RBG - Eye of the Storm - Help!

[Deleted]

Hi, myself and a few Guildies have started an RBG team. We have been going for about 3-4 weeks now and we do pretty decently. Most everyone in our team is around 1750 rating. We do well.

However, we always ALWAYS have issue when Eye of the Storm comes up. It may very well be our start, or our comp, or combination of both. But we have lost all our games on this BG.

At the beginning we tried a three base start, but got completely steamrolled each time we attempted it. So I called for us to play a long game and go for two base ans flag caps. We fare better this this start, but ultimately always end up losing control of the middle.

Our comp does vary slightly and we unfortunately don't have a mage we can depend on to be there all the time, but this is generally what we run with;

Prot Warrior - to hold BElf Tower

Resto Shaman
Disc Priest
Resto Druid (sometimes a Holy Palladian)

Rogue
Hunter
2x Warlock (most times we have 2 warlocks)
Arms Warrior

The last dps space is for whoever is available, last night it was a second rogue. We sometimes have a DK or mage take this space

But whoever we run, we just can't win this BG!
Any tactics/help would be greatly appreciated.

[Deleted]

I think you should go for the flag and don't cap it, just defend the bases until the end then cap for the win

[Zstr]

why ppl think it's all about flag, flag whores, that flag is nothing in rbg it's only 50points, 3bases give u much more, this base bg like Arathi, not fucking warsong
rush 3rd base, send heal and tank to waste enemy time on flag, after u get 3rd base aoe flags,try sneak cap 4rd, pure win

[Shagina]

That comp is going to suffer in the middle due to no boomkin, no mage and no DK. As much as it sucks, comps have a big impact in RBGs. My suggestion would be to send hunter to defend one base(BM preferably, due to survivability), Pwarrior to the other and have your rogue(s) constantly pressure one of their bases while playing defensively in the middle (though remember to keep them from getting the flag) until they need to send reinforcements wherever your rogue is. This requires a good rogue though, if he is not good enough to force them to send backups you'll lose. Since you lack so much in the aoe department both locks should go destro. If they can build the synergy to get chaos bolts off at the same time on the same target (pref with cooldowns up) it can easily global a player.

Honestly, what you need the most is to practise as much as possible. You have a very weak comp and as such you will have to outplay the other team in order to win, every time. That goes for all maps, not just EotS.

If you get the flag, just hold it until there's like 50 points left of the BG. Have your rogue keep pressure on their bases, stay mobile between your own two and switch the flag to the prot warrior. Remember that he has to stay away from the cap point so that he doesn't get gripped to it so they can force the cap.

[Deleted]

The reason why you properly have trouble in EotS, is like Shagina said, mostly the lack of AoE... Since most of the fights (if you go for flag) will be a group of people stacking up so much on that tiny platform. If you face a team with a DK, Moonkin and mage, you are going to have a bad time against the; Mass grip > Ring > Vortex > solar beam... If this is the case your priest have to play well to not get caught in the AoE grip, so that he can Mass Dispell the ring. (Shadow priest have to do the same, if you get one). You should make sure your rogue plays well, and manage to pressure towers, maybe send a hunter with him in Camo (with glyph) to one of their bases, if those guys (rogue & hunter) synergizes well, they should get an easy cap... Try to make sure the middle-people fighting, knows when they are going for ninja, because they have to slow and make sure no one peels off to easy.

[Deleted]

Thank you all very much for your insight
Not having a mage in our team is a bone of contention for me at the moment, can't seem to find someone dependable enough to come regularly.

Thanks for the pointers. Seems its the 3 base strat I should go with instead. Our rogue is competant, though not able to take down a tank I don't think.


Again, thanks for the advice, and I guess we will just have to practise till we got it

[Deleted]

Don't put your rogue in the midset of killing the tank. He has to know he only have to CC him... Let me put it like this, this is how I do it against etc, Warrior defender.
- Get close in stealth
- Sap him and start capping
- He should Zerger rage
- Vanish before he bleed you
- Wait for DR
- Sap again and start capping
- He trinkets
- Blind him quick
- Cap to victory
Make sure after he gets the cap, he must get backup QUICK! Because he will die, and he will die fast!

[Deleted]

Don't put your rogue in the midset of killing the tank. He has to know he only have to CC him... Let me put it like this, this is how I do it against etc, Warrior defender.
- Get close in stealth
- Sap him and start capping
- He should Zerger rage
- Vanish before he bleed you
- Wait for DR
- Sap again and start capping
- He trinkets
- Blind him quick
- Cap to victory
Make sure after he gets the cap, he must get backup QUICK! Because he will die, and he will die fast!

Thank you!
I am certain my rogue isn't using this sort of strat as he tried to take on a prot warrior guarding Lighthouse in Gilneas and died pretty quickly.


seriously, thanks for your help

[Mican17]

Don't put your rogue in the midset of killing the tank. He has to know he only have to CC him... Let me put it like this, this is how I do it against etc, Warrior defender.
- Get close in stealth
- Sap him and start capping
- He should Zerger rage
- Vanish before he bleed you
- Wait for DR
- Sap again and start capping
- He trinkets
- Blind him quick
- Cap to victory
Make sure after he gets the cap, he must get backup QUICK! Because he will die, and he will die fast!

I don't think this would work if the warrior stood at max range possible for heroic leap.

[furcouch514]

Is there still a bug for horde 3 caps? If you're horde with 2 bases its 3 points per sec (?) and alliance gets 5points per sec, so depending on what team you are, you either run flag or cap bases.

[apepi]

Is there still a bug for horde 3 caps? If you're horde with 2 bases its 3 points per sec (?) and alliance gets 5points per sec, so depending on what team you are, you either run flag or cap bases.

I believe so.

First understand your comp is not the best so you need to know you strengths and weakness. Your rogue and hunter are very good at trying to get ninja caps on bases(mages are also good) so use that to your advantage. You most likely will not win a team fight but as long as you keep the other team busy your rogue or hunter might be able to get a ninja cap.

[Kelrax]

Anyone who says 3-bases is the way to go hasn't played RBGs. Last season I took my team well above 2k and it hasn't changed much this season. Generally speaking (and I preface this by saying this is against a team that is decent) once someone captures a flag it is impossible to take it from them. They always know you are going to hit a base before you hit it, and even if you managed to wipe them the rez timers are so quick they will always have someone up to AE that flag until better help arrives. Even if you wipe them in 30 seconds just after a rez wave, you still have body rezzes and stuff to worry about - and lets be honest, decent players can't be killed that fast with their gear. That only leaves sneak attacks, and they have defenders that can defend against a stealth-cap AND on my team we always report MIA stealth classes and send reinforcements prematurely.

Mejenna outlines how to stealth cap, but the reality is any team can get some help there long before you "cap to victory" and they overlooked standing at max range and heroic leap. Trying that against a Mage or Warlock or Hunter (the other base's defender) is even harder, as I always have my water elemental at the flag and I'm at max range from it.

So where does that leave you? The flag in the middle. 1 defender at each base with 8 people in the middle. Have 1 dps always hanging back a little bit and prepared to quickly run off to help any bases in trouble.

Think of it this way, if this was Gilneas would you give them the free cap at Waterworks to try to take Mine/Lighthouse from them? Of course not - because 99% of the time you would lose. You can't give them the free cap of the flag in the middle hoping to take a 3rd base. If things stalemate at the flag you can try to send a few people to stealth-cap or hit a base with the sole intent of distracting them enough that you can push at the flag in the middle.

[Tyrean]

Well there are a few problems here. To start let me explain the general strategy of EotS.

1.) Send your two defend people to your two bases to start. That would be your prot class and one pet class to defend against sap cap.
2.) Everyone else slow falls to mid to contest the flag.
3.) Congratulations! You have won the mid fight and have the flag. Now you have your prot hold the flag without capping at one base while your "mid" team pressures a third base.
4.) Got Three bases? Congratulations! You've won. Can't get three bases? Congratulations! You've won.


Now, with that said, EotS is the most reactive RBG there is because there are multiple paths to victory and many things can change those paths through out the game. Things that will change the basic strategy include:

1.) Ninja Cap of a base.
2.) Mid Win and you have the ability to cap the flag with two and regrab flag again for points.
3.) You hold the flag but get ninja capped yourself.
4.) They hold the flag and you cannot reliably take a third base (which is when a DK comes in handy as they can force a cap to reset).


Really you need your rogues to be trying to ninja cap the whole fight. Winning mid is important because if you just go straight for three bases then they will be able to take the flag and fall back to defend that node and be 9vs8 on defense which is far easier. They could even go 8v8 on the defense node and send one person to pressure one of your bases. Basically losing mid at the beginning makes the whole game worse.

Of course ninja caps are a very god way to force the game into your control. You don't have to take and hold a base for it to be effective. Most teams will overcommit to a base that was ninjaed sending 3-4 when they only need one. That leave you open to get something else.

Your comp is kinda odd with no mage, but if you have a DK here is a very good strategy to use.

1.) At the start of the game have your DK go straight to an opposing base while your prot and pet class defend two nodes and your mid team holds mid. The DK will be able to get to the opposing base before the defense class for that base are able to cap and the DK can hold against the cap. This puts you at 2 bases v 1, and they will most likely send a healer or DPS from mid to help capture the contested base and you can win mid. Requires a good DK who knows how to 1v1 and not suck though.

General tips, your resto druid needs to push through the mid fight into the back ranks as they are your only reliable knockback. I would suggest telling them to push up and try to knock a healer off and then displace back.

[Machomaije]

Don't put your rogue in the midset of killing the tank. He has to know he only have to CC him... Let me put it like this, this is how I do it against etc, Warrior defender.
- Get close in stealth
- Sap him and start capping
- He should Zerger rage
- Vanish before he bleed you
- Wait for DR
- Sap again and start capping
- He trinkets
- Blind him quick
- Cap to victory
Make sure after he gets the cap, he must get backup QUICK! Because he will die, and he will die fast!

yeee, no.... No decent players stays in range for the rogue to sap and cap.

[apepi]

1.) At the start of the game have your DK go straight to an opposing base while your prot and pet class defend two nodes and your mid team holds mid. The DK will be able to get to the opposing base before the defense class for that base are able to cap and the DK can hold against the cap. This puts you at 2 bases v 1, and they will most likely send a healer or DPS from mid to help capture the contested base and you can win mid. Requires a good DK who knows how to 1v1 and not suck though.

This is what my team does almost every time. I ride down with the dk on his mount and we we get to belf cap it(since the dk is faster you get a cap before any else does) then he goes off to stop the person from capping. And if the dk stopped the cap I go over dr and make sure that he gets help and a healer peels off mid to ensure it is not capped. I have never had BE capped under this strat. As long as your mid team has eyes on their stealth you should be fine. Won a game of hotteds/swiftys alts on this strat:}.

[discoepfeand]

yeee, no.... No decent players stays in range for the rogue to sap and cap.

Trying to figure out how to deal with this next season, esp against warriors. Would this work?

Sap -> sprint to flag
Warrior zerk rage, leap -> vanish
wait 15 sec or so
Sap -> sprint to flag
Warrior trinket, before intercept -> prep/vanish
wait 15 sec or so
Sap -> sprint to flag
Warrior zerk rage, leap -> disarm, wait for zerk to fall off, blind cap, trinket if he fears - he has no trinket/zerk left at this point, so it's ok if you're stuck in a bleed.

[Shagina]

A point people seem to miss, half the point of pressuring a base is to force the other team to reinforce it. Against lesser teams it can mess with their communication as well, but even a good team has to decide whether it wants to lose someone from the middle or risk losing base. In most cases that means sending reinforcements since the consequences of losing a base are huge, which gives you a better chance in the middle (especially since a rogue is borderline useless there).

[Tyrean]

Trying to figure out how to deal with this next season, esp against warriors. Would this work?

Sap -> sprint to flag
Warrior zerk rage, leap -> vanish
wait 15 sec or so
Sap -> sprint to flag
Warrior trinket, before intercept -> prep/vanish
wait 15 sec or so
Sap -> sprint to flag
Warrior zerk rage, leap -> disarm, wait for zerk to fall off, blind cap, trinket if he fears - he has no trinket/zerk left at this point, so it's ok if you're stuck in a bleed.

Nope. You are thinking about it wrong. You won't be able to sap cap a warrior unless he is standing right next to it for some reason and you have already shived off zerk rage. Even if you do get off a full sap, the time it takes you to sprint to the flag is more than enough time for him to charge you. He will be spamming that button on you so it will go off the milisecond sap wears off and charge has no "travel" time.

I played rogue last season and all of my ninja caps came from one of three things:
1.) Players not paying attention. That little map foldout animation is the greatest thing ever put into the game. Sometimes I would position myself near the flag inconspicuously (easiest is mage tower) and wait for that player to open their map. Most of the time you get the cap off before they are done looking at the map and realize you are capping.
2.) Sap cap on players standing too close to the flag. Has to be the right mix, non-warrior, non-pet class. Either get the sap cap full, or they trinket the sap and then eat a blind cap.
3.) Force trinket out of a player and blind cap them. This was the main goal against warriors. It is amazing how easy it used to be for a rogue to force major cooldowns from a prot warrior last season 1v1. Now though, I am not sure you could eat through second wind enough to scare them into using their trinket. Be sure though if you get a warrior to trinket to not just blind him immediately. To my knowledge zerk rage also breaks blind, so be sure you have eaten that CD with a vanish/sap before the blind.

[Korgoth]

Prot Warrior - to hold BElf Tower

No, send him to FR, put a ranged on Blood Elf. Melee is way to easy to knock off BE and cap while they run back up. Explosive trap camo'd hunter or moonkin steals that shit no problem.

[Deleted]

Wait, do I understand that right, you guys are playing without an frost death knight, moonkin and frostmage? Might aswell throw in the towel from the very beginning. It is understandable that you lose middle when you lack so much utility (mass grip, grip, vortex + solar beam which is plain op and can kill whole teams and ring of frost).

That being said, if you manage to get the flag even once the battleground is pretty much won. You simply don't cap it till right before the end. Just hand it to your prot warrior and sit the whole thing out. As defender you're having the advantage and the other team has to react. If they attack one of your bases they either have to give up the middle or they'll be outnumbered with a longer way for their respawn to reach the fight or wont have anyone to spare to keep holding middle.

Having three bases is actually fairly hard on the long run, as the way you got to run becomes far longer and they have more points they can attack and you're going to be more spread out. Having three bases often means your team is dominating, something you tell is isn't the case at all. (Especially not without a moonkin, who the hell plays without a moonkin?!).