarves under their command and they will not hesitate to kill those who get in the way.

    And the Alliance will not repeat the same mistake: will punish the Dark Iron wherever they go, they have never been welcome in the lands of the Alliance and no Dark Iron dwarf will live.

    Moira is free to decide who to support, if to the Bronzebeard or to the Thaurissan... that in case she survives.

    The only hope to prevail for the Dark Iron is the Horde. And they will do anything to get their support.
    Okay what no.

    There's literally no sign that they intend to conquer the Alliance militaristically, they'll definitely try to do it through politics but it's ridiculous to assume they're going to try a coup and fail and join the horde.
    Twas brillig

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    I was under the impression that Moira was denied the throne because she's considered a traitor to Ironforge, and the only reason she's part of the council is because she's the leader of the Dark Irons.

    Basically by marrying Thaurissan she forfeited her right to rule Ironforge.

    Technically I'd think that Muradin should be next in line for the throne, the dispute is between the brother of the king vs the traitor daughter of the king -- Moira IS the rightful heir, but her actions throw that into contention. I think the general idea is that the council will rule until Moira's son is old enough to take the throne.
    No she is the legitimate heir,even before Muradin she was never disowned as such she remains the heir of Ironforge before everyone else. Varian had no right at all to interfere into dwarven business.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    I was under the impression that Moira was denied the throne because she's considered a traitor to Ironforge, and the only reason she's part of the council is because she's the leader of the Dark Irons.

    Basically by marrying Thaurissan she forfeited her right to rule Ironforge.

    Technically I'd think that Muradin should be next in line for the throne, the dispute is between the brother of the king vs the traitor daughter of the king -- Moira IS the rightful heir, but her actions throw that into contention. I think the general idea is that the council will rule until Moira's son is old enough to take the throne.
    There is some quest dialog and NPC dialog I think that says only male heirs can ascend to the throne. In which Moira's son is the rightful heir to his grandfather's throne.
    Been a really really long time since I've played/leveled a dwarf.

    Muradin (or Brann, which ever is the older of the two) would be next in line if Moira did not have a son.
    My name is Cernunnos, I will love you like no other, I have died a thousand deaths, each time I died I thought of you.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Cernunnos View Post
    There is some quest dialog and NPC dialog I think that says only male heirs can ascend to the throne. In which Moira's son is the rightful heir to his grandfather's throne.
    Been a really really long time since I've played/leveled a dwarf.
    There is no such thing.
    Twas brillig

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    There is no such thing.
    Could have sworn there was. Haven't played a dwarf in over 3 years.



    It's mentioned in the novel the Shattering.
    Last edited by Cernunnos; 2013-02-03 at 02:36 AM.
    My name is Cernunnos, I will love you like no other, I have died a thousand deaths, each time I died I thought of you.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Cernunnos View Post
    Could have sworn there was. Haven't played a dwarf in over 3 years.



    It's mentioned in the novel the Shattering.
    No it's not.

    I read the novel.

    It's not.

    She has MORE right than Muradin.
    Twas brillig

  10. #50
    Titan Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    1. Moira is the daughter of Magni but she married the leader of the Dark Irons, Dagran Thaurissan. We get to kill him, and her, at the end of the Blackrock Depths dungeons.
    2. I can only guess that the event hasn't been updated. Or they are rebel Dark Irons maybe?
    3. As above I guess.
    Moira dying isn't canon. You can kill her, but its not part of the original quest objective. You go there to save her.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Varian had no right at all to interfere into dwarven business.
    From what I understand Varian 'interfered' because an Alliance nation was under attack.

    Lets use a real-world analogy: Say for example Prince Charles of England ran off and married the Dutch queen and the english hated him for it, branded him a traitor, and after his mother died he came back with an army and tried to forcibly take over england. Are you saying it would be wrong for France, America etc to go to help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    She has MORE right than Muradin.
    One would think that the people of Ironforge hate her and won't stand for her being queen, regardless of her "right". This is why the council was created.
    Last edited by Netherspark; 2013-02-03 at 04:21 AM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    From what I understand Varian 'interfered' because an Alliance nation was under attack.

    Lets use a real-world analogy: Say for example Prince Charles of England ran off and married the Dutch queen and the english hated him for it, branded him a traitor, and after his mother died he came back with an army and tried to forcibly take over england. Are you saying it would be wrong for France, America etc to go to help?
    For England that example may work. But if you go into France with an army, that's another story. lol

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    From what I understand Varian 'interfered' because an Alliance nation was under attack.

    Lets use a real-world analogy: Say for example Prince Charles of England ran off and married the Dutch queen and the english hated him for it, branded him a traitor, and after his mother died he came back with an army and tried to forcibly take over england. Are you saying it would be wrong for France, America etc to go to help?
    The problem is the dwarves didn't want her gone, they acknowledged her, even though they did not like her methods she tried to more or less force the dwarven clans to get along. Varian nearly triggered another civil war with his rash actions.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    So I assume all the bad Dark Irons attacking Brewfest can be dismissed as allies of the Twilight Hammer-friendly faction.
    Or Angry Drunks.

  15. #55
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Varian nearly triggered another civil war with his rash actions.
    Which is ironic when his actions were intended to stop one .

  16. #56
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    The only solution is for Moira's son to be assassinated by SI7.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    The only solution is for Moira's son to be assassinated by SI7.
    Brilliant, child assassination. So its ok if the cause is "righteous".

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    The only solution is for Moira's son to be assassinated by SI7.
    If you want a war between Ironforge and Stormwind, go ahead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Which is ironic when his actions were intended to stop one .
    Maybe so, still going in assassinating the legitimate heir to the throne, while she is being accepted by her people really isn't a good idea.

  19. #59
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    If you want a war between Ironforge and Stormwind, go ahead.



    Maybe so, still going in assassinating the legitimate heir to the throne, while she is being accepted by her people really isn't a good idea.
    It's for the greater good.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    It's for the greater good.
    Unless you are different faction than alliance, I doubt that war between dwarfs and humans is "greater good".

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