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  1. #61
    What's more concerning is that the new Whitemane quest confirms that resurrection, just as we do it to other players, is actually canon. It means that if any (with the possible exception of undead ones) faction leaders die, a handy priest could just pop by and resurrect them.

  2. #62
    There is no "immersion" term in wow outside RP. It's a farming game.
    The Mists of Pandaria coming on September 25

  3. #63
    segregation of gameplay and storyline as well as plot intended direction.

    We supply out own immersion. Rp's give us the tools.

    you cant just say "not from a lore standpoint" for something that IS a lore standpoint.

    because if its just gameplay, then it makes absolute sense. gameplay wise the Garrosh you kill in city attacks and in the raid are two different models with vastly different locations and powers. and no you cant pull "he's the same character" cause he's the same lore wise and we're not talking lore standpoint are we? cant pick and choose where it applies.

    so no he isnt already dead.
    Last edited by Tenjen; 2013-02-02 at 06:30 AM.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Zerdus View Post
    I'm not saying that every little thing needs to be consistent with lore, of course that's not possible. This is much bigger than that, it's not some random mob that respawns, it's a freaking final boss of an expansion. I know that all bosses respawn but in lore, once you kill a boss that boss has been defeated. In this case, Garrosh has been killed many times but he's not actually killed in lore.
    The Allies have killed Thrall many times over...so following your logic, the end of Cata basically couldn't have happened?

  5. #65
    As often as we rez people, this isn't available for bosses? FFS

  6. #66
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerdus View Post
    All right people are just taking what I said and throwing out crazy exaggerations.

    I don't see why it's so hard for you guys to understand what I mean, but I'll quote retype a previous post and add a little more.

    I'm perfectly fine with killing every single other faction leader in the game and having them respawn. I'm also perfectly fine when it's possible "to be a 7 foot tall blue goat-demon monster from outer space that heals wounds dealt to a bear by a monster 10x his size wielding a weapon 3x their weight simply by shining light that you generate out of nowhere on them, all while carrying 5 invisible backpacks filled with 26 stacks of 20 feasts each, and a bottomless invisible stable with hundreds of pets and mounts that you can call on at any time, except where arbitrarily designated that you can not."

    The reason why this one is different is because he's going to be a final boss in a raid. Did we kill Deathwing before Dragon Soul and say it was non canon? Did we kill The Lich King before ICC and say it was non canon? Did we will Illidan before Black Temple and say it was non canon? Did we kill ANY OTHER RAID OR INSTANCE BOSS before their raid or instance, have them respawn, and say it was non-canon?

    THAT is why being able to kill Garrosh now, and ONLY GARROSH, is weird BECAUSE he's going to be a RAID BOSS.
    I get what you mean, I really do, but i think your a confusing future events with current events. If you go kill Garrosh now it's all cool he is just another faction leader like the rest of them, but once the raid comes out he will be a Raid boss and his status on the timeline changes.

    This game is like one long story you experience when leveling up, and each new expansion is supposed to be considered a leap forward in time, that is why you don't see The Lich King run around in Cataclysm, And you don't see Deathwing flying around burning poor random leveling players in MoP, and why you won't see Garrosh as a warchief after the MoP expansion ends.

    After MoP you won't be able to kill him anymore because his status changed and is no longer a faction leader, and it will fit with the story you are doing, but just because you know of future events in the game does not mean they should change the current in-game story before it actually happens.

  7. #67
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    How did this reach a 4th page?

    Seriously.

  8. #68
    Oh come off it, you cannot be serious.

  9. #69
    Technically the alliance has lost

    Ive killed varian, tyrande all the dwarf council including mauridin mekkatorque and valen

    But seriously this is a game you have to use a huge pinch of salt canon wise we dont kill anyone unless the lore says we do

    For the Horde/Alliance is just for PVP its not meant to be canon story wise its just a bit of fun it doesnt mean anything except a cool mount

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Zerdus View Post
    I'm not talking from a lore standpoint. Alliance players can already team up and go kill Garrosh. So doesn't that mean he's dead already? Lots of broken mechanics here, players shouldn't be able to attack him or any other major figure that isn't supposed to die in lore yet.

    Or maybe I'm missing a key piece of information that one of you will enlighten me with. I'm hoping I'm just ignorant and this all makes sense somehow.
    Killing a faction leader in a city raid has 0 lore connotations whatsoever.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 08:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    Technically the alliance has lost

    Ive killed varian, tyrande all the dwarf council including mauridin mekkatorque and valen
    and if I killed Horde leaders before you does that mean Horde has lost?

  11. #71
    Dreadlord Silver-Fox's Avatar
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    I think it's too soon to make a call on Garrosh. I'm thinking, rather, patch 5.3 we see Garrosh do something really nasty. In 5.1 via the new faction questlines we saw Garrosh tamper with powers beyond his full understanding and make some bad decisions. At most I think right now we can perceive Garrosh as incredibly arrogant but I think Blizzard is still building up to the "atrocities" he will commit that send us over the edge.

    Still I'd fight him now after the position he put the Blood Elves in after Dalaran. But I think, story-wise, the Horde still needs convincing as a whole.
    "Enjoy your power"

  12. #72
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    In an immersive world characters are always held accountable for their own actions.

  13. #73
    Moderator Krekko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerdus View Post
    I'm not talking from a lore standpoint. Alliance players can already team up and go kill Garrosh. So doesn't that mean he's dead already? Lots of broken mechanics here, players shouldn't be able to attack him or any other major figure that isn't supposed to die in lore yet.

    Or maybe I'm missing a key piece of information that one of you will enlighten me with. I'm hoping I'm just ignorant and this all makes sense somehow.

    Lore and Game Mechanics are not one in the same.

    For example, Undead Priests really should only be Shadow, not Holy Lorwise. For Game Mechanics, we can't make that happen.

    Sunwalkers (Tauren) would not have the same Skillsets as a Paladin would, but they do, because of game mechanics.


    To break it down even more simply. If you kill another player in PvP or die in PvE, why can you continue to play that same character? Why don't you need to rename them, and start over?

    Because of Game Mechanics. For some that'd be fun but lets be real, that'd be the .00000000000000000001%.


    So sure we kill the racial leaders, but why do they respawn? Why does their reign contiune after that?

    Game Mechanics. Not Lore. Since they are not "Raid bosses" apart of a raid there is no lore attached to killing them and no effect outside of the time they are despawned.
    -Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.
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  14. #74
    Pit Lord Bryntrollian's Avatar
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    tbh I can go to Borean Tundra right now and beat the living shit out of garrosh
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I don't think I know what the acronym "tsg" is. It's not RBG's or Arena, random battlegrounds, or any form of dungeon or raid that I can think of. What does it mean?

  15. #75
    I see where you're going, OP, but this is just a wee bit...silly. If the game were to operate as you've suggested, the first guild to kill any boss would be the _only_ guild to kill that boss, because they're dead, so you can't really go re-kill them, right? C'mon now, the game just can't work that way. Aikoyamamato said it best, immersion is nice, but it has to take a backseat to gameplay very frequently.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Krekko View Post
    Lore and Game Mechanics are not one in the same.

    For example, Undead Priests really should only be Shadow, not Holy Lorwise. For Game Mechanics, we can't make that happen.
    Well its a bad example, because Holy side of Forsaken priests is well explained in quests. They use holy spells through unimaginable pain.
    The Mists of Pandaria coming on September 25

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Zerdus View Post
    I'm not talking from a lore standpoint. Alliance players can already team up and go kill Garrosh. So doesn't that mean he's dead already? Lots of broken mechanics here, players shouldn't be able to attack him or any other major figure that isn't supposed to die in lore yet.

    Or maybe I'm missing a key piece of information that one of you will enlighten me with. I'm hoping I'm just ignorant and this all makes sense somehow.
    Yeah, I was wondering why the alliance is still there.
    I personally killed all leaders like 6 times...... :-)

    There is a huge difference between game-mechanics and lore.

  18. #78
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    He'll probably get a myriad of sha buffs for the Org raid anyway. I doubt the encounter will be anything like his current boss fight.

  19. #79
    I killed Thrall in 2008, Cataclysm makes no sense...

  20. #80
    I have the same problems in FPS games, how come that during gameplay I am god that can withstand bullets, stabwounds, explosions, and everything else that's being thrown at me. During cutscenes however, the tale is quite different, sometimes my character dies by a single bulletwound? I get really worked up over this and thinks it devalues the entire game.

    No wait, that would be silly.
    “The north still reeks of undeath. Our homelands lay in ruin. Pandaria oozes our hatred and doubt. What hope is there for this world when the Burning Legion again lands upon our shores?” - Eric Thibeau

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