Thread: 5.2 UA Locks

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Here's some locks who are or have been rank 1 this season:

    Limity
    Slipnslide
    Drlocktopus
    Crazy Cyrillic Letters
    Dotalol
    Blukstack
    Xennnum


    Someone a week ago claimed there were no rank 1 locks this season and even with blood fear they were underpowered, so we found some - at the time none of them had blood fear, which shocked even me - but I'm seeing 3/6 of them have it at the moment - so they're obviously swapping talents around, possibly depending on on what they're facing.
    every single one of those locks has blood fear spec'd into at least 1 of their pvp specs so wtf are you talking about man "3/6 now..0 before.." lol? all you have to do is look through the ladders objectively to see that this is dumbest argument around. no one 'took blood fear because it was a crutch', that's asinine. people took it because it was good and the UW health cost is ridiculous the way burst was / is atm. you can't use UW when trained because it's death. [that's the only other decent option in the tier and it still would have been a toss up at 10%]


    ...5/7 run demo specs.

    conclusion; most of them chewed up rating when demo was broken. look at the comps. and all of them used blood fear..hardly sound evidence for a counter argument.

    blood fear was an instant 8 second cc /10 sec cd.. that's unheard of and too good not take. and very needed the way locks were in 5.1.

    that said; cast fear feels ok again PTR but this is largely because of the KJC buff in 5.1 and partly to do with the defensive buffs..has nothing to do with the talent not being needed when it was.


    side note; its pretty amazing to hear a spriest talk about what's necessary for caster defensives..in 5.1... :| <3
    Last edited by Lulbalance; 2013-02-05 at 10:51 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    Well I would say warlocks right now are in a fine spot, with the exclusion of UA. UA is getting a pretty huge buff, I wouldn't call it weak. The fact that cleanses now cleanse all debuffs means any sort of cleanse will always hit UA, with UA hitting like a truck and silencing. That's perfect for target-swapping cleaves.
    Hitting like a truck on PTR? Where did you get that.

  3. #23
    Why is everyone so fucking biased? It's hard to get reliable information from you guys. Can't we look at this from a logical angle? In 5.2, mages and shadowpriests are nerfed, while DKs, rogues, and wwmonks are buffed. Locks? I don't know, and this thread hasn't given me much to work with.

  4. #24
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lap View Post
    Stopped reading after that, and cheers btw, for speaking for 'every other multi-glad'.
    Yeah, it's not like every other warlock on arena junkies is saying the same as me >.>
    http://www.arenajunkies.com/forum/22-warlock/

    It's not like other casters have better tools to survive melee /sarcasm. All we can do is running away, with a portal on cooldown, we are forced to pop a cooldown to survive, which means we won't have them available when people start using cooldowns against us.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Yeah, it's not like every other warlock on arena junkies is saying the same as me >.>
    http://www.arenajunkies.com/forum/22-warlock/

    It's not like other casters have better tools to survive melee /sarcasm. All we can do is running away, with a portal on cooldown, we are forced to pop a cooldown to survive, which means we won't have them available when people start using cooldowns against us.
    People complain about their class, been happening since day 1.
    I'd say mages/ele shamans are a lot worse off. I play a warlock, and the deff cds are stronger than they've ever been.

  6. #26
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    There is a reason for that 25% DR and alot more healing we had before, its not like we gained something this expansion. it did only offset it, and not in a good way.

  7. #27
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lap View Post
    People complain about their class, been happening since day 1.
    I'd say mages/ele shamans are a lot worse off. I play a warlock, and the deff cds are stronger than they've ever been.
    Yes, the cooldowns are stronger, but the overall survivability has gone down by a lot.
    The 25% passive damage reduction and 30% increased healing taken we had in cataclysm made us very resistant against melee since we could just tank them. Right now we have to run from melee since we no longer have that passive durability and are solely dependent on cooldowns. And unlike mages, priests, etc, we lack the tools to stop melee from attacking us, and smaller defensive abilities on shorter cooldowns.

    Sure people complain about their classes, but there are people that actually know what's going on, and people that cry because they are undergeared/underskilled/etc...

    Why is everyone so fucking biased? It's hard to get reliable information from you guys. Can't we look at this from a logical angle? In 5.2, mages and shadowpriests are nerfed, while DKs, rogues, and wwmonks are buffed. Locks? I don't know, and this thread hasn't given me much to work with.
    How exactly are mages being nerfed for 5.2? I'm not seeing it....
    Shadowpriests on the other hand needed some nerfs. Because hybrid healing is getting a nice buff, and shadow really didn't deserve that buff, the nerfs may look bigger then they really are.
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-02-05 at 04:21 PM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Yes, the cooldowns are stronger, but the overall survivability has gone down by a lot.
    The 25% passive damage reduction and 30% increased healing taken we had in cataclysm made us very resistant against melee since we could just tank them. Right now we have to run from melee since we no longer have that passive durability and are solely dependent on cooldowns. And unlike mages, priests, etc, we lack the tools to stop melee from attacking us, and smaller defensive abilities on shorter cooldowns.

    Sure people complain about their classes, but there are people that actually know what's going on, and people that cry because they are undergeared/underskilled/etc...



    How exactly are mages being nerfed for 5.2? I'm not seeing it....
    Shadowpriests on the other hand needed some nerfs. Because hybrid healing is getting a nice buff, and shadow really didn't deserve that buff, the nerfs may look bigger then they really are.

    i think shadow priests took a 20% reduct on off heals with the PTR notes that were just released.

    mages.. got a huge buff and a talent that should be warlock's :[

    warlocks lost the horror for blood fear and now have an even more useless talent in 4th tier, woo. i still think it was necessary for 5.2 but i dont want it back..would just be nice to have something decent in that row.. maybe they'll lower UW to 10%

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  9. #29
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    i think shadow priests took a 20% reduct on off heals with the PTR notes that were just released.
    Well, that shouldn't change to much since offheal will benefit from PvP power now. Still a nerf, but only a small one.
    I don't see the change where warlocks lost blood horror though... And yes, UW on a 10% cost would be nice....

    The mage talent also seems something I'd really love to have, we could use a spell like that more then they do >.>

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Here's some locks who are or have been rank 1 this season:

    Limity
    Slipnslide
    Drlocktopus
    Crazy Cyrillic Letters
    Dotalol
    Blukstack
    Xennnum


    Someone a week ago claimed there were no rank 1 locks this season and even with blood fear they were underpowered, so we found some - at the time none of them had blood fear, which shocked even me - but I'm seeing 3/6 of them have it at the moment - so they're obviously swapping talents around, possibly depending on on what they're facing.
    All 7 are using Blood Fear. 6 have it in both specs.

    Less than half of these are in a rank 1 team.

    Limity hasn't played 3v3 since the demo nerf.
    Ðrløcktöpús has been replaced with a spriest.
    The Russian guy is the only legit player.

    To summarise;
    4 aren't rank 1.
    2 have been replaced with other classes.
    All 7 use blood fear.

    Not really sure how you're refuting the guy's point that "there are no rank 1 locks and locks are propped up by blood fear". He looks to be pretty spot on judging from your sources.

  11. #31
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Flameglow, a new talent is available at level 30 and replaces Blazing Speed. The passive ability encases the Mage in fiery energy, absorbing damage from each attack made against the Mage equal to 20% of their spellpower, up to a maximum of 30% of the attack.
    Seeing how mages will have 25k+ spellpower in 5.2, this is going to hurt affliction really badly since all our damage comes from low hitting dots, allowing the talent to work on its full potential.

    I really hope that talent isn't going live...
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-02-05 at 10:37 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    How exactly are mages being nerfed for 5.2? I'm not seeing it....
    mages.. got a huge buff and a talent that should be warlock's :[
    These comments confirm what I said about you guys being biased as fuck (not to mention largely clueless about other classes). PoM+Ring has been significantly nerfed -- to the point where you might see mages just drop PoM. Also, in order to take flameglow, you'll have to give up Ice Barrier.

  13. #33
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mican17 View Post
    These comments confirm what I said about you guys being biased as fuck (not to mention largely clueless about other classes). PoM+Ring has been significantly nerfed -- to the point where you might see mages just drop PoM. Also, in order to take flameglow, you'll have to give up Ice Barrier.
    So mages get 1 nerf to something that was rather overpowered and a bunch of buffs... Yeah, we are totally biased.
    Also, you realize you can switch talents before the game starts right?

    And I don't think you are seeing how strong flameglow actually is. Assume the mage has 25k spellpower, it means that every single hit done to the mage that's less then 16.66k will be reduced by 30%, and every hit above that is reduced by 5k. Against dot classes, that's very very strong.

  14. #34
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    So mages get 1 nerf to something that was rather overpowered and a bunch of buffs... Yeah, we are totally biased.
    Also, you realize you can switch talents before the game starts right?

    And I don't think you are seeing how strong flameglow actually is. Assume the mage has 25k spellpower, it means that every single hit done to the mage that's less then 16.66k will be reduced by 30%, and every hit above that is reduced by 5k. Against dot classes, that's very very strong.
    Especcially against comps like RLS / RPS / Shadowplay - Flameglow will pretty much be 30% passive damage reduction to the mage (more than Defensive Stance's 25% pre-nerf).
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    So mages get 1 nerf to something that was rather overpowered and a bunch of buffs... Yeah, we are totally biased.
    Also, you realize you can switch talents before the game starts right?

    And I don't think you are seeing how strong flameglow actually is. Assume the mage has 25k spellpower, it means that every single hit done to the mage that's less then 16.66k will be reduced by 30%, and every hit above that is reduced by 5k. Against dot classes, that's very very strong.
    No...that's not how Flameglow works. Here's an explanation by Affx, hopefully you'll understand it better after this:

    It reduces damage by (spell power * 0.2) damage per hit, but that number cannot exceed 30% of the hit.

    So for a Mage with 20k spell power, it reduces damage taken by 4000.

    Power Shot crits you for 150k normally
    Power Shot actually crits you for 146k

    Frostbolt crits you for 80k normally
    Frostbolt actually crits you for 76k

    Rogue white damage crits you for 8k
    It would crit you for 4k, but since that's less than 70% of the normal attack, it actually crits you for 8k * 0.7 = 5600.
    As you can see, no mage is going to take this for PVE and it's pretty meh for PVP too unless you're facing a lot of rogue comps in arena or something.

  16. #36
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corebit View Post
    No...that's not how Flameglow works. Here's an explanation by Affx, hopefully you'll understand it better after this:
    As you can see, no mage is going to take this for PVE and it's pretty meh for PVP too unless you're facing a lot of rogue comps in arena or something.
    It's exactly the same the way I explained it, just different wording -.-'
    30% of 16.6k is 5k, which is 20% of 25k in case you didn't realize that. And 25k will be pretty standard for mages in 5.2.

    Since the maximum it can reduce is 30%, on everything below that 16.6k, will get it's damage reduced by 30%. Everything above will be reduced by a flat 5k... Still asuming the mage has 25k spellpower of course.

    You might have checked what I actually said instead of just going by and saying I was wrong. When it comes to PvP, I know what I'm saying, just saying.

    And it's really strong against dot classes and other classes that rely on smaller but quick damage.
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-02-06 at 05:10 PM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    All 7 are using Blood Fear. 6 have it in both specs.

    Less than half of these are in a rank 1 team.

    Limity hasn't played 3v3 since the demo nerf.
    Ðrløcktöpús has been replaced with a spriest.
    The Russian guy is the only legit player.

    To summarise;
    4 aren't rank 1.
    2 have been replaced with other classes.
    All 7 use blood fear.

    Not really sure how you're refuting the guy's point that "there are no rank 1 locks and locks are propped up by blood fear". He looks to be pretty spot on judging from your sources.
    Whatever the case, Blood Fear had to go, it's so stupid.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 06:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Hitting like a truck on PTR? Where did you get that.
    They deal insane damage if left alone right now and if I'm not mistaken their UA glyph is getting buffed? Not saying that they're OP coz cleaves eat them alive.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    All 7 are using Blood Fear. 6 have it in both specs.

    Less than half of these are in a rank 1 team.

    Limity hasn't played 3v3 since the demo nerf.
    Ðrløcktöpús has been replaced with a spriest.
    The Russian guy is the only legit player.

    To summarise;
    4 aren't rank 1.
    2 have been replaced with other classes.
    All 7 use blood fear.

    Not really sure how you're refuting the guy's point that "there are no rank 1 locks and locks are propped up by blood fear". He looks to be pretty spot on judging from your sources.
    2 aspects of this:

    1 is that talents change, and people log out in different talents. Several people have looked at these locks and seen different talents, this does not NECESSARILY mean that any of you are wrong, it COULD mean that they are changing their talents...which should be obvious. For some comps regular fear + UW is better than blood fear.

    2: If they aren't rank 1 currently they may have been a week ago, there are people still playing at high ratings, so they could have gone up or down. This goes both ways, some of them who WERE rank one may not be now, once again, doesn't mean the people looking earlier were wrong, or that the people looking now are wrong.

    Now, that being said, the overall rankings show that locks are not doing too well.

  19. #39
    To be Honest, I feel we arent getting anything in return for blood fear b eing nerfed. we have no way of getting casts off. I truly dont understand why you woiuld make 8 sec interrupts free of cost anyway. Blizzard always says "it's all about making choices" a free interrupt is not a choice but just derp "IR MELEE HARRHURR I OUTSKILLZ U WIV 3 BUTTONZ". If im honest they should just buff fellflame and buff pet damage, cause the way it is now about every melee does more dmg than casters in PvP ( excluding mages and maybe monks/rogue) and since theyr mobility and/or slows have been buffed so hard we are barely more mobile. We need a stun or a horror to become baseline for Aff to even become slightly fun in pvp. Otherwise we will just be a nice addition to a MLS team, but in all fairness you could probably swap out a Lock for an Sp or Boomer in that setup. Am playing Lock right now and if you remove blood fear in its current incarnation Life will suck. Just raise the cd to 15 or 13 seconds.
    Gonna play affli for sure though since forum QQ destroyed destro and demo specs dmg wise, they werent fun to play to begin with.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by impfernal View Post
    To be Honest, I feel we arent getting anything in return for blood fear b eing nerfed. we have no way of getting casts off. I truly dont understand why you woiuld make 8 sec interrupts free of cost anyway. Blizzard always says "it's all about making choices" a free interrupt is not a choice but just derp "IR MELEE HARRHURR I OUTSKILLZ U WIV 3 BUTTONZ". If im honest they should just buff fellflame and buff pet damage, cause the way it is now about every melee does more dmg than casters in PvP ( excluding mages and maybe monks/rogue) and since theyr mobility and/or slows have been buffed so hard we are barely more mobile. We need a stun or a horror to become baseline for Aff to even become slightly fun in pvp. Otherwise we will just be a nice addition to a MLS team, but in all fairness you could probably swap out a Lock for an Sp or Boomer in that setup. Am playing Lock right now and if you remove blood fear in its current incarnation Life will suck. Just raise the cd to 15 or 13 seconds.
    Gonna play affli for sure though since forum QQ destroyed destro and demo specs dmg wise, they werent fun to play to begin with.
    The fact that you can pick up Blood Horror + one of the other CC's gives you two instant self-peels. Plus lock portal. If you are getting trained by melee all game, just take Howl of Terror.

    Also.. no melee in the game gets an 8 second interrupt. And if you are getting kicked so often, just fake-cast. It's really easy to trick melee into kicking.
    And even if locks are doing meh this season, next season casting a cleanse on anyoen on your team will net you a big 80-90k UA crit + 4 second silence. So looking forward to that.

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