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  1. #41
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Why are people acting like the Dark Irons will betray the Ironforge Dwarves and leave along with Moira?

    The non-Twilight's Hammer Dark Irons seem rather content with Moira especially considering she's been ruling them for a few years by herself, they definitely accept her as their ruler and so far we haven't seen anything that really says otherwise.

    They would also accept her son as a ruler too I'd imagine, given how the Dwarves have ultimately united again so there's a good chance there may be a Dwarf High King again even if the Wildhammers leave as he would have rule over the Dark Irons and Bronzebeards, thus having a Dark Iron High King something every Dark Iron probably dreams of happening.
    It's also worth bearing in mind who his father was and they definitely accepted him, so if they accepted him and Moira there's no reason for them to oppose Dagran Jr, on top of this he's part of their royalty bearing the name Thaurissan and the royal bloodline.

    Also Moira would betray them either. She's made it adamantly clear that she doesn't want conflicts between the Dark Irons and the Bronzebeards so that her son can actually rule them together. So while she perhaps goes about in the wrong manipulative way, she does actually want the two clans to co-exist.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-02-02 at 03:13 PM.

  2. #42
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dasani View Post
    I'd just like to point out that she was kidnapped and mind controlled. There used to be a quest to save her from her captor and she was grateful to get away from him after he was dead, it made the fight a bit more challenging (when level appropriate of course, and ages ago before every class had ridiculous scaling OP abilities they do now) to have to kill the emperor without killing her.

    However this was all ret-conned for god knows why and changed so that she actually liked him and wants to rule the dark irons.

    Blizzard has always been a fan of retcons and story that doesn't make sense.

    As for dark irons in brewfest, they've been attacking for years prior to cataclysm where this retconned girl, now leader of the dark irons, returned to iron forge. They are just too lazy to update the event to show it. The whole reason the dark irons attacked in the first place according to brewfest is because they wanted their beer/ale/brew/whatever to be at the festival and tasted just like all the other families and houses, but weren't allowed because they were the enemy, so they attacked and disrupted the festival out of jealousy. Now that dark irons are more accepted, this wouldn't be the case. But alas, blizzard laziness. Just like all the leaps in time you experience while leveling with certain people being alive, then dead, then alive again, then dead again, it just makes no sense.


    Uh, NO, she was never grateful, Magni just SAID she was mind controlled because that's what he assumed.

    When you offed Thaurissan she was NEVER happy.

    <Princess Bronzebeard weeps over the loss of Emperor Dagran Thaurissan.>

    Why???

    Description
    Thaurissan was a great and honorable dwarf. You ruined my life and the life of my unborn child!

    <You think that Princess Bronzebeard may still be suffering from the residual effect of the Emperor's spell.>

    Return to Ironforge and tell my father that the heir to the Kingdom of Ironforge will be a Dark Iron dwarf.

    Whether he approves or not, it shall be.
    Completion
    <King Magni Bronzebeard is visibly upset.>

    It seems that even in death, Thaurissan has won.

    You are dismissed, <name>. Before you leave, you may choose your reward from the royal vault.
    But guess what? Turns out she was NEVER MIND CONTROLLED.

    Thaurissan just wasn't a sexist ass like her dad and most of the bronzebeards in IF were up until she was kidnapped.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  3. #43
    It is only a matter of time before the Dark Iron dwarves rebel against the Alliance, with or without the support of Moira. Their ambition is legendary and has no boundaries, the fact that it their regent queen is a Bronzebeard will not stop them: they want to subject all dwarves under their command and they will not hesitate to kill those who get in the way.

    And the Alliance will not repeat the same mistake: will punish the Dark Iron wherever they go, they have never been welcome in the lands of the Alliance and no Dark Iron dwarf will live.

    Moira is free to decide who to support, if to the Bronzebeard or to the Thaurissan... that in case she survives.

    The only hope to prevail for the Dark Iron is the Horde. And they will do anything to get their support.


  4. #44
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    It is only a matter of time before the Dark Iron dwarves rebel against the Alliance, with or without the support of Moira. Their ambition is legendary and has no boundaries, the fact that it their regent queen is a Bronzebeard will not stop them: they want to subject all dwarves under their command and they will not hesitate to kill those who get in the way.
    What you're suggesting makes no sense.
    The agreement for Dwarven leadership was that when Dagran comes of age he will inherit the throne of the Bronzebeard and Dark Iron Dwarves. So why would they rebel when all they have to do is wait for Dargan to come of age? If they rebelled they would lose the support of the Alliance and Bronzebeard Dwarves, whereas if they didn't rebel they'd be allies with both with the Bronzebeard Dwarves effectively have a part Dark Iron leader.

    From what we've seen of them so far and what we know of their past they aren't actually an evil people at all. Prior to Modimus' death there was peace between the Dwarf Clans, even if it was tenuous on top of this they still obeyed the High King despite his close relations with the Bronzebeards.

    For comparisons sake you can actually connect their past and present actions with the Orcs. They weren't all that bad before and were relatively peaceful, but eventually became enslaved by a greater power (Raganaros and the Burning Legion) following an accident on their part that physically changed them (Red eyes and green skin). They then had massive social and military changes due to these events and for the longest time weren't the same people.
    See what they do with their freedom then make calls on them, basing it off of prejudice is just stupid. If Drukan is anything to go by they are suspicious of the other races due to their races history and hold prejudices against the other Dwarf Clans, but ultimately is not a bad Dwarf.

    You should also take into account the Thorium Brotherhood when considering the hostility of the Dark Irons.

    Where are you getting all this nonsense about their "legendary ambition"?
    You're talking like some sort of prejudiced RP'er.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-02-02 at 05:33 PM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Moira is the legitimate heir to the throne of Ironforge, I am still somewhat baffled Varian could meddle so much into dwarven affairs, by right of succession Moira should be able to rule alone.
    I was under the impression that Moira was denied the throne because she's considered a traitor to Ironforge, and the only reason she's part of the council is because she's the leader of the Dark Irons.

    Basically by marrying Thaurissan she forfeited her right to rule Ironforge.

    Technically I'd think that Muradin should be next in line for the throne, the dispute is between the brother of the king vs the traitor daughter of the king -- Moira IS the rightful heir, but her actions throw that into contention. I think the general idea is that the council will rule until Moira's son is old enough to take the throne.

  6. #46
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    It is only a matter of time before the Dark Iron dwarves rebel against the Alliance, with or without the support of Moira. Their ambition is legendary and has no boundaries, the fact that it their regent queen is a Bronzebeard will not stop them: they want to subject all dwarves under their command and they will not hesitate to kill those who get in the way.

    And the Alliance will not repeat the same mistake: will punish the Dark Iron wherever they go, they have never been welcome in the lands of the Alliance and no Dark Iron dwarf will live.

    Moira is free to decide who to support, if to the Bronzebeard or to the Thaurissan... that in case she survives.

    The only hope to prevail for the Dark Iron is the Horde. And they will do anything to get their support.
    Okay what no.

    There's literally no sign that they intend to conquer the Alliance militaristically, they'll definitely try to do it through politics but it's ridiculous to assume they're going to try a coup and fail and join the horde.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  7. #47
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    I was under the impression that Moira was denied the throne because she's considered a traitor to Ironforge, and the only reason she's part of the council is because she's the leader of the Dark Irons.

    Basically by marrying Thaurissan she forfeited her right to rule Ironforge.

    Technically I'd think that Muradin should be next in line for the throne, the dispute is between the brother of the king vs the traitor daughter of the king -- Moira IS the rightful heir, but her actions throw that into contention. I think the general idea is that the council will rule until Moira's son is old enough to take the throne.
    No she is the legitimate heir,even before Muradin she was never disowned as such she remains the heir of Ironforge before everyone else. Varian had no right at all to interfere into dwarven business.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    I was under the impression that Moira was denied the throne because she's considered a traitor to Ironforge, and the only reason she's part of the council is because she's the leader of the Dark Irons.

    Basically by marrying Thaurissan she forfeited her right to rule Ironforge.

    Technically I'd think that Muradin should be next in line for the throne, the dispute is between the brother of the king vs the traitor daughter of the king -- Moira IS the rightful heir, but her actions throw that into contention. I think the general idea is that the council will rule until Moira's son is old enough to take the throne.
    There is some quest dialog and NPC dialog I think that says only male heirs can ascend to the throne. In which Moira's son is the rightful heir to his grandfather's throne.
    Been a really really long time since I've played/leveled a dwarf.

    Muradin (or Brann, which ever is the older of the two) would be next in line if Moira did not have a son.
    My name is Cernunnos, I will love you like no other, I have died a thousand deaths, each time I died I thought of you.

  9. #49
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cernunnos View Post
    There is some quest dialog and NPC dialog I think that says only male heirs can ascend to the throne. In which Moira's son is the rightful heir to his grandfather's throne.
    Been a really really long time since I've played/leveled a dwarf.
    There is no such thing.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    There is no such thing.
    Could have sworn there was. Haven't played a dwarf in over 3 years.



    It's mentioned in the novel the Shattering.
    Last edited by Cernunnos; 2013-02-03 at 02:36 AM.
    My name is Cernunnos, I will love you like no other, I have died a thousand deaths, each time I died I thought of you.

  11. #51
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cernunnos View Post
    Could have sworn there was. Haven't played a dwarf in over 3 years.



    It's mentioned in the novel the Shattering.
    No it's not.

    I read the novel.

    It's not.

    She has MORE right than Muradin.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  12. #52
    The Lightbringer Humbugged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    1. Moira is the daughter of Magni but she married the leader of the Dark Irons, Dagran Thaurissan. We get to kill him, and her, at the end of the Blackrock Depths dungeons.
    2. I can only guess that the event hasn't been updated. Or they are rebel Dark Irons maybe?
    3. As above I guess.
    Moira dying isn't canon. You can kill her, but its not part of the original quest objective. You go there to save her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manakin View Post
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    - Manakin.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Varian had no right at all to interfere into dwarven business.
    From what I understand Varian 'interfered' because an Alliance nation was under attack.

    Lets use a real-world analogy: Say for example Prince Charles of England ran off and married the Dutch queen and the english hated him for it, branded him a traitor, and after his mother died he came back with an army and tried to forcibly take over england. Are you saying it would be wrong for France, America etc to go to help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    She has MORE right than Muradin.
    One would think that the people of Ironforge hate her and won't stand for her being queen, regardless of her "right". This is why the council was created.
    Last edited by Netherspark; 2013-02-03 at 04:21 AM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    From what I understand Varian 'interfered' because an Alliance nation was under attack.

    Lets use a real-world analogy: Say for example Prince Charles of England ran off and married the Dutch queen and the english hated him for it, branded him a traitor, and after his mother died he came back with an army and tried to forcibly take over england. Are you saying it would be wrong for France, America etc to go to help?
    For England that example may work. But if you go into France with an army, that's another story. lol

  15. #55
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    From what I understand Varian 'interfered' because an Alliance nation was under attack.

    Lets use a real-world analogy: Say for example Prince Charles of England ran off and married the Dutch queen and the english hated him for it, branded him a traitor, and after his mother died he came back with an army and tried to forcibly take over england. Are you saying it would be wrong for France, America etc to go to help?
    The problem is the dwarves didn't want her gone, they acknowledged her, even though they did not like her methods she tried to more or less force the dwarven clans to get along. Varian nearly triggered another civil war with his rash actions.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    So I assume all the bad Dark Irons attacking Brewfest can be dismissed as allies of the Twilight Hammer-friendly faction.
    Or Angry Drunks.

  17. #57
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Varian nearly triggered another civil war with his rash actions.
    Which is ironic when his actions were intended to stop one .

  18. #58
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
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    The only solution is for Moira's son to be assassinated by SI7.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    The only solution is for Moira's son to be assassinated by SI7.
    Brilliant, child assassination. So its ok if the cause is "righteous".

  20. #60
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    The only solution is for Moira's son to be assassinated by SI7.
    If you want a war between Ironforge and Stormwind, go ahead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Which is ironic when his actions were intended to stop one .
    Maybe so, still going in assassinating the legitimate heir to the throne, while she is being accepted by her people really isn't a good idea.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

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