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  1. #81
    I think Bolvar will turn Evil someday and the Helm of domination will turn him over time.

    The whole reason for this to me is that Arthas reverted back to himself the moment he lost the Helm and the blue light in his eyes faded.

    My view is that if Arthas was truly the source of the Lich King's Evil he would never have reverted back to himself before dying.

    I think Ner'Zhul or some other corrupting essence could still exist in the helm. If Frostmourne could be so all consuming of souls, what could the helm be?

    Also To the people who say that Arthas killed Ner'Zhul consider the following:

    Arthas not only destroyed Ner'Zhul in the book but also killed the little boy who represented himself and his humanity in the same book. Even after this we saw both the little boy in questing and Arthas reverted back to his humanity before death. So from that I would say Ner'Zhul's death is far from certain.

    Also, Arthas had good intentions he took up Frostmourne from a desire to protect his people. Bolvar took up the helm of domination from a desire to protect the world.
    Bolvar may yet fall from grace and the helm could turn out to be just as bad if not worse than frostmourne
    Last edited by Briga; 2013-02-04 at 11:19 AM.

  2. #82
    Can anyone tell me again why Nerzhul is depicted as such an evil entity, while in the book (when the Orcs were still peacefull etc until they were deceived) Nerzhul was tricked by "The Beautifull One" and later turned turned away from that path. What made him an evil entity afterall? Guldan was the one that truly relished in his power.

  3. #83
    One lich king to rule them all... and in the darkness bind them!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Can anyone tell me again why Nerzhul is depicted as such an evil entity, while in the book (when the Orcs were still peacefull etc until they were deceived) Nerzhul was tricked by "The Beautifull One" and later turned turned away from that path. What made him an evil entity afterall? Guldan was the one that truly relished in his power.
    He went mad with lust for power.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    One lich king to rule them all... and in the darkness bind them!

    He went mad with lust for power.
    Where is this found? Not that I don't believe you, the result is there. But how did this came to be?

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Can anyone tell me again why Nerzhul is depicted as such an evil entity, while in the book (when the Orcs were still peacefull etc until they were deceived) Nerzhul was tricked by "The Beautifull One" and later turned turned away from that path. What made him an evil entity afterall? Guldan was the one that truly relished in his power.
    Ner'Zhul was tricked into making the blood pact with Kil'Jaeden as I understand it, after that he became as driven as any old Horde orc.

    He was haunted by his visions of death and wore skull facepaint because of this, little did he know those visions were of his future as the LK.

    When he opened the portals and fled Draenor (possibly trying to escape his failure and his future) KJ captured him destroyed his body and tortured his spirit forcing him to become the Lich King slave to the legion. He of course rebelled and freed himself through Arthas and Frostmourne.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Briga View Post
    Ner'Zhul was tricked into making the blood pact with Kil'Jaeden as I understand it, after that he became as driven as any old Horde orc.

    He was haunted by his visions of death and wore skull facepaint because of this, little did he know those visions were of his future as the LK.

    When he opened the portals and fled Draenor (possibly trying to escape his failure and his future) KJ captured him destroyed his body and tortured his spirit forcing him to become the Lich King slave to the legion. He of course rebelled and freed himself through Arthas and Frostmourne.
    Ah right. So it is sorta of a vengeance deal here.

  7. #87
    I always figured the whole reason for Bolvar taking over and the scourge not being destroyed as a faction was so that if Blizzard ever decided to make a warcraft 4 they could still have the scourge as a playable race.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by ShayMG View Post
    I always figured the whole reason for Bolvar taking over and the scourge not being destroyed as a faction was so that if Blizzard ever decided to make a warcraft 4 they could still have the scourge as a playable race.
    Oh nicely done - didn't think of that.

    But I guess you came to that conclusion based on the reason that there is no real logical reason to keep him ingame right?

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Totle View Post
    As much as I'd love to have that "ally comes in at the 11th hour to bolster our forces" kind of scenario, I would imagine what might happen is... the Legion comes to Azeroth and tries to have the Scourge reactivated. When they go to order Bolvar/LK to unleash the Scourge, he tells them to piss off and the Legion obliterates them. The Scourge are set free and they start attacking everything, which at the moment happens to be the Legion.

    The Legion finishes off the Scourge and that threat is permanently expunged from Azeroth.
    The Scourge leaderless will wreck more shit than you would imagine. I doubt it with the limited numbers of Legion(Unless Sargeras or Kil'Jaeden got involved) they will stand a change to them. Even with a Legion invasion.
    "Yes, I'm one of those GW2 fan boys who quit WoW and never even played GW1."[/IMG]

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Ah right. So it is sorta of a vengeance deal here.
    Definately.

    His story is an interesting one because he was not a willing servant of Kil'jaeden (in fact it was he who told the frostwolves not to drink the demon blood), Gul'Dan supplanted him and he became leader of the Horde on Draenor when Teron Gorefiend approached him and they hatched the plans to open more portals. Eventually in his lust for power he destroyed Draenor.

    He only served willingly in the end when he was broken by him until he promised to serve, even then he was denied physical form, was imprisoned in the Frozen throne and controlled by dreadlord minders. Only through arthas did he break free. KJ really didn't trust him one bit.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Shink View Post
    He resisted the torture, he didn't turn at all, Saurfang was the one that fell to corruption


    probably was playing us but i don't think someone like bolvar would turn so easily after we "rescued" him, though we don't know anything about how powerful the helm is alone without the sword so he might turn soon idk
    Dranosh didn't fell. If you watch the cinematic, Bolvar was killed by the plague and Saurfang had his soul removed by Frostmourn. That was nothing but a empty shell the Lich King corrupted. And Bolvar have the fire of life burning in him. He is not a easy one to corrupt, but the OP have a point. Evil have a lot of time and no interference from good on the hands. Who knows for how long the fire can protect Bolvar's mind?

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  12. #92
    Fluffy Kitten Aciaedius's Avatar
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    Does anyone have a source for these claims that Metzen confirmed Ner'zhul's death? All I can find from Blizzcon is:

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "Yes. Yeah, Ner'zhul is done. He served us well in that capacity, but really the Lich King idea... really has the ultimate expression, you know, as Arthas or whatever. Ner'zhul's done."
    If that's what you're all referring to, it's not the same thing as saying Ner'zhul is dead. All it means is that (at the time of answering), they had no plans of expanding his story. His fate after A:RotLK is left ambiguous where as Mathias explicitly survived being skewered by Frostmourne in the dream.

    Now, I personally doubt Ner'zhul will ever play a role again. Bolvar is probably able to handle things (seeing as he took the Helm of Domination un-corrupted, where as Arthas was already the vessel of Frostmourne) even if we do encounter him again. But unless there's some other source I've missed, don't say it's been confirmed that Arthas killed him in the book. :/
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  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmazingFeedz View Post
    The Scourge leaderless will wreck more shit than you would imagine. I doubt it with the limited numbers of Legion(Unless Sargeras or Kil'Jaeden got involved) they will stand a change to them. Even with a Legion invasion.
    i dont get quite what you mean to say here but if you're saying that the legion doesnt have a chance against the scourge and that the legion has limited numbers....no on both counts.

    The legion invented the plague of undeath and number in millions of fallen worlds with an endless ocean of demons marching forward consuming worlds. Thus "the Burning Legion". The only problem they face is transportation in way of portal support.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Where are you seeing that the Valkyr have left? I still see them in Northrend, don't you? Still doing the same stuff they did when Arthas was in control. Same for any other undead. All of them are still very much active in their respective zones and instances.

    If you are referring to a novel or comic then I gladly be given a reference to that, cause I want to read everything concerning wow lore.
    Gameplay and story segregation. Current Wotlk content is still pre-Lich King Arthas Death. the story line still goes along as if we've recently arrived and bring the fight to arthas al the way upto the icecrown quests and dispatching him. Basicly its "in the past". story wise when we go there. So we still see the valkyr fly around there and telling Ingvar he failed them after eating too much sour candy and singing too much karaoke the night before.

    Ingame as seen in cata (and books) the valkyr have gone to sylvanas and are bonded to her now. The major ones that is, with the lesser valkyr in tow (i think). Already a few of the..lets call them...Arch-Valkyr have fallen resurrecting Sylvanas (twice, once when she comitted suicide in a story set shortly right after Arthas's death and one ingame when she's shot in the back during the Gilnaes invasion {seen horde quest side}) and atleast one died in battle at WPL with the alliance.

    They currently serve as a means of reproduction for the forsaken, or that is...bolstering their numbers with the fallen dead turning into the forsaken (and given a choice to join or go back to the grave (or be mindless in some cases)

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post
    i dont get quite what you mean to say here but if you're saying that the legion doesnt have a chance against the scourge and that the legion has limited numbers....no on both counts.

    The legion invented the plague of undeath and number in millions of fallen worlds with an endless ocean of demons marching forward consuming worlds. Thus "the Burning Legion". The only problem they face is transportation in way of portal support.




    Gameplay and story segregation. Current Wotlk content is still pre-Lich King Arthas Death. the story line still goes along as if we've recently arrived and bring the fight to arthas al the way upto the icecrown quests and dispatching him. Basicly its "in the past". story wise when we go there. So we still see the valkyr fly around there and telling Ingvar he failed them after eating too much sour candy and singing too much karaoke the night before.

    Ingame as seen in cata (and books) the valkyr have gone to sylvanas and are bonded to her now. The major ones that is, with the lesser valkyr in tow (i think). Already a few of the..lets call them...Arch-Valkyr have fallen resurrecting Sylvanas (twice, once when she comitted suicide in a story set shortly right after Arthas's death and one ingame when she's shot in the back during the Gilnaes invasion {seen horde quest side}) and atleast one died in battle at WPL with the alliance.

    They currently serve as a means of reproduction for the forsaken, or that is...bolstering their numbers with the fallen dead turning into the forsaken (and given a choice to join or go back to the grave (or be mindless in some cases)
    Thanks for that little piece of info

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Nonslid View Post
    So what do you think? Will we see a return of Bolvar as an evil force, making us fight the scourge yet again.
    This is pretty much a given. He already deceived Tirion into not telling the others he even exists. He has all the privacy and time to build up an army.
    Not to mention that his voice grows darker as he freezes himself.

    But I don't think it's very good storytelling.

    First of, Arthas apparently had a little bit of humanity left as the Lich King (that's what kept the Scourge from annihilating everything), even though Tirion said he did not have any humanity left as he destroyed his heart. Also, Arthas' last words make him seem his old human self.

    And if Bolvar turns out be a good guy that uses the Scourge against a common enemy, like say the Burning Legion, that makes it quite silly imo. The previous Lich King already meant to fight the Burning Legion with his Scourge, he just wanted to unite all of Azeroth under the Scourge first. If they choose this route, it kinda looks like they went back on their decision of making the Lich King an enemy in the first place.

    And well.. Bolvar being the next evil Lich King.... yeah that just seems like milking it to me. It's just as bad as fighting Onyxia and Nefarian again, but this time it's a rehash of an entire expansion.

    Best would've been to just end the Lich King and Scourge in WotLK I think. But that would've rendered Northrend quite pointless.

    Anyway, for now Bolvar turning evil seems the most likely. I'd like to see them bring back Ner'zhul the Lich King. They can totally make up a story that Ner'zhul deceived Arthas and got rid of him in favor of a new host: Bolvar. That would make a rehash of WotLK a little less boring.

  16. #96
    How come the lich king made arthas evil and not bolvar?
    Don't get it.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadmedic View Post
    i actually think that the lick king poured his life energy into bolvar before arthas finally died, how else could arthas "comeback" to normal and talk to his father like that, who knows that the Lich king was doing to bolvar before we got there, preparing him, perhaps, as a worst case scenario... just saying that scene where bolvar is being crowned, that's eerie, it doesn't look normal, it looks sinister.
    Because arthas soul too was consumed by frostmoune which freed him too when it got destroyed.

  18. #98
    The Lightbringer Ciddy's Avatar
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    I think Blizzard may revisit Bolvar at some point, but I don't think it'll be some deal where he turns evil/we have to fight him again. We'd kinda have a Kael'thas "ICECROWN CITADEL WAS MERELY A SETBACK!!111!!" thing going on there if they did. Also, he'd likely be a boss in a dungeon instead of an actual raid, which would be boring. Bolvar is too awesome for that.

    Either way, I do think Bolvar will have at least some part to play when/if the Legion returns. Probably minor though. We've already had an entire expansion that revolved around the Lich King, so I think whatever he does will be minor.
    Last edited by Ciddy; 2013-02-04 at 04:13 PM.
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  19. #99
    i hope not. Bolvar being the new lich king was terrible lore, i hope they just burry whole of it and never speak of it again.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmalya View Post
    Because arthas soul too was consumed by frostmoune which freed him too when it got destroyed.
    A good theory, the problem is Arthas was not back to normal when the sword broke, we beat him down the last 10% and he was still acting defiant.

    Only when he lost the Helm as well did he revert, which is why I don't think the Sword is as important as the Helm of Domination.

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