Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
... LastLast
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Tesujin View Post
    There's more than 11 mate....

    Mage = 3
    Warlock = 3
    Hunter = 3
    Warrior = 2
    Death Knight = 2
    Monk = 1
    Paladin = 1
    Shaman = 2
    Druid = 2
    Rogue = 3
    Priest =1

    Pretty sure that all adds up to 23..........Just sayin......

    If it's in the top 7 specs then that means there are still 16 specs behind it...
    There are 11 classes and each class has a best spec, hence the numbering from 1-11. He was using the best specs as a gauge, not all the specs. Which makes more sense to me.

    Signature by Geekissexy Check out her Deviantart

  2. #42
    There are 11 classes and each class has a best spec, hence the numbering from 1-11. He was using the best specs as a gauge, not all the specs. Which makes more sense to me.
    100% correct sir!

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    There are 11 classes and each class has a best spec, hence the numbering from 1-11. He was using the best specs as a gauge, not all the specs. Which makes more sense to me.
    First of all - that's a strange POV, because, say, druids or shamans can't switch between their melee and range DPS specs that easily based on which one is the "best" ATM. Also, if you want to count it this way, you should take into the account that all 3 mage specs have higher DPS on paper, so if you only take one of them into consideration, we're like 5th, which is higher than "middle of the pack".

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by SolTheDruid View Post
    First of all - that's a strange POV, because, say, druids or shamans can't switch between their melee and range DPS specs that easily based on which one is the "best" ATM. Also, if you want to count it this way, you should take into the account that all 3 mage specs have higher DPS on paper, so if you only take one of them into consideration, we're like 5th, which is higher than "middle of the pack".
    I simply searched "current dps rankings wow"

    Clicked on Raidbots http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/


    1 Warlock Affliction

    2 Mage Arcane

    3 Warrior Fury

    4 Rogue Assassination

    5 Death Knight Frost

    6 Rogue Combat

    7 Priest Shadow

    8 Druid Balance

    9 Monk Windwalker

    10 Mage Fire

    11 Paladin Retribution

    12 Shaman Enhancement

    13 Druid Feral Cat

    14 Warlock Destruction

    15 Warlock Demonology

    16 Hunter Survival

    17 Hunter Beast Mastery

    18 Shaman Elemental

    19 Death Knight Unholy

    20 Rogue Subtlety

    21 Hunter Marksmanship

    22 Mage Frost

    23 Warrior Arms

    Ok so our best placing spec is number 16 atm.

    and as for classes, a Warlock, Mage, Warrior, Rogue, Death Knight, Priest, Druid, Monk, Paladin, Shaman are in front of us.... hang on wait, does that make us 11th out of 11 classes <.<

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by darcubus View Post
    I simply searched "current dps rankings wow"

    Clicked on Raidbots http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/


    1 Warlock Affliction

    2 Mage Arcane

    3 Warrior Fury

    4 Rogue Assassination

    5 Death Knight Frost

    6 Rogue Combat

    7 Priest Shadow

    8 Druid Balance

    9 Monk Windwalker

    10 Mage Fire

    11 Paladin Retribution

    12 Shaman Enhancement

    13 Druid Feral Cat

    14 Warlock Destruction

    15 Warlock Demonology

    16 Hunter Survival

    17 Hunter Beast Mastery

    18 Shaman Elemental

    19 Death Knight Unholy

    20 Rogue Subtlety

    21 Hunter Marksmanship

    22 Mage Frost

    23 Warrior Arms

    Ok so our best placing spec is number 16 atm.

    and as for classes, a Warlock, Mage, Warrior, Rogue, Death Knight, Priest, Druid, Monk, Paladin, Shaman are in front of us.... hang on wait, does that make us 11th out of 11 classes <.<
    No it doesn't because raid bots interpreted in that way is unreliable. Statistical bias is deluding the rankings and skewing them. If you actually look at fight mechanics and stuff, you can see that those rankings are wrong. On every fight with a % damage buff (namely H stone guard and H protectors) we benefit negatively from it in comparison to the other classes. Our line is lower than it should be for that reason.

    Signature by Geekissexy Check out her Deviantart

  6. #46
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Brawl Pub
    Posts
    3,649
    Any ranking which puts SV as a better spec as BM should indicate to you how idiotic the ranking system is. Raidbots is horrible proof of anything.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Any ranking which puts SV as a better spec as BM should indicate to you how idiotic the ranking system is. Raidbots is horrible proof of anything.
    It's only saying it's better because of the reason I mentioned above and how the % damage buff benefits SV more than BM because of our stupid pets. The data is there, but it isn't being interpreted right.

    Signature by Geekissexy Check out her Deviantart

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by darcubus View Post
    and as for classes, a Warlock, Mage, Warrior, Rogue, Death Knight, Priest, Druid, Monk, Paladin, Shaman are in front of us.... hang on wait, does that make us 11th out of 11 classes <.<
    may I ask how representive that is? are you then absolutly always last on DPS meters? I dunno, being one guy which raids in a guild with 2 10m raids isn't very representive, but I for my part normally have quite interesting DPS duells, fighting for good ranks (behind locks+mages ofc). not saying where a clear 3rd, not at all, but the field is quite near. player skill and gear difference seem often the bigger factor then the class. (well, appart from class-specific fights, like cleavefights for melees)

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    may I ask how representive that is? are you then absolutly always last on DPS meters? I dunno, being one guy which raids in a guild with 2 10m raids isn't very representive, but I for my part normally have quite interesting DPS duells, fighting for good ranks (behind locks+mages ofc). not saying where a clear 3rd, not at all, but the field is quite near. player skill and gear difference seem often the bigger factor then the class. (well, appart from class-specific fights, like cleavefights for melees)
    Sure, Tbh it's like Tehstool said, Statistical bias is deluding the rankings and skewing them. But at the same time these may be skewed but not entirely incorrect either. Yes we all know that certain fights will be beneficial for some class/spec combos, yes hunters will do better and be closer to the top on heavy movement fights, yada yada yada.

    But the fact is, hunters are not 5th in all the class spec combos as an average. They ARE middle of the pack or lower, which is not "omg the sky is falling", it's just as it is atm, at this very top end lvl of raiding.

    Does this effect most people, probably not, but it still does not discount the fact that someone playing with the same skill lvl, on an average, can perform better dps from a different class atm.

    Lastly Raidbots is far from perfect, I never said it was gospel, simply stated what I did following a "current dps rankings wow" search. Like I said, it's not perfect, but it's not overly incorrect. And yes, SV can and will outperform BM in certain fights, even sometimes as an average. But here it only puts it a fraction above, it's not like it's placed it at 2nd or 3rd in the data. -_-

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by darcubus View Post
    They ARE middle of the pack or lower, which is not "omg the sky is falling", it's just as it is atm, at this very top end lvl of raiding.
    Yet still the "sky is falling" attitude is dominant in hunter forums, since lots of people can't see the bigger picture OR can't play this (arguably the easiest) class.

    Quote Originally Posted by darcubus View Post
    Does this effect most people, probably not
    Exactly! Let's put it this way: unless you play in some nolife hardcore guild, you'll always play with a mixed setup of good and bad players, which always leaves you the opportunity to be top in your raid. Yes, if you have a very skilled warlock in your raid, you'll probably never be top until 5.2, but hey it's not something new. There's always been some OP spec in this game that absolutely stomped everyone else. And let's not pretend hunters have never been in this position. -_-

    Also, I personally don't want hunters to be absolute top, like current affli warlocks. I remember playing boomkin back in the beginning of Cata, after SV hunters got nerfed. I was like 20% ahead of any other class in our 25 ppl raid and the only guy who I could compete with was another owl. That's not fun at all. The current state of things that actually has a lot of room for competition is way better.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by bewsh View Post
    Aspects are not on the GCD.
    When did this happen? I must have missed the announcement. I know they were not on GCD during Cataclysm, then they were on GCD since the pre-MoP patch and since removal of Fox aspect, I didnt really care about aspects anymore...

    Thanks for reply

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepfriedegg View Post
    When did this happen? I must have missed the announcement. I know they were not on GCD during Cataclysm, then they were on GCD since the pre-MoP patch and since removal of Fox aspect, I didnt really care about aspects anymore...

    Thanks for reply
    Iirc they were taken off the GCD (again) with 5.0, AotF got removed entirely with 5.1. They were on the GCD only during the beta (and during Vanilla/TBC, not sure about WotlK).

  13. #53
    Yet still the "sky is falling" attitude is dominant in hunter forums,
    Actually its dominant in every class forums... the Mages tears when fire got nerfed from Godhood to normal was insane, the complaints about Arcane now are insane yet they are top damage, hell there was even a Warlock on tweeter asking GC why he has neglected Locks this whole expansion and why wont he give them some love... GC literally laughed at him in response.

    can't play this (arguably the easiest) class.
    Trying to stir the pot much? lol

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    You probably never did heroic then because hunters did not drop frost. Almost every single group had a DK pull them down to the back side of the boss and they were killed there. No hunter was solely assigned to dropping frost in heroic.

    We were assigned to certain adds to misdirect to the tank though.
    How does saying "I don't remember that" equate to never having done heroic? Wut?
    Last edited by Beebeey; 2013-02-05 at 07:10 PM.


  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    You probably never did heroic then because hunters did not drop frost. Almost every single group had a DK pull them down to the back side of the boss and they were killed there. No hunter was solely assigned to dropping frost in heroic.

    We were assigned to certain adds to misdirect to the tank though.
    wrong...regardless of class in h you wanted someone that knew what they were doing dropping the frosts..

    granted the dk strat sounds good ..but i always did the frosts ..and yeah we did md the adds to the ot as well


    ps,,gotta chime in with this now as well..this is the new hunter "injoke"..

    went a firelands pug achieve run and afterwards the rl wants me to hunter for his new guild hes making right on the mop release

    so i join up and begin to notice hes pretty good at raidleading and doing good dps ..but ..theres a feeling of "impatience" in some fights..

    three weeks after mop launches ..he stops playing..i thought he'd moved on to dps in a more established guild..get pulled through..

    but no they tell me he's sold his account..and the healer comfirmed that he actually bought the account 6 mths earlier

    so i told the healer.." how could i know?... after all he's playing a dk"....
    Last edited by badrobot; 2013-02-05 at 10:08 PM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by GlowingInTheDark View Post
    Yet still the "sky is falling" attitude is dominant in hunter forums, since lots of people can't see the bigger picture OR can't play this (arguably the easiest) class.


    Exactly! Let's put it this way: unless you play in some nolife hardcore guild, you'll always play with a mixed setup of good and bad players, which always leaves you the opportunity to be top in your raid. Yes, if you have a very skilled warlock in your raid, you'll probably never be top until 5.2, but hey it's not something new. There's always been some OP spec in this game that absolutely stomped everyone else. And let's not pretend hunters have never been in this position. -_-

    Also, I personally don't want hunters to be absolute top, like current affli warlocks. I remember playing boomkin back in the beginning of Cata, after SV hunters got nerfed. I was like 20% ahead of any other class in our 25 ppl raid and the only guy who I could compete with was another owl. That's not fun at all. The current state of things that actually has a lot of room for competition is way better.
    Most who scream that the sky is falling fail at interpreting data correctly or look at rankings at face value and not the actual difference between the top and bottom or anywhere between.

    Hunters could certainly use a buff but it's not like we're 20% behind "competitive" like some seem to think. Just a few minor (3-5% increases for Marks and Surv and a slight bump to Beast AOE) puts us right where we need to be.

  17. #57
    The Patient Madwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    210
    Quote Originally Posted by spiattalo View Post
    Iirc they were taken off the GCD (again) with 5.0, AotF got removed entirely with 5.1. They were on the GCD only during the beta (and during Vanilla/TBC, not sure about WotlK).
    Here's how it happened in reality:

    Blizz: Hai Hunters, we're going to put Aspects on GCD.
    Hunters: That's an awful idea. That's going to really hurt.
    Blizz: WHATEVER, we're going to wait and see mmmkkay?

    They put it in for like 5.0 and then hotfixed it out like a week later, and acted all shocked that it hurt Hunters soooo much in PvP and PvE. It's like they don't even test our crap sometimes. It's very frustrating as a player.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 10:29 PM ----------

    Simulation Craft did a 5.1 DPS rankings and came up with this list (as ordered by best class spec by me)

    1. Mage
    2. Monk
    3. Warlock
    4. Warrior
    5. Shaman
    6. DK
    7. Rogue
    8. Druid
    9. Hunter
    10.Paladin
    11.Priest

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by jax View Post
    Actually its dominant in every class forums... the Mages tears when fire got nerfed from Godhood to normal was insane, the complaints about Arcane now are insane yet they are top damage, hell there was even a Warlock on tweeter asking GC why he has neglected Locks this whole expansion and why wont he give them some love... GC literally laughed at him in response.
    Except they admitted hunters needed changes, so it's a little different from other classes.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 04:57 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Madwolf View Post
    Here's how it happened in reality:

    Blizz: Hai Hunters, we're going to put Aspects on GCD.
    Hunters: That's an awful idea. That's going to really hurt.
    Blizz: WHATEVER, we're going to wait and see mmmkkay?

    They put it in for like 5.0 and then hotfixed it out like a week later, and acted all shocked that it hurt Hunters soooo much in PvP and PvE. It's like they don't even test our crap sometimes. It's very frustrating as a player.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 10:29 PM ----------

    Simulation Craft did a 5.1 DPS rankings and came up with this list (as ordered by best class spec by me)

    1. Mage
    2. Monk
    3. Warlock
    4. Warrior
    5. Shaman
    6. DK
    7. Rogue
    8. Druid
    9. Hunter
    10.Paladin
    11.Priest
    Any fight with multiple targets to DOT/Cleave and priest, druid and rogue shoot up. We don't have that luxury.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by GlowingInTheDark View Post
    Exactly! Let's put it this way: unless you play in some nolife hardcore guild, you'll always play with a mixed setup of good and bad players, which always leaves you the opportunity to be top in your raid. Yes, if you have a very skilled warlock in your raid, you'll probably never be top until 5.2, but hey it's not something new. There's always been some OP spec in this game that absolutely stomped everyone else. And let's not pretend hunters have never been in this position. -_-

    Also, I personally don't want hunters to be absolute top, like current affli warlocks. I remember playing boomkin back in the beginning of Cata, after SV hunters got nerfed. I was like 20% ahead of any other class in our 25 ppl raid and the only guy who I could compete with was another owl. That's not fun at all. The current state of things that actually has a lot of room for competition is way better.
    So you're saying hunters should actively seek out bad players in order to feel accomplished?
    Let's not pretend please, we chose a pure DPS class for a reason, DPS is what we do and what we enjoy the most.

    If a warlock on same skill/gear level as me will continuously shit on me, that's not fine. And I'm not a doomsday-calling person with arbitrary numbers like 20% over etc, but even 5% over me despite same effort doesn't sit well with me as an idea.

    Ideal situation would be all DPS classes/specs being within 0.5/1% of each other, leaving the winners to those who put in an extra mile/get lucky with RNG etc.
    That's not going to happen anytime soon as Blizz is notoriously bad at balancing.

    So until that time (I'm still trying to be an optimist here), we shouldn't just bend over and take the middle pack and shrug.
    Mages may QQ a whole lot, but their tears accomplish stuff, I can't remember a tier where mages were actively put out on all 3 specs.

    I wouldn't even rant if not for the whole "we know stuff's wrong, but we're not changing anything for now" GC blunder. Lolwut?
    Quote Originally Posted by Health View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thereign View Post
    Besides, you don't gain any knowledge of a useful spec if you level as BM
    When you're asleep, me and an enchancement shaman are gonna enter your room and beastcleave you to tears.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by badrobot View Post
    wrong...regardless of class in h you wanted someone that knew what they were doing dropping the frosts..
    granted the dk strat sounds good ..but i always did the frosts ..and yeah we did md the adds to the ot as wel
    I think it's even funnier hearing that when you actually have your Tribute achieve too lol.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •