Page 1 of 6
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Are we starting to see a new trend with hunters? The class of mid tier hotfixes

    This merely just my opinion and only based on my past experience between the Devs and Hunters, but it is starting to feel like we're a class that "feels" complete to the devs but is only later finally looked at once top guilds stop bringing hunters because of progression.

    This first problem started in Firelands where survival was buffed slightly in a hot fix, and then moved on to Dragonsoul where we "felt fine" and then mid way through it was clear hunters were largely behind the other classes and brought up to par, then it happened again with this tier but it took much more time and what seemed like much more convincing and logs to prove that we were behind. And it happened through hotfixes a week after 5.1.

    Now we don't really know what 5.2 will bring yet, but it's clear that blizzard feels like hunters are "fine" with the lack of changes, yet they even made it clear that they want to make changes to the class. Now my problem with this isn't that we're going to get changes, it's that we're going to get changes in 5.3 or small hotfixes which is I believe is completely wrong. I don't want hunters to be the class that is only looked at with hotfixes and mid tier patches, while everyone else is polished up.

  2. #2
    Brewmaster Indiglo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Pataskala, OH
    Posts
    1,381
    I noticed this too, granted I don't play near as much as I use to, but the lack of changes has me worried. Time will tell I suppose, the patch isn't live yet but if they were going to change something they would;ve already announced it i'd like to think.

  3. #3
    We can bring it further back to the week of Aimed Shot or even to volley being nerfed into shit or rebuffed in TOGC

  4. #4
    Wait wait wait, they buffed Volley in TotGC? The raid with practically no AOE situations and absolutely zero trash?
    Omnipotent WCL || Omnipotent Site - Support our streams! || Worst Btag Ever: Slenderman#1355 || Temporarily retired from raiding. Soon™.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremypwnz View Post
    Wait wait wait, they buffed Volley in TotGC? The raid with practically no AOE situations and absolutely zero trash?
    Heroic Anub'arak


    Megarises <Dread> US 16th 11/13 HM
    Founder of the "Swag Wagon" channel Korgath's most exclusive chat channel.
    Megazordd#1177 Twitch.tv/megazordd

  6. #6
    It will inevitably happen. Hunters will be considered perfectly fine by the devs, only to realize mid tier what Hunters are a tad low, despite people bringing it up during the actual testing.

    I'd like to see a slight bump in Surv and Mark's single target output and a slight bump to Beast's AoE. Hunters aren't down very much but they (mainly Surv and Marks) could certainly use a few % boost upwards.

  7. #7
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    165
    With the huge amount of scaling issues, and lack of input from Blizzard on hunter's I'm afraid it seems this will happen. We really aren't in an absolutely terrible position right now overall, but there are definitely some issues they are just not addressing.

  8. #8
    Not to wake all the sleeping beauties here, but they only have been doing PvP-oriented change so far. The clearly said they haven't begun to touch PvE yet.

    Have faith, that's the only thing we can do.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by spiattalo View Post
    Not to wake all the sleeping beauties here, but they only have been doing PvP-oriented change so far. The clearly said they haven't begun to touch PvE yet.

    Have faith, that's the only thing we can do.
    that worked well with 5.1 then they had to hotbuff the class just so they were allowed to have raid spots.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    that worked well with 5.1 then they had to hotbuff the class just so they were allowed to have raid spots.
    I may be having a mental blank, but as far as I remember all of the Hunter changes from 5.0 until now have been quality of life changes. Serpent sting got a tiny buff but it was only a very small DPS increase.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    I may be having a mental blank, but as far as I remember all of the Hunter changes from 5.0 until now have been quality of life changes. Serpent sting got a tiny buff but it was only a very small DPS increase.
    Yes, but I was referring to 5.2 so far. Sorry for not being clear.

  12. #12
    Here is something that is constantly neglected: why add new pets and new spirit beasts without expanding the current stable slots. Cmon now, it took years for the first expand do we really need to wait that many more?
    Trust your doubt. Always fight for your beliefs. That is the path beyond thought.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    I may be having a mental blank, but as far as I remember all of the Hunter changes from 5.0 until now have been quality of life changes. Serpent sting got a tiny buff but it was only a very small DPS increase.
    The AotH and Serpent Sting buffs combine for roughly ~8% more single target dps. That's not exactly very small.

  14. #14
    our unrstricted mobility makes up for our lacking dps. in a standstill fight, we haven't got a chance to top the meters when mages, owls and whatnot are around. only when mobility is added we're in a sweet spot. i really hope they won't change it anymore, but balance us with that in mind. i don't know about 5.2 bosses, but at the moment, there're plenty of movement intensive (herioc) bosses. i finally feel useful, and our arcane mage's tears are delicious (he always complains about movement hrhrhr)

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ril-gania View Post
    our unrstricted mobility makes up for our lacking dps. in a standstill fight, we haven't got a chance to top the meters when mages, owls and whatnot are around. only when mobility is added we're in a sweet spot. i really hope they won't change it anymore, but balance us with that in mind. i don't know about 5.2 bosses, but at the moment, there're plenty of movement intensive (herioc) bosses. i finally feel useful, and our arcane mage's tears are delicious (he always complains about movement hrhrhr)
    I wouldn't necessarily say the removal of Fox was such a large gain, nor should be held against us so much in PvE, considering Hunter's main shots were instant cast and players were circumventing the Aspect system by use of macros. The only thing the change actually did was allow us 15% more AP on our Cobras/Steadies on the move. Our instant casts were still being fired in Aspect of the (Iron)Hawk. It was largely a QoL change so Hunters, and their raid, didn't have to hear CAWCAWCAWHISSHISSCAWHISSCAW while the Hunter was mobile, and so that Hunters didn't have to make macros on their shots just to handle movement to completely skip a mechanic that was flawed to begin with. Players have been doing that since T11. They just finally did something about it.

    But yeah, upping Survival's single target by about 3% (since it's AoE is pretty damn good,) Marks by 5-6%, and Beast's AoE a bit would put the class in better shape going into the next patch.
    Last edited by Bullettime; 2013-02-02 at 06:46 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Ril-gania View Post
    our unrstricted mobility makes up for our lacking dps. in a standstill fight, we haven't got a chance to top the meters when mages, owls and whatnot are around. only when mobility is added we're in a sweet spot. i really hope they won't change it anymore, but balance us with that in mind. i don't know about 5.2 bosses, but at the moment, there're plenty of movement intensive (herioc) bosses. i finally feel useful, and our arcane mage's tears are delicious (he always complains about movement hrhrhr)
    If your arcane mage is behind you in similar gear, he is doing something very wrong. I think the only boss we can pull ahead of mages on is Blade lord and that's because they can't DPS while running from the vortex.

  17. #17
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Twisting Nether
    Posts
    674
    Sure hunters are the class of mid patch hotfix changes...along with every other class in game. May I remind you of warriors this expac? Arguably the class with the most mid patch changes? Or fire mages, demo locks, spriests, disc priests, monks, etc.

    Not trying to antagonize, but blizz changes things with hotfixes. Hunters aren't the only class and even if they were, seems like a rather odd thing to complain about. The alternative would be no changes for months on end, in the style of rets or unholy DKs.

    Also consider that hunters have historically been hard to balance. A single target ranged class with no real multi dot capabilities, pets that account for up to 50% of overall damage, and a previously horrendous problem with scaling (starting off nearly OP early on while falling behind later) which was fixed in mop.

    The design space for hunters is weird because they are in a position that no other class is in. Being ranged is a huge advantage, but pets can cause huge problems on some fights. Add to this that nearly all their damage is single target, coupled with the best mobility of any class in game and you have a class that's really hard to balance, especially when accounting for PvP.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    Sure hunters are the class of mid patch hotfix changes...along with every other class in game. May I remind you of warriors this expac? Arguably the class with the most mid patch changes? Or fire mages, demo locks, spriests, disc priests, monks, etc.

    Not trying to antagonize, but blizz changes things with hotfixes. Hunters aren't the only class and even if they were, seems like a rather odd thing to complain about. The alternative would be no changes for months on end, in the style of rets or unholy DKs.

    Also consider that hunters have historically been hard to balance. A single target ranged class with no real multi dot capabilities, pets that account for up to 50% of overall damage, and a previously horrendous problem with scaling (starting off nearly OP early on while falling behind later) which was fixed in mop.

    The design space for hunters is weird because they are in a position that no other class is in. Being ranged is a huge advantage, but pets can cause huge problems on some fights. Add to this that nearly all their damage is single target, coupled with the best mobility of any class in game and you have a class that's really hard to balance, especially when accounting for PvP.
    you failed to note that every class changed BUT hunters were all grossly OP and had to be nerfed down, hunters got nearly a 10% buff and it took that just to get hunters to be allowed in raids.


    the problem is blizzard apathy tword the class. I know you have not played wow that long but hunters have always been the last to get any kind of attention.

    When 2.0 was about to be released they had "class reviews" where they explained what they were doing with the class for 2.0 and TBC, every class got one but hunters. During TBC hunters were told they wanted them not to run on mana and not have to buy arrows, that took nearly 4 years to deliver on.

    They have built 2 classes from scratch and still not done things to hunters that were talked about 8 years ago. There are also things that have magicaly becomes impossible for blizzard to have in game but they used to be there, not balance things but nice things like a quiver when using a bow, we used to have a visable one but now they are gone and its like they never exsisted. Or here the fact that every physical damage class scales very very well with gear but hunters, hell hunters are one of the only classes in game that do not gem secondary stats because we scale with them so bad. The pet ai is 8 years old and shows it constantly, they also said when 5.0 came out they knew pets were not scaling right and were going to fix it, that has yet to happen.

    Please do not talk about other classes getting changes BECAUSE THEY ARE GETTING CHANGES. Hunters get promises that never happen. In the past 2 months GC has been on twitter the official forums and about half a dozen interviews saying that hunters have too many buttons and they are going too fix that. 5.2 PTR comes around and we get the answer "we don't think we should fix the issue because someone might get butt hurt." I know guys that ave been playing hunters since vanilla beta that a main changing because blizzard is only sure thing is that they will do less then half what they promise to fix hunters. Paragon had a guy post that he was main swaping after years of playing a hunter because of how they are in MOP. Its not just a few people on the forums talking about how hunters are in rough shape, its the best hunters in the world from kennyloggins, Kipp, even Truefire talking about how he had to go to his undergeared mage for progression kills because even a 15 ilvl advantage on a hunter couldn't out DPS a mage. When (at the time) the best geared player in the WORLD is sat because of his class there is a problem with the class.


    You bring up rets and DKs... well paladins have 2 beyond awesome and raid worthy specs, and 2/3 DKs specs are flat OP. So them having a bad spec is not as bad as a class that has 2 specs that can get to the middle of the pack and then 1 spec that cannot even be toyed with because its so bad LFR players will know you suck.


    Hunters are not terrible, however to be compete on a hunter you have to be a better player then everyone else, we have more skills on top of being forced to deal with the retarded pet AI and the fact that most of the mechanics of the heroic fights do not help our pets. Hunters are not asking to be OP, they are simply asking to get the same treatment as other classes. Go look at the patch notes or 5.2 you have multiple pages for every class but hunters, hunters have about 6 lines saying they replaced one mandatory glpyh with another one, nerfing BW AGAIN, and making a small change to AiS that in reality on paper makes it do more damage but in game does basically nothing for the spec.
    Last edited by Nemesis003; 2013-02-03 at 02:17 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    I may be having a mental blank, but as far as I remember all of the Hunter changes from 5.0 until now have been quality of life changes. Serpent sting got a tiny buff but it was only a very small DPS increase.
    The 5% AP buff and the SrS buff was huge. It's not small at all, it's actually pretty big.

    For BM the SrS change was like a 2.5% buff according to my logs and for SV it was like a 7% buff and for AoE, don't even get me started. It's like a 10% buff for SrS for AoE. It's very powerful. Then on top of that we got 5% more AP which increases the damage of all our abilities. Those aren't tiny buffs if you ask me. Then the removal of aspect of the fox increased our dps even further since we can maintain 100% hawk uptime on fights.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-03 at 02:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    nerfing BW AGAIN.
    BW as in bestial wrath? What change are you referencing? I don't think I've seen anything new.
    Last edited by Tehstool; 2013-02-03 at 02:25 PM.

    Signature by Geekissexy Check out her Deviantart

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    The 5% AP buff and the SrS buff was huge. It's not small at all, it's actually pretty big.

    For BM the SrS change was like a 2.5% buff according to my logs and for SV it was like a 7% buff and for AoE, don't even get me started. It's like a 10% buff for SrS for AoE. It's very powerful. Then on top of that we got 5% more AP which increases the damage of all our abilities. Those aren't tiny buffs if you ask me. Then the removal of aspect of the fox increased our dps even further since we can maintain 100% hawk uptime on fights.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-03 at 02:29 PM ----------


    BW as in bestial wrath? What change are you referencing? I don't think I've seen anything new.
    they nerfed it to where BW only breaks CC on the pet doesn't make them immune anymore. 8 years with that ability and PvP QQers get something thats been in since launch changed

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •