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  1. #21
    Mechagnome kleinlax21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dethox View Post
    I know this might sound crazy, but have you actually thought of, you know, gearing towards pvp? Just like a full pvp person doe's shit numbers in pve, the same applies viceversa.
    It's funny how some expect and even DEMAND ( man, the nerve! ) to be able to immediately jump into pvp and expecting everything to work their way. It's just like all the noobs that always cry about dungeons / raids being to hard / demanding / grindy or w.e. Like everything in life my friend, you'll have to work towards it in order to be successful. This idea basically applies to every aspect of life.
    I would assume that those experiences he detailed did include him having a full set of PvP gear.

    OT: I'd love to see burst nerfed through a resilience buff, and healing nerfed to compensate. However, I think that the second battle fatigue nerf caused more problems than it solved, and I am hesitant to suggest further nerfs to healing as a result of this. I think that healers are, overall, slightly underpowered and could use a relative 5-10% buff, mainly due to remaining outlier classes like Mages, Warr's, Spriests, and BM still retaining healthy burst.

    But yes, I definitely support a healthy nerf to the burst in this game. If you're sitting at 63% Resil now, I think a scaling buff up to about 67% Resil would do wonders for the PvP metagame. Don't get me wrong, I love fast-paced PvP, but when the importance of burst outclasses CC, then that's when there is a major problem.
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  2. #22
    klein, you'd think those are the only classes/specs that are bursty. But you need look only as far as the 5.2 ptr to realize that literally ever single dps spec in the game is able to do MORE burst than those 4 can do on live. And resilience/hp hasn't gone up nearly enough to compensate.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  3. #23
    Brewmaster Zaxio's Avatar
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    PvP power and resilience are fine but HP in pvp gear is just terrible I have full updated blue gear + few parts of conquest and have like 350k HP
    PvP gear need increase of HP stat

  4. #24
    Mechagnome kleinlax21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    klein, you'd think those are the only classes/specs that are bursty. But you need look only as far as the 5.2 ptr to realize that literally ever single dps spec in the game is able to do MORE burst than those 4 can do on live. And resilience/hp hasn't gone up nearly enough to compensate.
    Oh, I agree with all of that for sure. And I can definitely see damage scaling beyond Resil/HP this next patch. I'm just unconvinced that healers will need a nerf of equal magnitude.
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Taftvalue View Post
    S8 and we got a deal..
    Doubt that everyone really is that keen on going back to the good wizard times.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by kleinlax21 View Post
    I would assume that those experiences he detailed did include him having a full set of PvP gear.
    I don't want to jump to conclusions, by I wouldn't be surprised if he said he jumped into pvp with hes fresh 90 2 weeks ago. I've seen countless other threads on this subject.
    But to be fair, given the current state of healers plus the ability of some classes to survive / prevent death, it ought to bring even more burst dps. Either that, or scale down the healing for a bit. I don't know how much you pvp, but I'm going to share my personal experience. I'm currently rbging 2.2k+, and in an entire rbg fight, IF one of us has more than 10 kills, that means the enemy team sucked big time.
    I don't know how a full malevolent geared person could say they get critted for more than 100k, because I know for sure that that's straight bull excrement. I myself get critted for max 120-130k from warriors with full reck+avatar and all....I would say 150k, but I'd know I lie.

  7. #27
    Dethox, the experiences I discuss here are assuming equal gear. What I'm talking about right now is with all players in equal tyrannical gladiator gear with tyrannical tier 1 weapons.

    To further iterate my point, I've played with the premades where they have no pvp gear whatsoever. In such scenarios burst is NOT over the top and burst cds don't automatically mean you're going to die with 3-5 seconds.

    As it is, it feels like pvp is balanced around having no pvp gear at all.

    klein, I didn't really mean to include healers in this but you do have a good point that healers got pretty hard with battle fatigue. But with the reduction of burst, heals would see a massive indirect buff and I still think tuning would nbe necessary.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    PvP resilience is getting nerfed slightly in 5.2...
    It is, it's been nerfed on the PTR for 2 builds now, and no-one is talking about it. I've mentionned it on around 5 different websites in the last 2 weeks, and discussion has gone nowhere.

    Scaling has been nerfed and is now diminishing MUCH faster at around 67% onwards. Just a guess, but it looks like it's going to cap at 75% like armor - not that it matters as it looks to require stupid rating to get past 70%.

    Anyway, discuss..

  9. #29
    Mechagnome kleinlax21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dethox View Post
    I don't want to jump to conclusions, by I wouldn't be surprised if he said he jumped into pvp with hes fresh 90 2 weeks ago. I've seen countless other threads on this subject.
    But to be fair, given the current state of healers plus the ability of some classes to survive / prevent death, it ought to bring even more burst dps. Either that, or scale down the healing for a bit. I don't know how much you pvp, but I'm going to share my personal experience. I'm currently rbging 2.2k+, and in an entire rbg fight, IF one of us has more than 10 kills, that means the enemy team sucked big time.
    I don't know how a full malevolent geared person could say they get critted for more than 100k, because I know for sure that that's straight bull excrement. I myself get critted for max 120-130k from warriors with full reck+avatar and all....I would say 150k, but I'd know I lie.
    I would also assume that those numbers come from the 5.2 PTR, but at this point, I'm likely just making an ass out of you and me.
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  10. #30
    Field Marshal
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    I saw Dakkroth dying in a cheapshot on ptr.

  11. #31
    Stood in the Fire Machomaije's Avatar
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    Please use your head before posting. So, what would happend if they nerfed pvp power so "HARD" that you want? Or if they buffed Resi.

    Here is your answer: People would all be gemming for resi, and you would NEVER be able to score a kill.

  12. #32
    Mechagnome kleinlax21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machomaije View Post
    Please use your head before posting. So, what would happend if they nerfed pvp power so "HARD" that you want? Or if they buffed Resi.

    Here is your answer: People would all be gemming for resi, and you would NEVER be able to score a kill.
    Ideally, they would tune it to the middle ground where there isn't excessive burst and people are still able to score kills in a reasonable manner.

    Obviously, the design intent isn't to make people unkillable. Suggesting that as the only possible outcome is quite asinine.
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    Stop dating strippers.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZRebellion View Post
    Kleinlax21 who is on your 'side' had no problem doing so.He also doesn't need to attack me in literally every sentence he types.

  13. #33
    After looking again at some numbers I had from when there was access to higher amounts of Resilience Rating (Old Disc 2 set) the nerf looks something like this

    http://i46.tinypic.com/125osq1.jpg

    Take it with a pinch of salt, it's not exact, but that's how Resilience is on Live (red) compared to PTR (yellow).

    It's a small nerf, but it's still a nerf when there's already too much damage in PvP.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    IF there were no pvp stats AT ALL besides baseline resilience and pvp and pve gave equal ilvl gear then there would be no "forced pve for pvp".
    They don't want PVE gear to be optimal for PVP, but they don't want PVP gear to be optimal for PVE either. Or even close to optimal apparently, which is fine. Power+Resilience is a great solution. If certain abilities are hitting too hard, you nerf those abilities.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by kleinlax21 View Post
    I would also assume that those numbers come from the 5.2 PTR, but at this point, I'm likely just making an ass out of you and me.
    Well the OP was not really specific, so I though about it from 2 perspective, but posted the relevant answer.
    1) If hes talking about live, then the issue is nothing more than the usual gear dispute. I don't need to show numbers as I play the damned game and never got a 100k crit on my mage.
    2) If it's about the ptr, the subject is no longer relevant because things will change fast and dramatically. Just take into account the recent reverts on blanket silences and ring of peace as well as the ever changing number adjustments.
    I've considered to post my previous answer in relation to the number 1), as it was ,obviously, the only relevant one.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Baphomette View Post
    They don't want PVE gear to be optimal for PVP, but they don't want PVP gear to be optimal for PVE either. Or even close to optimal apparently, which is fine. Power+Resilience is a great solution. If certain abilities are hitting too hard, you nerf those abilities.
    I personally think there's no valid or logical reason for why pve gear can't be perfectly viable for pvp and vice versa. But that's a topic for another thread.

    Obviously if they were to nerf pvp power some tuning would be necessary. But there's no doubt whatsoever that the amount of tuning necessary after the proposed change would be a helluvalot less than the tuning necessary NOW with how ridiculous it is.

    Dethox, I've replied to your post and stated that this was in regards to equal gear and specifically about 5.2 tyrannical gear. And please, for the love of god, don't pull the "it's ptr, things will change, don't worry" card because frankly, it has never ever EVER worked. The most broken crap makes it through the ptr, what makes you think a continuation of absurd burst won't.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-02-03 at 03:23 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  17. #37
    how about posting your armory so we can see why you think damage is so out of control for you? Outside of frost mages and feral druids who aren't controlled, I don't feel like burst is as bad of an issue as it was at the start of the expansion, as long as you're gemming for resilience (like you should be).

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by mmmmmmmBacon View Post
    how about posting your armory so we can see why you think damage is so out of control for you? Outside of frost mages and feral druids who aren't controlled, I don't feel like burst is as bad of an issue as it was at the start of the expansion, as long as you're gemming for resilience (like you should be).
    What part of PTR escapes you? Everyone has full tyrannical. And i know where the op is coming from, a rogue can easily drop someone in an opener seen ambush crits for over 120k. Being a ww monk i've seen every FoF crit for 70k on a warrior. Yeah burst is quite absurd and to reply to someones previous comment on resil scaleing better than pvp power, i'm sitting at 61.80% pvp power and 60.20 pvp resil.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    And i know where the op is coming from, a rogue can easily drop someone in an opener seen ambush crits for over 120k.
    Its not the Ambush crits that nails you, its the Shadow Blades and Evis crits with Marked for Death.

    Rogues got buffed too much on PTR so they're more of an exception right now.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    Its not the Ambush crits that nails you, its the Shadow Blades and Evis crits with Marked for Death.

    Rogues got buffed too much on PTR so they're more of an exception right now.
    Guess my combat log was lieing.

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