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  1. #41
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falrinn View Post
    Almost every race has had a lack of story development for an expansion or two, and honestly we did at least get to explore some of the more Shamanistic side of the Draenei back in Cataclysm (the Alliance side of Vashj'ir was pretty Draenei-tastic if nothing else).
    The problem is that the Draenei as a race have consistently lacked involvement on a scale larger than any other race.
    Also I'm not sure what you're implying with Draenei during Cata, they had next to nothing. Are you referring to Erunak? The problem with him is that again with every Draenei is that he's neutral, we also don't know if he's a part of the Alliance Draenei as many Broken don't affiliate themselves with either faction.
    The Draenei need something that actually cements their position as important members of the Alliance and not a race of neutral Shamans and Priests/Paladins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falrinn View Post
    And while they have mostly retained a token presence in other expansions, even a token presence tells us Blizzard hasn't forgotten the race exists.
    The problem with having a token presence is that it doesn't really add anything to their story besides "they were there". Particularly for the Draenei the question of why they are there in Lion's Landing is an unanswered question, we are not told why they are out in force and what their objective is on Pandaria and their feelings as a people about the current war given their experience with the Orcs.
    To further add to this we've seen no Draenei + Anduin action yet which was something I was very much expecting after Velen's short story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falrinn View Post
    If the next expansion is Burning Legion-centric, then that bodes very well for future Draenei involvement. If it's set on Argus, then it'll practically be the Draenei expansion.
    I hope it is . My concern though is that while I love Turalyon and Anduin the current process of Humans = Alliance will most likely continue which is my main concern.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    The problem is that the Draenei as a race have consistently lacked involvement on a scale larger than any other race.
    Also I'm not sure what you're implying with Draenei during Cata, they had next to nothing. Are you referring to Erunak? The problem with him is that again with every Draenei is that he's neutral, we also don't know if he's a part of the Alliance Draenei as many Broken don't affiliate themselves with either faction.
    The Draenei need something that actually cements their position as important members of the Alliance and not a race of neutral Shamans and Priests/Paladins.
    There was Wavespeaker Valoren in Vashj'ir as well who plays a pretty big role in the Shimmering Expanse. Plus later on we have the recurring character of Earthcaller Yevaa in Deepholme and Twilight Highlands.

    Overall, I just think it's disingenuous to complain about their lack of involvement in the story while at the same time coming up with reasons to discount their involvement in Cataclysm. Shamanism is very much part of Draenei culture whether you want it to be or not, and in Cataclysm was a very Shaman-centric expansion.

    Now I do agree that they might be past due for some more lore, but I don't see any point in making things out to be worse then they actually are.
    Roleplaying, hardcore Raiding, running LFR on the occasional weekend, PvPing, rolling alts, achievement hunting, pet battling, or just enacting an endless series of whims, I don't care how you play WoW. Just as long as you have fun doing it.

  3. #43
    Brewmaster Orangetai420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    We're just one patch into the expansion, hold your horses.
    You act like these races have been given a lot of love and lore in the past.
    Blue text indicates sarcasm or joking.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Falrinn View Post
    Overall, I just think it's disingenuous to complain about their lack of involvement in the story while at the same time coming up with reasons to discount their involvement in Cataclysm. Shamanism is very much part of Draenei culture whether you want it to be or not, and in Cataclysm was a very Shaman-centric expansion.
    no it isnt. shamanism is a very niche and sometimes even shunned part of draenei culture. its a big part of BROKEN culture.

    but as far as draenei go almost none of them are shaman. the light is what makes up the vast majority of their culture they didnt even start to learn shamanism till like 3 years ago >_<
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
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  5. #45
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falrinn View Post
    There was Wavespeaker Valoren in Vashj'ir as well who plays a pretty big role in the Shimmering Expanse. Plus later on we have the recurring character of Earthcaller Yevaa in Deepholme and Twilight Highlands.

    Overall, I just think it's disingenuous to complain about their lack of involvement in the story while at the same time coming up with reasons to discount their involvement in Cataclysm. Shamanism is very much part of Draenei culture whether you want it to be or not, and in Cataclysm was a very Shaman-centric expansion.

    Now I do agree that they might be past due for some more lore, but I don't see any point in making things out to be worse then they actually are.
    But your examples are the problem. Their recent "development" has all been neutral and via the Earthen Ring.
    This is where opinions differ. When I refer to Draenei lore I do not bluntly mean them as a whole race, I refer to those in the Alliance and the actions of those that for and by the Alliance Draenei that are playable for the sake of comparison when somebody refers to Human lore they often are referring to Stormwind Humans whereas in this case it would be like not developing Stormwind at all and telling us that the Argent Crusade or Kirin Tor counts as it. I judge actions such as these based upon the organisation and affiliation. There is currently nothing going with the Alliance Draenei at all.

    If you could name recent Alliance Draenei lore in-game I'd be happy to agree that it's not a problem, but the fact is that atm their current lore is dire.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-02-02 at 06:23 PM.

  6. #46
    You don't even read the quests do you?

  7. #47
    Stood in the Fire
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    That doesn't answer his question at all. Care to elaborate?

  8. #48
    Scarab Lord Humbugged's Avatar
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    Dwarves were more represented in Landfall than Humans..

    Agent Connelly?
    Hilda Hornswaggle?
    Explorer's League at the Ruins of Ogedai, Explorer's League finding the mallet
    Twinbraid?
    Sully "The Pickle"?
    Brann Bronzebeard chasing the Reliquary and discovering the secrets of the Mogu and the divine bell

    Yeah..

    I agree that other races were much more deserving than Blood Elves to receive lore, and Worgen have been basically forgotten. Does Varian even KNOW he has Worgen on his side? Do the Worgen even KNOW they're part of the Alliance? They're like a subcharacter of a subcharacter (Night Elves) its ridiculous.
    Last edited by Humbugged; 2013-02-02 at 08:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manakin View Post
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  9. #49
    one thing to consider is that blizzard said the Isle of the Thunderking will progressively unlock that could mean they will add sub-patches like 5.2.1 and if it works that way new lore that is not yet data-mined could arise.

  10. #50
    Banned Taftvalue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordjust View Post
    They are all things that everyone wants to see in-game but it's impossible to do it all at the same time it happens chronologically. Blizzard has only a limited amount of time to make new content and has to develop key characters for the main plots.
    I dont buy it. A multi billion dollar company like Blizzard should be able to generally bring out new content way faster than they currently do.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    What do you expect? It was afterall the Blood Elf expansion!
    ...which was pretty weak overall storywise, two races were added in BC, and the only thing one of them did outside their starting zone is bail out their supposed enemies, anything else Velen did (training Anduin at holy light stuff and all) happened in stories either online or in books.

    It's a given that one runs out of ideas for a certain race's storyline at some point (unless they're orcs or humans of course), but to do so in the very start of the expansion where said race gets introduced is so lame it's almost funny, and then Blizz repeats the act with Worgen and goblins... :P

  12. #52
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    We're just one patch into the expansion, hold your horses.
    technically, 2, given what we know of the story in 5.2.

    Still its unlikely we're see a large influx of there races getting story development in mists. Gnomes just aren't that important to the story overall, thats why they only got the pre cata event. Worgen.. well its hard to do lore for them outside of gilneas since thats all they had really.

    And draenei will just be focused on the legion.

  13. #53
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    Blizzard bred so many races they can't cope with it.
    "A NAME IS A CLOAK OF LETTERS THROWN UPON A MAN. IT MEANS NOTHING." - Transcendent One, Planescape: Torment.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    technically, 2, given what we know of the story in 5.2.
    I don't think we know all of it yet. However much attention he gets Velen was mentioned to be the person who Varian wanted to heal Anduin and as we know he's up on his feet again and so I'd like to know how they got from A to B and for them to just skip that would be really cheap.

    I think we may see a similar layout to the 5.1 quests, we just haven't seen the one's yet that have you go roaming around Pandaria, I also could've sworn I read that Vol'jin's story would continue in 5.2 I believe.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 11:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Blizzard bred so many races they can't cope with it.
    That sadly is the case.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-02-03 at 12:25 AM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    But your examples are the problem. Their recent "development" has all been neutral and via the Earthen Ring.
    This is where opinions differ. When I refer to Draenei lore I do not bluntly mean them as a whole race, I refer to those in the Alliance and the actions of those that for and by the Alliance Draenei that are playable for the sake of comparison when somebody refers to Human lore they often are referring to Stormwind Humans whereas in this case it would be like not developing Stormwind at all and telling us that the Argent Crusade or Kirin Tor counts as it. I judge actions such as these based upon the organisation and affiliation. There is currently nothing going with the Alliance Draenei at all.

    If you could name recent Alliance Draenei lore in-game I'd be happy to agree that it's not a problem, but the fact is that atm their current lore is dire.
    I think that's the issue I'm trying to point out. When people say the Draenei haven't been involved, they tend to actually mean the Draenei haven't been involved how they want them to be.

    It's actually a pretty important point when it comes down to it, because it's a different problem with a different solution. The solution to the Draenei simply being absent is "add Dreanei", the solution to them not being implemented correctly is to examine how they are currently being implemented and figure out how they should be corrected going forward.

    So our solution isn't "get the Draenei involved" it needs to be something more like "Create a story arc with an Alliance Draenei as the main protagonist" and "Add an Alliance questhub with Draenei architecture and NPC's".
    Roleplaying, hardcore Raiding, running LFR on the occasional weekend, PvPing, rolling alts, achievement hunting, pet battling, or just enacting an endless series of whims, I don't care how you play WoW. Just as long as you have fun doing it.

  16. #56
    Just because an NPC isn't in game, doesn't mean there is no lore.

    Gallywix may not be in Orgrimmar, or anywhere in Azeroth, but he's still around, he's not MIA and he's still in control of the Bilgewater. Read ToW and you'll see him for the big suck up that he is.

    And Gnomes aren't in the story for 'comic relief' as they were back in Vanilla. The Alliance Military has advanced tenfold due to Gnomish innovation. The Alliance Airships and choppers are all Gnomish made, their role in the Second Role was big enough to consider them a valuable ally and their inability to take their Radiated and invaded city back is irrelevant. They will never take Gnomeregan back fully IN game because Blizzard would never remove a dungeon, especially one that has been in game since Vanilla. If you've read the Short story on Gelbin you'll know that the High Tinker defeated (or so we believe) Thermaplugg and was no ready to begin restoration on their city.

    Just because we don't see it happen in game, doesn't mean it's not happening. That's what novels, short stories and background quest text is for.

  17. #57
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    You know, I think something blizzard devs don't want to admit to, but I think they only put certain races in the game and give them a little bit of lore, is because they are more a novelty then anything serious enough.

    Some races in warcraft simply are more integral to the story then others. Races like orcs, humans, night elves, forsaken, they are major races and will always be at the forefront of the story... where as other races like worgen, gnomes, are right at the bottom of the list in terms of importance, and other races like dwarves, tauren, trolls, draenei, they come middleground.

    Dwarves, tauren, trolls and draenei are more likely to be given more lore then worgen or gnomes ever will. And right now, Pandaren are getting more lore then the rest, on par with orcs and humans.

    So, some races are just more a novelty then others, and will never get the kind of lore you expect them to be given, unlike the front runners. It be like trying to write a justice league, but having robin and booster gold and black canary as the main heroes, it wouldn't last, it will always come back to batman and superman and wonder woman in the end, because they are the front runners.

  18. #58
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    Edit: Double post
    Last edited by Psychotrip; 2013-02-03 at 04:11 AM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by dethlyhallows View Post
    I mean they are a part of the Horde/Alliance and yet have been pushed aside. I would of thought that at least the forsaken and dwarf would get a litle sympath and join in, but not even that. It is also sad that Velen isn't even taking a part of the fight. When are the worgen to match strength with the mogu? where are the gnomes in the story, at all?!

    I love Blizzard's story telling, but it gets annoying that the same (dominant) races always come first or "shine brighter" than the rest of the racial leaders. I mean the Humans and the Orcs are nonstop (which is alright since wow is based off of HumansVSOrcs) BUT when are we ever going to see conflict involving the racial leaders left aside? Better yet. When are we EVER going to see any Alliance leaders other than Varian get any spotlight? The horde has its ups and downs but it works, the alliance has yet to see anything about the gnome leader, the worgens or even the damn draeneis! The blood elves are geting a ton of shit and draenei are getting shit (lol.).

    If I am missing something please tell me, but MOP has been the greatest for me but its always going to have that little spot missing the other ALLIANCE leaders actually doing something other than just being there.
    Blizzard forgot about them, most likely.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister J View Post
    Just because an NPC isn't in game, doesn't mean there is no lore.

    Gallywix may not be in Orgrimmar, or anywhere in Azeroth, but he's still around, he's not MIA and he's still in control of the Bilgewater. Read ToW and you'll see him for the big suck up that he is.

    And Gnomes aren't in the story for 'comic relief' as they were back in Vanilla. The Alliance Military has advanced tenfold due to Gnomish innovation. The Alliance Airships and choppers are all Gnomish made, their role in the Second Role was big enough to consider them a valuable ally and their inability to take their Radiated and invaded city back is irrelevant. They will never take Gnomeregan back fully IN game because Blizzard would never remove a dungeon, especially one that has been in game since Vanilla. If you've read the Short story on Gelbin you'll know that the High Tinker defeated (or so we believe) Thermaplugg and was no ready to begin restoration on their city.

    Just because we don't see it happen in game, doesn't mean it's not happening. That's what novels, short stories and background quest text is for.
    No one's arguing that the other races aren't undoubtedly doing things off screen, in minor; implied ways. What we're asking for is more visible representation and lore / character development IN GAME. Sure its nice to see them in stories, but we want to actually EXPERIENCE these things. The short stories dont help rpers who want to experience what their races are doing either. Just give the races that haven't VISIBLY done much some more development and subplots. humans and orcs have MORE than enough as it is, why not give some of that screentime to us? What harm would that cause to add more diversity than we already have?

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