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  1. #141
    While they are at it why don't they just remove professions completely. They are too overwhelming also.

  2. #142
    Gemming, enchanting, and reforging collectively offer a path to customizing ones character. In theory, this is a good thing and should always be part of the game. In practice, this conflicts sharply with recent design philosophy to provide players with everything they need in their toolkit, such that the choices they make are meaningful. This is because, as everyone knows, a couple of theorycrafters do the work of defining stat weights for each spec, and the community merely copies the "right" answer to make their characters most popular. If there is any doubt of this, one needs only visit sites like icy-veins.com and askmrrobot.com. These guys "solve" how to make your stat choices in much the same way talent trees were reduced to cookie cutter builds. As of now, these options do not offer a "meaningful" choice.

    They do have value in that they provide for a flowing economy by giving crafters things to make and sell, and this is a good thing that I wouldn't like to see go away.

    However, there is a problem when the game design philosophy regarding character customization has become one-dimensional, when there is a "solution".

    I've attempted to make this point regarding the recent paladin discussion on prot stat weights. Currently, it is more beneficial (by a large margin) to gear for dps stats like haste and mastery over traditional tanking stats like dodge and parry. This is because the stat weights are such that haste is worth nearly twice what dodge and parry are. This means that there is no choice. There is a "right" answer and it's been "solved" - at the expense of a valid choice for an alternative style of play focusing more of passive mitigation.

    A meaningful choice would be granted by raising the %dodge and %parry gained per point to achieve parity (or nearly so) with haste and mastery, such that the player could choose whether to rely on his active mitigation or rely on his passive mitigation as per his play style. This would add value to the game, where the current option does not.

    An older example is one close to my heart. In Vanilla, druids were healers, but some of us enjoyed shapeshifting and found ways to gear ourselves in blue gear with randomly generated +str, +agi, and +stam gear in order to make bears a viable (playable, though not quite progression worthy like warriors) playstyle. I could tank dungeons and MC, and could fill an offtank role in BWL+. While it was not "intended," it was possible with some work, and it was fun. This concept of alternative playstyles has gone the way of the dodo because of loot stat homogenization, but gemming/enchanting/reforging offer the possibility for creative play with a few tweaks to stat priorities. I think the game would benefit from these sort of possibilities.

  3. #143
    I would absolutely miss it. I wish gearing was deeper. I definitely don't want it to be even more limited.

  4. #144
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    sure i would , its a core of rpg mechanics to put something in/on your gear to make it better

  5. #145
    I would, because they do allow me greater customization (pick which gems i want, and some of different enchants are ~equal), plus i got multiple jc's / chanters so would be a waste.

  6. #146
    Enchanting has to stay no matter what. I like gemming but I find reforging and upgrading to be a bit much.

  7. #147
    I am Murloc! Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Enchanting has to stay no matter what. I like gemming but I find reforging and upgrading to be a bit much.
    Don't worry. I'd be very surprised if anything got removed.

    GC probably just wanted to get a discussion going to see what people think.

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  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesftw View Post
    sure i would , its a core of rpg mechanics to put something in/on your gear to make it better
    What? No. There's tons of RPGs that don't give you the option to alter pieces of gear.

    OT: As much of a pain it is to enchant/gem gear sometimes, Blizzards way of distributing stats among items and how they are available have always been terrible. For example, the majority of cloth gear in T13 had a certain lack of crit attached to them, and until 5.1 came, the only way you could get crit on your caster rings (without reforging obviously) was killing Galleon...yeah.

    It would also make reaching caps a bigger pain in the ass, so really, gems/enchants are a necessity.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Enchanting has to stay no matter what. I like gemming but I find reforging and upgrading to be a bit much.
    Completely agree on the item upgrades. That system needs to go and stay gone. All it does is force people to grind VPs when they've already maxed their characters. Because the cost is so high, VP is always better spent on new gear than an upgrade, so it is not a meaningful choice, rather just another hoop to jump through for min/max-ers and another ilvl of stats to contribute to stat inflation.

    Caveat: JP upgrades to blue gear is a good catch up mechanism and I don't have a problem with spending the old-tier points on old-tier gear upgrades to get your foot in the door of the next raid tier. Particularly at the 1500JP /8ilvls, this is not an overpowered option.

  10. #150
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Hell no. You get an item, then you gem it, enchant it, reforge it, ilvl upgrade it, transmog it - you serve your items instead of them serving you. It would be fine if there was just 1 layer of upgrades, and not on all items. What we have now is overkill. I also thought that one profession for item upgrades would be enough.
    Last edited by Haven; 2013-02-04 at 12:37 AM.
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  11. #151
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    When i level a character I always put enchants on my gear, like from 85-90 putting enchants meant for lvl 90's on your gear really makes a HUGE difference and especially here i feel a huge boost in power level, almost 9000 in fact, this is something people rarely do since enchants are not free, but having the ability/option to artificially make you low level character more powerful is appealing to a lot of players, and this is the main reason there is a market for blue gear overlapping expansions.

    This is not the main reason i like enchanting tho, it brings some value to items in the game that would otherwise be worthless like most BoE green items would be instant vendor trash essentially being looked upon as grey items, instead this profession can take those otherwise worthless items and transform them into powerful upgrades for your gear. Just because it's mainstream now to have your gear end-game enchanted doesn't mean it's a useless thing to have in the game, bringing some sort of value to other things in the game is a good thing in my book.

  12. #152
    I am Murloc! Granyala's Avatar
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    Completely agree on the item upgrades. That system needs to go and stay gone. All it does is force people to grind VPs when they've already maxed their characters. Because the cost is so high, VP is always better spent on new gear than an upgrade, so it is not a meaningful choice, rather just another hoop to jump through for min/max-ers and another ilvl of stats to contribute to stat inflation.
    Agreed! I hate it a lot.
    JP pimping can stay. Facilitates being able to get into LFR for alts.

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  13. #153
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    God no I wouldn't miss it. They could give us a little more stats built-in and then it would be one less thing to optimize. We'd still have reforging.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Hell no. You get an item, then you gem it, enchant it, reforge it, ilvl upgrade it, transmog it - you serve your items instead of them serving you. It would be fine if there was just 1 layer of upgrades, and not on all items. What we have now is overkill. I also thought that one profession for item upgrades would be enough.
    What we have now isn't anywhere near enough. It's disappointingly shallow honestly.

  15. #155
    i for one would miss it. plus what's with all this spending a ton of gold for all of it. that is what alts and guild members are for. i haven't spent money on enchants in forever and very little on gems. its not like everybody is broke, what else are you really going to spend your gold on. if you can't drop a couple 100g on some gems/enchants you need to look at what your doing wrong. you can very easily make that up in 1 day. if anything i would love to see that gems/enchants change the look of gear a bit. not just the shine on weapons.

  16. #156
    gemming yes
    enchanting not really

    enchanting due to its limited choices per slot is for the most a no brainer, gemming gives a true flexibility of choice
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  17. #157
    With reforging, they are redundent. You can how hit caps through just changing the stats on gear. I would not miss it at all.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by skitzy129 View Post
    What we have now isn't anywhere near enough. It's disappointingly shallow honestly.
    You sound like you wouldn't be happy until you could change Cloth Int gear into Strength Plate.
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  19. #159
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    I wouldn't miss them at all. They are so one-dimensional that they don't really offer any options outside of filling the gaps for hit/exp caps.

    Instead they should go back to the old gearing model where not everything were primary/stam/secondary/secondary. Some gear without stam, some gear with high hit/exp etc should make gearing more involved and fun.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    You sound like you wouldn't be happy until you could change Cloth Int gear into Strength Plate.
    Yes, clearly I want to break the game fundamentally.

    That's obviously what I want to happen to fill the lack of gearing and stat mechanics.

    sigh.

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