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  1. #181
    >>>>>>> please <<<<<<<<<
    DISTINGUISH
    between
    WOW and US / EU subs
    which
    are
    NOT
    the SAME

  2. #182
    Banned But I Hate You All's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    It is quite evident that the D3 launch had a huge impact. Excluding this launch the last 3 quarters stood at 10.3, 10.2 and 10+ million (up from 9.1 due to MoP).
    The start of cata was at 12 million subs

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Also 2012 was the most challenging year for WOW for 5 reasons:

    - Launch of SW TOR (some expected 2 to 3 million WOW sub losses from those 10.3 million at the end of 2012).
    - Launch of its own Diablo 3 game.
    - Launch of GW2 that would even take top 1 positions (or so they thought) as it has no subs ...
    - Free to play as the NEW standard in almost everything else that had an MMORPG name on it (WoT, the old games, etc...)
    - Non MMO games that are free to play.
    And the combated this

    Vp gear shifted to jp, HOT heroics, Annual pass, SOR with a free 80, LFR, Wow sales left and right, new ROF mount.

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    So what did we see AFTER all this green grass has been published and spread ?
    Stop trying to make it in game vs game

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    We'll see it in just a few days. But if WOW is still at 10M + subs after ALL the above, I reckon you're in for a new hobby...as a WOW hater.

    Ah insults So if I am a "wow hater" for saying wow is in a decline what the fuck are you?
    Last edited by But I Hate You All; 2013-02-03 at 02:22 AM.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by bt4 View Post
    >>>>>>> please <<<<<<<<<
    DISTINGUISH
    between
    WOW and US / EU subs
    which
    are
    NOT
    the SAME
    It is just a matter of time before US and EU will be linked too. And most EU countries pay the same if not more than the US.

    SC2 shows the way: they even deleted the seperate region servers.

    Blizzard next plans is just having one giant server cluster per game.

  4. #184
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Activision cash-on-hand at around or somewhere north of 3.0 billion is about correct. They have no debt at the moment either.

    http://ycharts.com/companies/ATVI/cash_and_equivalents

    Stepping into moderator text for a moment, it's entirely possible for people to discuss this in a civil manner and without reference to other games which inevitably leads to game vs. game shenanigans, infractions and thread closures. Consider yourselves informed. - ML
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  5. #185
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    Why the hell do people care about this so damn much? Seriously get over yourself if you play a game based on its sub numbers.

    OT: I don't really no but I guess the numbers will be the same?
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  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    isnt eve like a space ship mmo where most of the content is driven by what players do O_o
    basically yeah. you log in, and then do southshore-taren mill for a few hours. then set your skills to automatically raise while you aren´t playing. Then maybe go and pay for your subscription with ingame currency. Then you log-out and go to one of your other 30 free accounts and do the same thing.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Alastaircrawly View Post
    And the combated this

    Vp gear shifted to jp, HOT heroics, Annual pass, SOR with a free 80, LFR, Wow sales left and right, new ROF mount.
    i dont thin things like vp gear and lfr and whatnot had much to do with anything since those were planned for quite some time O-O
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Activision cash-on-hand at around or somewhere north of 3.0 billion is about correct. They have no debt at the moment either.

    http://ycharts.com/companies/ATVI/cash_and_equivalents

    Stepping into moderator text for a moment, it's entirely possible for people to discuss this in a civil manner and without reference to other games which inevitably leads to game vs. game shenanigans, infractions and thread closures. Consider yourselves informed. - ML
    If you discuss WOW subscriptions be prepared to place that fact into the "subscription" MMO market of today...

    As free to play is the norm and subscription based games are so rare these days (that even dedicated websites that tracked subscriptions no longer are updated), it is only natural to look into the industry as a whole in numbers, leading automatically to the names of other games.

    It makes no sense to talk about subscriptions (and search the reason of subs within a game mechanic as a so called valid argument) and at the same time ignoring the GENERAL market of other (free to play) games that have a MUCH bigger impact on WOW subscription fees and its staying power.

    In other words: if you talk about WOW subscriptions, you have to look at the industry as a whole. and you can't stay within the limits of in game trivial things like CRZ which have the impact of a mouse when there are 20 hurding elephants around...
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-02-03 at 02:30 AM.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    It is just a matter of time before US and EU will be linked too. And most EU countries pay the same if not more than the US.

    SC2 shows the way: they even deleted the seperate region servers.

    Blizzard next plans is just having one giant server cluster per game.
    i was already grouping EU&US together. The refference was to Asian players which pay much less and on a different model. Russia pays also only 60% of eu players which means 2m eu players = 3m russian players in terms of income. Throwing a single summed sub number arround is a huger oversimplification

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Not sure if that is a typo but WOW dropped to 9.1 million prior to 5.0 when it went back up to 10 million.



    So do you think WOW will gain or lose subs? As Titan is rumoured to be free to play why do think people will pay to play a beta version? If past performance is anything to go by 2014 will bring nothing for several months and towards the end there will be an expansion. 2015 is a long way away and there is no guarantee that the movie will be out by then and that it would appeal to non-WOW players. Free subscription seems like a bad idea to me, the majority of people that go to see the movie will already be subscribers thus they will lose sub money those that are not are unlikely to spend £80 plus buying WOW plus four or five expansions in order take advantage of a free subscription.
    Titan is ´rumored´to be f2p? haha, by whom, all the people who can´t afford $15 per month? There is NO WAY Blizzard would create a MMO and launch it f2p. Remember, Titan was planned when WOW really became runaway successful.. when it was going from 2 to 6M players seemingly over night. I have no doubt, and would bet $100 on the fact that Titan is going to be COD in space with a $15/month subscription. It will definitely be a FPS and will have a theme drastically different than WOW, that way there is no cannablising. Basically Activision looked at all those COD players and said ´wouldn´t it be great if we had them paying $15 per month like the 6M WOW players do.´ My only doubt about Titan is if it will be sci-fi based (laser type weapons) of it will be more modern-type weaponry like CoD.

  11. #191
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    With the financial reporting coming up later this week threads like this are inevitable and fine as long as there aren't multiples. Since I closed the other one that was mildly related to this topic a few hours ago <glares at certain people...you know who you are> this is fine. Forums are about, if nothing else, speculation, opinions and wild guesses.

    Just don't insult one another and stay on topic. -ML [Front-Seat Mod]
    Problem with these things is they often devolve into "X feature caused everyone in my guild to quit, therefor the game died." Which then earns a response of "I like X!" And they just start shouting down each other.
    You don't create "justice" by destroying. That includes buildings, cars, or the careers of the people you want "justice" for.


  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    Titan is ´rumored´to be f2p? haha, by whom, all the people who can´t afford $15 per month? There is NO WAY Blizzard would create a MMO and launch it f2p. Remember, Titan was planned when WOW really became runaway successful.. when it was going from 2 to 6M players seemingly over night. I have no doubt, and would bet $100 on the fact that Titan is going to be COD in space with a $15/month subscription. It will definitely be a FPS and will have a theme drastically different than WOW, that way there is no cannablising. Basically Activision looked at all those COD players and said ´wouldn´t it be great if we had them paying $15 per month like the 6M WOW players do.´ My only doubt about Titan is if it will be sci-fi based (laser type weapons) of it will be more modern-type weaponry like CoD.
    um bty the fact that blizzard was hiring people to put ingame ads into a new mmo.... and that they said they were planning on trying to connect it to facebook... and that its meant to both not be competing with wow and be a much more casual drop in drop out type of game... all those things point to either free to play or some kind of free sub if you have wow
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  13. #193
    Banned But I Hate You All's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Stepping into moderator text for a moment, it's entirely possible for people to discuss this in a civil manner and without reference to other games which inevitably leads to game vs. game shenanigans, infractions and thread closures. Consider yourselves informed. - ML
    Problem with this no offence is the same people keep doing it in different threads. You warn them than they quit till a different thread or they try to tell you game vs game is needed to talk wow subs

  14. #194
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    It makes no sense to talk about subscriptions (and search the reason of subs within a game mechanic as a so called valid argument) and at the same time ignoring the GENERAL market of other (free to play) games that have a MUCH bigger impact on WOW subscription fees and its staying power.
    Markets aren't the same thing as other game titles and speculation about game specifics which generally aren't available isn't overly useful.

    Since I asked nicely, I'm sure you will find a way.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-02-03 at 02:38 AM. Reason: Edited for specificity
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  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    Problem with these things is they often devolve into "X feature caused everyone in my guild to quit, therefor the game died." Which then earns a response of "I like X!" And they just start shouting down each other.
    Yep, while - in reality - the MUCH more important market factors are way more deciding for subscriptions and active player numbers. In this case: the market of subscriptions dried up completely for the vast majority of the industrial players in the field.

    So we are not supposed to talk about these players that went free to play then? For what reason ? To view WOW as an isolated case and that subs are only related to in game issues... ?

    Of course not, but I get the impression that some don't want to pin point the REAL problem of this thread: WOW is STILL a subscription based game with a massive number of paid subscriptions.

    While most of the industry is now down to 0.000.000 subs.

    Quite a deal really.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-02-03 at 02:40 AM.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    What a joke really.

    WOW remaning at 10 million subscriptions in a time where there simply is no more a subscription competition by lack of ... competitors in this bracket (> 500K), you actually make sentences like these ???

    The rest stands at 0.000.000 subs and had to go free to play in order to survive.

    Even COD Elite went free and has no longer a subscription fee dude.

    And this 8 year old game trodds along the same subscription numbers it had for more than 5 years...


    That shows class. Nothing more nothing less.

    We won.
    Hmm, if by "we won" you mean the competition is falling short then the only real winners are Blizzard, the consumer? - Im not so sure. Are you a share holder? if not I find your stance rather odd.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by bt4 View Post
    i was already grouping EU&US together. The refference was to Asian players which pay much less and on a different model. Russia pays also only 60% of eu players which means 2m eu players = 3m russian players in terms of income. Throwing a single summed sub number arround is a huger oversimplification
    Yeah, but Blizzard has been consistent with what it calls a subscriber, basically anyone who has paid any amount of money in the last 30 days. The actual subscription number is largely ignored by the financial analysts.. it is a nice prop, but everyone just wants to see earnings and profit margin.

    Not to shoot myself in the foot as a fanboy, but it is one of the reasons the stock did not dive when they announced subscriptions had dropped so much. Because Blizzard said, and the dollar amounts showed that the vast majority of the subscribers lost were in china, and were probably the lowest paying ones at that. The financials for WOW did not look anywhere near as bad as you would think with a 20% subscriber loss. In fact, if Blizzard had not announced the subscription numbers being down, you wouldn´t have even been able to tell it by their profits that quarter.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Attsey View Post
    Hmm, if by "we won" you mean the competition is falling short then the only real winners are Blizzard, the consumer? - Im not so sure. Are you a share holder? if not I find your stance rather odd.
    Nah, it is just a general joke after having to endure "WOW killers" for 7 years in a row now. There was this thread once where every new game that would launch had its "we will kill WOW with this game post".

    I always said: we will kill your game first dude.

    It is kidding really.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-02-03 at 02:47 AM.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    um bty the fact that blizzard was hiring people to put ingame ads into a new mmo.... and that they said they were planning on trying to connect it to facebook... and that its meant to both not be competing with wow and be a much more casual drop in drop out type of game... all those things point to either free to play or some kind of free sub if you have wow
    where were they hiring people to put ingame ads in a new MMO? Where did they say they were connecting Titan to facebook? Where did they say it would be a ´drop in drop out´ type of game?

    You make 4 statements, 1 of which is common sense ( they don´t want to compete with WOW) and then 3 others that are not from Blizzard at all... and then make those 3 false statements proof that your comment is correct? Blizzard never said those things.

    Then you have to look at the other silly evidence. Two of the first developers to move over to the new project were hardcore raiders who were responsible for Vanilla being so heavily raid-centric and hardcore. Yep, those are the types of guys you want building wowville. The other evidence is Zynga. you really think Blizzard (ie greedy bastards) are going to abandon the WOW subscription model and instead follow a company that has gone from IPO to near bankruptcy in 2 years? Plants-vz-zombies, angry birds, farmville are all really cool games that made a quick buck for their developers.. but they aren´t even a whif of what WOW makes. Blizzard did not spend 3-4 years already developing a MMO to mimic farmville.

    Also, aside from DDO, there is no evidence that F2P MMOs actually can earn a profit. DDO was the first AAA game to make the switch, so drew a lot of attention.. but EQ2, AOC, TSW and SWTOR have all made the switch and none of them are even significant to talk about as far as overall players, let alone having the profit margin of WOW or even what they had before they went f2p. They hype around f2p MMOs all began and ended with DDO, the only one where the developers actually said profits increased.. 4 years ago.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    Not to shoot myself in the foot as a fanboy, but it is one of the reasons the stock did not dive when they announced subscriptions had dropped so much. Because Blizzard said, and the dollar amounts showed that the vast majority of the subscribers lost were in china, and were probably the lowest paying ones at that. The financials for WOW did not look anywhere near as bad as you would think with a 20% subscriber loss. In fact, if Blizzard had not announced the subscription numbers being down, you wouldn´t have even been able to tell it by their profits that quarter.
    That's interesting. Wonder if that was the start of the exclusive adjustments to asian servers to fix those drops. It's pretty clear that they play different, if the reception differs enough to show so much influence on customers then adjusting the game to the regions playerbase seems worth the effort.

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