Which one of these hurt the community more?

[xanzul]

I don't think it's argued that these didn't harm the community, so I want to know, which do you think hurt the community more?

I think it's faction/server transfers. Even with LFD, there's still a lot of things in-game in which you have to interact with people on your own server (raiding, guilds, challenge modes, rated battlegrounds, occasional dailies, world bosses, etc), and you still do have to mind your server reputation and keep it good. However with faction/server transfers, it doesn't matter if you have the worst of the worst reputation on your server; troll it up as much as you want, you can simply pay to do it all over again.

edit: explanation added

The community hurt itself. I'm sick and tired of these cop out threads where anything and everything under the sun is blamed for the actions of others. Want a better community? Start holding the people in the community responsible for their actions rather than a few lines of code.

[Herecius]

Nothing in-game made the community toxic. Game communities are always full of very toxic people. There's plenty of decent people too, but they tend to be quieter and stay away from the toxic ones. It's not exclusive to WoW, and it's certainly not Blizzard's fault.

[Blapis]

Is that Blizzard's fault for providing the option, or your friends' fault for not telling you they were name changing? Don't you think they told the people they wanted to keep in touch with? Would you rather they not have the option to change and not accomplish whatever they were trying to accomplish by changing? If so then that's an incredibly self-centered idea of what constitutes "hurting the community".

But I came back after few months and all I saw was "this character no longer exist" and a few random names on my friend list, which I didn't even know who are they anymore. They migrated and name changed. It would be easier to find them with their original name.

[xanzul]

Translation: I wish people could not do something that they want to do (in this case, transfer servers). And it's THIS attitude that's ruined the "community", this attitude that makes the extremely loud and self-centered demographic dominate any discussion about WoW.

I said it before and I will say it again most times the very people complaining about this community are the worst of the worst and their shitty attitudes are precisely why this community is so bad now. It is mind boggling how in one breath they can bitch about the community and then insult anyone who dares enjoy LFD and other quality of life features of the game that the community itself asked for.

[Yriel]

In my experience there was never a good server community to begin with and that was because of one of the design principles of wow.. soloability. I played Dark age of Camelot before WoW and there you couldn't do anything solo. You needed a group to level, to grind, to go into dungeons, to pvp, even to craft, every crafter needed stuff that other crafters had to create. That forcefully created a server community because you had to play in groups all the time. In WoW everything except dungeons and the endgame were solo activities and so you ever only needed the people in your guild. There was never a need to have a network of friends.
So i think not much changed over the years.

[xanzul]

LFD hurt the community the most by the way it was implemented. I have no problem at all there being a LFD system really, but making it cross-realm hurt so deep I might never be able to sit down again.
People don't care about people that's not from their own realm, they aren't as afraid of doing some bad against that player then.
They should have done LFD within your own server.

You complain about players not caring about others and then whine about a system that was implemented to help players. Simply astounding. It really and truly is.

---------- Post added 2013-02-03 at 06:16 PM ----------

lfd as you are rewarded for being an ass

And I will say it again, the real asses are those constantly demanding the removal of quality of life changes to the game.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[klorx]

An online game is like a project x party. There are people who come to have fun and there are people who want to mess with other people. The destroyer of communities is the community itself

[xanzul]

Guild Reputation and Guild Levelling hurt the community far more than LFD, as it constricted normal guild movement.

Normal guild movement meaning guild hopping? Not surprised to see this kind of behavior defended in a thread where people are bitching about how "terrible" the community is. Once again those who think the community is bad are typically the very people making it bad.

---------- Post added 2013-02-03 at 06:22 PM ----------

Oh bullocks! You can't remove the barriers or "unwritten laws" if you will, and expect anything but utter anarchy, same would happen irl if the barriers or laws that keep everyone in check was removed.., stop sucking blizzards tit on that argument n' think for yourself, that's what your brain is for!

Oh give it a fucking rest already. It is people like you who blame Blizzard and a few lines of code for the behavior of others that enable this behavior to continue. Want a better community? Stop letting these people get off scot free by copping out and blaming Blizzard. You are just as bad as the jerks in LFD by doing that.

---------- Post added 2013-02-03 at 06:24 PM ----------

Disobedience. Disobedience hurts the community. You must not criticize Big Blizzard!

Moronic comments like yours aren't exactly helping. Again just goes to show the people woh complain about the community are the worst of the worst.

---------- Post added 2013-02-03 at 06:25 PM ----------

LF2.0 did. Specifically because it auto-ported players to the instance of choice.

Because running to instances manually makes us all paragons of virtue. Jesus fucking christ.

[roahn the warlock]

there used to be kinda a comunnity, not so much anymore though, now it's just like LoL bunch of asshats bad at the game who jump on those who are worse.... like raiders who run heroics then be mean to new players... we should call them smurfs too

[Firebert]

Normal guild movement meaning guild hopping?

Yes. The amount of players that were stuck in dead guilds fearing losing their guild rep was astounding, until they made it irrelevant by getting guild rep from everything. Merging the 10- and 25-man lockouts also helped divide the community by locking players out of raiding with, all the raiders not PuGging to save their lockout.

LFR was meant to re-join this divided community, but it was nowhere near difficult enough to make the achievement worth anything to raiding guilds. Hence we now have the division of "raiders" who run Normal/Heroic raids, and "casuals/bads", who run LFR and Heroics, with PvPers interspersed between this divide.

A fix? Queuable Normals. I've detailed it in previous posts.

[Fummockelchen]

None of the above. Everybody who thinks LFD/LFR/Flyin hurt the community is totally blind to the fact that its BAD people that hurt the community and nothing else....

This Person is the best example of a bad person:

Hence we now have the division of "raiders" who run Normal/Heroic raids, and "casuals/bads", who run LFR and Heroics, with PvPers interspersed between this divide.

He euquals casuals with bad - i wish such people and the lfr/lfd/thing x-killed wow-community would quit wow forever and the problem would be solved...

[lolalola]

Its the way the game is set up together with the age and lack of versatility to change. Its rotten to its core. From the A:H ratio till the automation tools to the fruit machine slots.

X-server WvWvW creates much more bonding between people on same server as well as rivalry between servers, while still allowing the horde vs alliance theme.

[Firebert]

He euquals casuals with bad - i wish such people and the lfr/lfd/thing x-killed wow-community would quit wow forever and the problem would be solved...

I don not equate casuals with bads. They just happen to fall within the same divide.

Also, I never really cared for the comminuty, as it's just as good as the Call of Duty and the League of Legends community. What I do care for is the perfectly good system of:
*going from a feeder guild to a ten-man guild PuGging twenty-five mans to a twenty-five man guild PuGging ten-mans,

turning into:
*either being in a raiding guild (ten or twenty-five) or a feeder guild running LFR and Heroics, as there's no way to move up.

This can be seen as either Blizzard's fault for merging the lockouts, or the raiding guild's fault for having ridiculously high entry requirements. Blizzard are only going to move forward, so I don't see them redividing the lockouts. Blizzard tried fixing the current divide with LFR, but LFR was far too easy and raiding guilds take no notice of LFR achievements. I'm waiting to see if they can try to undo the schism they created.

[Magpai]

are u kidding me.. this is world of warcraft, players will always use the most efficient way to anything, so if there is a more efficient way EVEN IF ITS NOT FUN OR VITAL TO THE COMMUNITY every player feels / IS forced to use this way period. arguments like yours are worthless. haha look at the main page ghostcrawler just said what I told you about efficiency in a blue post

from gc: 'Not to sound ignorant, but why don't you like people migrating from 25s to 10s? If ppl like 25 its its own reward
We don't buy that 10s are just more fun. Throughout WoW, one constant is that players gravitate towards efficiency. '

In other words, you don't fly there because you choose to use the more efficient option. SO either you actually prefer it or you're just too stupid to follow your own preferences.

---------- Post added 2013-02-04 at 12:39 AM ----------

But I came back after few months and all I saw was "this character no longer exist" and a few random names on my friend list, which I didn't even know who are they anymore. They migrated and name changed. It would be easier to find them with their original name.

So you really are self-centered enough that you would rather them not have that option than for you to lose touch or have to ask someone what name you used to know them by? Some friend you are.

[ablib]

Faction/server transfers should also include name changes.

Before these three existed, there was a community. The price for getting a bad rep back then was severe, and your only choice was to either start playing by yourself or start a leveling a new toon (which was insane).

Everyone used to know each other. Since faction/server transfers and name changes, the community feeling faded away. Guilds and friendships broke up. Friend lists got smaller. Before you know it, you find yourself playing alone on a once thriving server. Made a new friend? Oh no, they just transferred, and now you're alone again.

Since these three features were added, anyone can finally say or do what they want because now they don't have to start a new character or play alone, they just change their name, or server, or faction.

It is this, and this alone, is the BIGGEST reason thing to hurt the community.

People who think it's LFD are simpletons.

[gronch]

something els: threads like these

[phenom568]

The community has done a fantastic job destroying itself. Really all blizzard did was remove some of the ways the community could monitor itself. The community hasn't even tried to to stop the asshat behavior which has made asshat behaviors acceptable. Its a problem with the community and only the community can stop it. Those expecting big brother, blizzard, to do something about it are going to be disappointed.

Moral of the story, when bad behavor is allowed and personal responsibility and accountabilty is thrown out the window the community will implode.

[markdall]

Cross realm zones.

[Airwaves]

THE PLAYERS

LFD has nothing to do with being an asshole. Before it they just had to keep there shit to themselves.

[Taftvalue]

In other words, you don't fly there because you choose to use the more efficient option. SO either you actually prefer it or you're just too stupid to follow your own preferences.

---------- Post added 2013-02-04 at 12:39 AM ----------

wow ure actually not intelligent enough to comprehend what I tried to explain to you.
I'll try again, there is no choice when players want to be efficient, in case of the dungeon finder, if I flew I'd be late, the other players would have to wait and they'd all be mad at me for my inefficient choice.