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  1. #1

    Fervor/ToTH now the norm as SV?

    I've been playing a lot of SV lately (until just recently it actually simmed higher than BM for me) and when I was comparing logs yesterday, I noticed that the vast majority of top parsing hunters are using Fervor or ToTH (with most using Fervor now) even in single target fights. Maybe this is just one of those weird things that I somehow missed the boat on, but when did that become the case?

    I know that some hunters have been taking those from the start just for play style reasons, but is there any reason that nearly all of them are taking it now? I know Dire Beast still sims significantly higher for me (~2k), so I'm somewhat interested in the logic behind it.

  2. #2
    I believe Dire Beast is behind fervor/toth on multi-target fights. Other than that it's just personal preference, I for example just hate wasting procs on TotH and in SV you can't line up Dire Beast with anything like you can in BM with Bestial Wrath.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanhi View Post
    I believe Dire Beast is behind fervor/toth on multi-target fights. Other than that it's just personal preference, I for example just hate wasting procs on TotH and in SV you can't line up Dire Beast with anything like you can in BM with Bestial Wrath.
    BW has nothing to do with dire beast.

  4. #4
    It depends on the fight and I don't actually think I've seen any top 20 logs where DB wasn't used (aside from Wind Lord). I find TotH is worse than Fervor due to the fact that you cannot control TotH and can often lead to focus capping if it procs around the same time as Lock n Load. Fervor works nice on some fights and with more people starting to take Barrage due to how it interracts with Stormlash totem having Fervor and Barrage on a 30 seconds CD gives them good synergy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanhi View Post
    I believe Dire Beast is behind fervor/toth on multi-target fights. Other than that it's just personal preference, I for example just hate wasting procs on TotH and in SV you can't line up Dire Beast with anything like you can in BM with Bestial Wrath.
    Dire Beast and Bestial Wrath don't interact at all, I actually tested this tonight out of curiosity/boredom and saw no increased Dire Beast damage with Bestial Wrath. You may be thinking of people mentioning to cast Dire Beast before Bestial Wrath because using a 0 focus cost non direct damage spell during Bestial Wrath is a waste of a GCD.
    Last edited by Glurp; 2013-02-03 at 04:44 PM.

  5. #5
    Fervor is a great bursting tool, and is very useful when you make a mistake and waste a bit too much focus.
    ToTH is a great AoE boost, but it's very unreliable in signle target fights, making you choose between wasting the proc or caping the focus.
    Dire Beast is a steady income of Focus used on every cooldown, and can also be delayed to use in times of focus starvation. Also, it's the only talent that gives direct damage increase.

    Myself, I use Dire Beast, switching to Fervor on fights like Feng or Elegon. Dire Beast does the job pretty much for you, so you can concentrate on movement. However, on fights where you are worrying only about the dps output, Fervor is better if you know when to use it. ToTH just suuuuuuuuucks.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    It depends on the fight and I don't actually think I've seen any top 20 logs where DB wasn't used (aside from Wind Lord). I find TotH is worse than Fervor due to the fact that you cannot control TotH and can often lead to focus capping if it procs around the same time as Lock n Load.
    I just thought I would challenge you on this point. If you are doing your highest damage abilities while focus capped this is never a dps loss. So this really is not a valid point.

    I prefer ToTH because I end up doing a lot less Cobra Shots which hit like wet noodles.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    It depends on the fight and I don't actually think I've seen any top 20 logs where DB wasn't used (aside from Wind Lord).
    Really? I've been going through logs of both 10/25H single target fights (Vizier/Blade Lord/Lei Shi/Spirit Kings) and most top parsing players seem to be using Fervor with some using ToTH and only a few using DB. I wasn't expecting it either, but the "norm" build of GT/DB is difficult to find on the front page of rankings.

  8. #8
    I'm only going to include US and EU(English) as chinese realms have all sorts of extended ilvl scaling and I can't read other languages.

    Survival Hunter Vizier 25 Heroic:

    1. Pottm - Dire Beast
    2. Bright - Thrill
    3. Dabearz - Fervor
    5. Dabeast - Dire Beast
    7. Goratha - Fervor
    10. Wooster - Thrill

    Surivival Hunter Spirit Kings 25 Heroic

    1. Grtwhthunter - Dire Beast
    2. Flin - Fervor
    6. Kawaii - Dire Beast
    7. Nikkikayama - Dire Beast
    11. Tardsmacker - Dire Beast

    I would assume DB is more used on Spirit Kings because of Shields but I guess they're all used fairly evenly. I personally prefer Dire Beast because it requires less button pushes than Thrill or Fervor which means more DPS as I play with 300 latency.

  9. #9
    Right, I mean looking through I guess there are a few more people using DB than I saw when scrolling through the first time.

    But even if 30% are using DB, that's still surprisingly low to me considering DB sims so much higher. I had no idea that Fervor usage was so widespread.
    Last edited by Conando; 2013-02-03 at 07:11 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    Myself, I use Dire Beast, switching to Fervor on fights like Feng or Elegon.
    I always use TotH on Elegon 'cause I feared the 30secs cd on Fervor could be too long for the spark phase. It's good to know I can safely try without costing a wipe to the raid.

  11. #11
    I love when I'm high on focus and a TotH and LnL proc at the same time. It's almost enough let SrS drop.
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  12. #12
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    I find on a lot of fights, the beasts from DB die relatively easily. Garalon comes to mind, so does Vizier and Protectors. We actually had a thread a month or two back about some guy's low DB damage on Elite Protectors, the thing was dying from Kaolan's Expel Corruption thing almost always. On Spirit kings, there's nothing to gib the beasts (and has the added benefit of DPS while shields are still up), which is why you see more top parses with DB.

    Even as BM on Elite Protectors (Elite Heroic I'm SV, duh) I use Fervor instead of DB.

  13. #13
    I prefer Fervor. TotH is just too inconsistent. Procs when you don't need it, no procs when you do, etc.

  14. #14
    I have been a using fervor pretty much all the time during MoP, one of the main reasons being how nicely it is with amoc.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremypwnz View Post
    I love when I'm high on focus and a TotH and LnL proc at the same time. It's almost enough let SrS drop.
    This happens to me often when I get LnL/TotH procs back to back to back. At that point I just recast SrS.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Sagain View Post
    This happens to me often when I get LnL/TotH procs back to back to back. At that point I just recast SrS.
    You should have used one of the TotH procs on a multi-shot...

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    You should have used one of the TotH procs on a multi-shot...
    nope, not if something bad is gonna happen like focus capping, ToTH falling off... otherwise just reapply SrS normally.
    (dont' forget, casting a multishot also costs 1 stack of ToTH which is a free AS, its not just a SrS vs Multishot dmg + 5 focus)

  18. #18
    You can compare Fervor and ToTH as primary focus tools but DB has extra pet damage added to it. Which is what makes it sim higher. If it is a pure single target fight where it's unlikely that your pet will die, DB is clearly the winner. But that is not too often the case, which is why you see ppl in top parses use other options as well. Any fights with target switching where they are not close by, will drop DB value as well. But that all depends on the player. I was the one who had the issue of DB dying on elite protectors but I simply discussed it with the tank so he positions the bosses properly and for the last part i simply waited till he casted expel corruption and was stationary and then cast DB. Even with the delays, DB still is much ahead of the other two for BM. And slightly ahead for SV.

    TL;DR If you can squeeze out all the hits of your DB throughout the fight, it is the best choice by far. If not, go with either fervor or ToTH (for single target, TotH obv for aoe) they both are extremely close and the difference would be negligible. But to the OP, that is the reason people opt out of SB is because it requires management.

  19. #19
    The worst thing about TOTH is forgetting to cast cobra shot to refresh serpent sting and then it falling off.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    nope, not if something bad is gonna happen like focus capping, ToTH falling off... otherwise just reapply SrS normally.
    (dont' forget, casting a multishot also costs 1 stack of ToTH which is a free AS, its not just a SrS vs Multishot dmg + 5 focus)
    umm in no way shape or form would applying srs manually be > a 20 focus multi shot. I still don't understand what you meant to say in your post fully. You shouldn't use multi shot if you're gonna focus cap ? huh ? And this is only considering srs is about to fall off. So a multi shot = multi shot dmg, imp srs dmg, full duration srs refreshed, 20 focus only. And yes, you lose one free AS. But same happens with reapplying manually. It's still a GCD. Just much less dmg.

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