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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Baphomette View Post
    You are indeed wrong because Power and Resilience are multiplicative, not additive. 61.8% Resilience reduces that 163% damage to 62.3%.

    Resilience CANNOT be negated.

    PVE gear will never become PVP BiS again under the current system.
    Which means that two people in full PvP gear still do 2,3% more damage to one another then two DPS in full PvE gear would do. So we are right now already in a situation where the PvP defense is behind the damage gain and on the PTR defense seems to have been nerfed even more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzor View Post
    The actual problem is CDs being too strong. If we were to nerf PvP power or PvP power you'd never be able to kill someone outside of CDs. It's reidiculous how cooldown stacking makes you do 3 times your damage for 10 seconds.
    You're playing elemental if your signature is right, altough it still says level 85. There's several classes who can and will eventually play a healer oom. Also as a gladiator you ought to know that the game isn't balanced around 1on1 and dps aren't supposed to kill healers solo in a short time.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzor View Post
    The actual problem is CDs being too strong. If we were to nerf PvP power or PvP power you'd never be able to kill someone outside of CDs. It's reidiculous how cooldown stacking makes you do 3 times your damage for 10 seconds.
    Quite right. It's one of the reasons why I have barely done any PvP on my Feral in MoP. Going Berserk + Nature's Vigil + Incarnation to spam 100-200k Ravages is not fun.

    And almost any class/spec has ridiculous cooldowns now. Horrible design.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post

    You're playing elemental if your signature is right, altough it still says level 85. There's several classes who can and will eventually play a healer oom. Also as a gladiator you ought to know that the game isn't balanced around 1on1 and dps aren't supposed to kill healers solo in a short time.
    I'm not sure how this is relevant to what I wrote. Would you care to elaborate?

  4. #84
    PvP power is what allows burst cds to be even more potent than they should be. And anyways, changing burst cds would have insanely heavy repercussions in PvE.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    PvP power is what allows burst cds to be even more potent than they should be. And anyways, changing burst cds would have insanely heavy repercussions in PvE.
    PvP power is what keeps PvE gear out of PvP. It's a great thing that Blizzard finally implemented. Nerfing burst CDs wouldn't do anything to PvE cuz u can simply design the encounters around what abilities classes have.
    I'm not saying they should nerf all CDs by 50% in 5.2 cuz this game is fubar since mop and it needs more work than can be done in a patch

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzor View Post
    PvP power is what keeps PvE gear out of PvP. It's a great thing that Blizzard finally implemented. Nerfing burst CDs wouldn't do anything to PvE cuz u can simply design the encounters around what abilities classes have.
    I'm not saying they should nerf all CDs by 50% in 5.2 cuz this game is fubar since mop and it needs more work than can be done in a patch
    The ONLY reason that pve gear should ever have been left out of pvp is due to legendaries and broken op trinkets (and stats that have already been removed). If pvp started awarding loot equal to pve then there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to keep gear out of one or the other. Hell, it would be better for the game as a whole if a pve player who wants to get into pvp doesn't have to spend weeks dying in battlegrounds to become viable. And vice-versa for a pvp player to get into a raid and compete with the top contenders due to how good he is instead of being carried because of being undergeared.

    Also, pve trinkets/legendaries were always op because of the burst they provided. They managed to make sure that burst became retarded WITHOUT those things with the addition of pvp power. Burst cds have always existed and making every single burst cd different for pvp and pve would hectic as hell (and definitely not something Blizzard is prone to do). What Blizzard IS likely to do is nerf pvp power or buff pvp power thus this thread.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-02-05 at 05:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    The ONLY reason that pve gear should ever have been left out of pvp is due to legendaries and broken op trinkets (and stats that have already been removed). If pvp started awarding loot equal to pve then there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to keep gear out of one or the other. Hell, it would be better for the game as a whole if a pve player who wants to get into pvp doesn't have to spend weeks dying in battlegrounds to become viable. And vice-versa for a pvp player to get into a raid and compete with the top contenders due to how good he is instead of being carried because of being undergeared.

    Also, pve trinkets/legendaries were always op because of the burst they provided. They managed to make sure that burst became retarded WITHOUT those things with the addition of pvp power. Burst cds have always existed and making every single burst cd different for pvp and pve would hectic as hell (and definitely not something Blizzard is prone to do). What Blizzard IS likely to do is nerf pvp power or buff pvp power thus this thread.
    PvE gear is left out of PvP because many PvPers don't want to do PvE to be able to perform in PvP, vice versa for PvEers. How is it a good ting to force people into doing things that they don't care for and don't enjoy? =S The current system is the best it has ever been. I'm sure pretty much everyone who understands the reasoning behind it agrees.

    And no, the difference between damage during CDs and without CDs has never been this huge.
    Last edited by Bobzor; 2013-02-05 at 07:47 PM.

  8. #88
    And why hasn't it ever been this huge? Because of PvP power. I mean, how is this not blatantly obvious?

    And if pvp and pve provide same level gear then there is NO "forcing pvp" or "forcing pve" because you can get the gear you want however you want it.

    The reasoning behind the changes was to make sure that legendaries and pve trinkets didn't make there way into pvp. I can bet you that they will anyways once the op stuff comes around. The reasoning was also that these pve trinkets and legendaries allowed for a lot more burst than pvp gear did. Instead of addressing this concern, they added pvp power which itself added as much if not more burst than legendaries and pve trinkets did. The system is an absolute failure and the worst implementation of anything I've seen in this game.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-02-05 at 08:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  9. #89
    Stood in the Fire Deschim's Avatar
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    Realy? Shadowpriest gona be able to burst people down to????

    Armory
    *If you want to criticize my english, Atleast post something usefull on the topic to*

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Deschim View Post
    Realy? Shadowpriest gona be able to burst people down to????
    Insanity hits HARD. Like 40-50k HITS (per tick) on full tyrannical gear with gemmed resilience and defensive stance.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzor View Post
    I'm not sure how this is relevant to what I wrote. Would you care to elaborate?
    Elemental hits like a wet noodle outside of cd's. Many other classes don't.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    And why hasn't it ever been this huge? Because of PvP power. I mean, how is this not blatantly obvious?

    And if pvp and pve provide same level gear then there is NO "forcing pvp" or "forcing pve" because you can get the gear you want however you want it.

    The reasoning behind the changes was to make sure that legendaries and pve trinkets didn't make there way into pvp. I can bet you that they will anyways once the op stuff comes around. The reasoning was also that these pve trinkets and legendaries allowed for a lot more burst than pvp gear did. Instead of addressing this concern, they added pvp power which itself added as much if not more burst than legendaries and pve trinkets did. The system is an absolute failure and the worst implementation of anything I've seen in this game.
    Your logic is so flawed. I'm starting to think you're just fking with me. Raid bosses don't just hand the best loot to you as soon as you enter the raid. You actually have to kill them and pray to the RNG gods. If you could just play some arena and get equal gear in just a few hours you'd obviously feel forced to do so. This was the case in TBC. Since you couldn't just jump into BT and Sunwell and get the best PvE gear right away you had to raid through Karazhan etc. But s3 and s4 gear which you got from arena was actually better than a lot of the gear that dropped inside those raids.

    Same thing goes for PvP. If you can aquire the same gear from PvE you'd have to do so because gear is a big factor in PvP.

    PvP power adds more damage in general, not more burst. CDs add more burst. The fact that I can press one button and spam my "3" key 10 times in a row and do 5 times the damage I would normally do during those 15 seconds is a big issue.This is also the case for most classes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Elemental hits like a wet noodle outside of cd's. Many other classes don't.
    Actually most popular arena specs are suffering from the same issues. They just do way too much damage during CDs.
    Last edited by Bobzor; 2013-02-05 at 09:42 PM.

  13. #93
    full resilence..........

  14. #94
    PvP Power should not be nerfed hard no, but slightly yeah.

  15. #95
    I hate having nearly 60% resilience and getting chaos bolted for 280K repeatedly by locks stacking pvp power in every slot....

  16. #96
    Resilience don't need buff because the efficiency is greatest ever since it was introduced.

    The problem is burst for some class(such as warriors and warriors or warriors) are insane enough that is ignores resil - Just nerf the claasss.

    Nerfing burst don't really affect PVE if they are compensated with increased continuous DPS. For instance arms warriors were at bottom of simcraft since MoP launch, but they were super godmode in PVP because of stupid cooldown burst + survival.
    Last edited by PrairieChicken; 2013-02-07 at 12:24 AM.

  17. #97
    Remove pvp power and bring back wotlk, simple (reduce critical dmg and crit strike chance) and give every1 5% more crit and adjust the numbers (to balance out pve as well).

    I hate having to choose pvp power over my main stat, but i know that blizzard needed to add pvp power because that would exclude pve weapons, in this case you would just bring in heroic sha melee axe, or caster wep, w/e the case may be and trinkets and be considered godly.

    Reminded me back in wotlk where you had to have DBW in order to actually be viable (especially as a warrior) and if you had shadowmorune, you were wanted ALOT, probably over wrathful elite weapon.

    But honestly, i kind of hate this system and i think they should mix in pve stuff, i mean if you equip pve gear or weapon/trinkets, there is always a consequence.

  18. #98
    I'm not sure simple number-tweaking would solve the problem, though it would certainly improve the situation. I'd do a revamp of the CC system first, and then figure out how to fit healing into it (i.e. healing output and interruptibility). For one, there are far too many different categories of CC, which makes Diminishing Returns (a shitty concept in itself) somewhat of a joke. Reduce it down to something along the lines of:

    1) Stuns

    2) Roots

    3) Silence

    4) Disorients (everything else)

    and grant full immunity after the first application wears off, for maybe about 15 seconds. Dispels might need a modification or two as a result.

    Then you can take a look at healers and see if making them more easily interruptable or just lowering their output would be the better choice.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Feranor View Post
    Then you can take a look at healers and see if making them more easily interruptable or just lowering their output would be the better choice.
    How about doing neither? You can already completly ignore some (many) healers and tunnel a target into the ground with 2-3 people playing certain classes. Also there is no battle fatigue on the PTR as of now.

  20. #100
    regem resilience and use your cooldowns properly

    PS if you are affliction bad luck wait for next season harr harr

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