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  1. #101
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Briga View Post
    A good theory, the problem is Arthas was not back to normal when the sword broke, we beat him down the last 10% and he was still acting defiant.

    Only when he lost the Helm as well did he revert, which is why I don't think the Sword is as important as the Helm of Domination.
    The sword is after all a connection to the Lich King, which is what drove him over the edge. Bolvar may not have frostmourne, but he has the Helm and as such is directly connected with Ner'zhul wrestling for control, I guess he too will fall sooner or later.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  2. #102
    Immortal KrazyK923's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The sword is after all a connection to the Lich King, which is what drove him over the edge. Bolvar may not have frostmourne, but he has the Helm and as such is directly connected with Ner'zhul wrestling for control, I guess he too will fall sooner or later.
    Ner'zhul is gone. Confirmed by Metzen.

  3. #103
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Ner'zhul is gone. Confirmed by Metzen.
    How did I miss that one oh well, still I doubt bolvar will stay clean undead tends to corrupt people over time.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    I always have the feeling that Bolvar the new Lich king will help us defeating the Burning Legion when they come back. Specially the fight against Kil'jaeden at full power, we will have the current Lich King helping us and acting some kind of an anti hero bat man who works behind the shadow for the greater good thingy.
    This is what I hope for as well. Would be really lame if he ended up turning evil then we have to defeat him.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    How did I miss that one oh well, still I doubt bolvar will stay clean undead tends to corrupt people over time.
    Not sure about that claim of undeath. Meryl Felstorm has been undead for awhile. Then again, it's the comics, and thus "lol".

  6. #106
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dastreus View Post
    Not sure about that claim of undeath. Meryl Felstorm has been undead for awhile. Then again, it's the comics, and thus "lol".
    Of course there are exceptions but so many have changed, just look at the forsaken. They are free but they are not the same people they used to be in life.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  7. #107
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    ive always wondered that if nerzhul/arthas/lich king are truly defeated and its just bolvar in there, then why did his voice change when he put on the helm of domination?

  8. #108
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dokilar View Post
    ive always wondered that if nerzhul/arthas/lich king are truly defeated and its just bolvar in there, then why did his voice change when he put on the helm of domination?
    Because it's cooler that way.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
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    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Briga View Post
    A good theory, the problem is Arthas was not back to normal when the sword broke, we beat him down the last 10% and he was still acting defiant.

    Only when he lost the Helm as well did he revert, which is why I don't think the Sword is as important as the Helm of Domination.
    It is still Frostmourne that steal peoples soul. The Helm might have more power and is what made the Lich King, Lich King. But without the Sword releasing the souls it devoured there would be no way arthas could have turned humanish again in the end. Iam pretty sure of that.

  10. #110
    Over 9000! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nonslid View Post
    Hey

    I just thought of something, do you think Bolvar will "turn" evil someday, and that we need to fight him as a new Lich King? I've never been a big lore fan or anything, but I killed LK again today and it made me think of it.

    For those that do not know who I'm talking about:
    Bolvar was a soldier of the alliance, that went up against the Lich King, got poisened by the Forsaken and burned by Dragons breath/fire. Wich left him as a living burned man.
    And when the Lich King was defeated, he got crowned as a new Lich King, as there must always be one.

    So what do you think? Will we see a return of Bolvar as an evil force, making us fight the scourge yet again.
    I think it was hinted at in the Velen shortstory.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 07:34 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Ner'zhul is gone. Confirmed by Metzen.
    I still don't buy that. If Ner'zhul is gone, what kind of power remained in the helm?

  11. #111
    Quote where Metzen said that Ner'zhul was gone or whatever. Because when I read the book it just sounded like Arthas completely suppressed Ner'zhul's control over him. But, even that sounded fishy to me. Because it still seemed like Ner'zhul kind of.. let him believe that Arthas had won because it gave him even more incentive to be evil? It was when Arthas was in his head, slaying Ner'zhul and his younger child innocent self.


    And as the guy above me asked, if Ner'zhul is dead, then what power does Bolvar have? He just has an empty helmet. Neither Arthas nor Bolvar had any powers of necromancy or connecting to spirits or control over the dead before they put on the helm, the only reason Arthas was able to was because Ner'zhul did. The helm isn't empowered, all of the power came from Ner'zhul's torture by Kil'Jaeden and his own shamanistic and warlock background. You can't just kill off Ner'zhul AND Arthas, and still have a random helm that grants Bolvar the ability to control the scourge?

    That just doesn't add up to me. If you're talking about the book, you need to reread the passage because it could be left WIIIDDEE open to interpretation. If Metzen himself said that Ner'zhul is permanently gone and dead, and Arthas' soul isn't trapped in the helmet similarly to Ner'zhul... then Metzen needs to fine tune his story and explain how this whole scourge thing is still happening. It just doesn't add up that Ner'zhul is dead. It also doesn't make sense that Ner'zhul would be dead because.. well... Ner'zhul is a bad ass and doesn't deserve to be killed off in some pyschic feud with some pansy whiny know-nothing spoiled brat prince.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 08:23 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    I think it was hinted at in the Velen shortstory.


    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 07:34 AM ----------


    Where is this shortstory? I'm curious because I keep seeing people post about Velen's prophecy and all of this other stuff and haven't actually read the lore part of it. Was it something in the comics?




    I still don't buy that. If Ner'zhul is gone, what kind of power remained in the helm?


    Where is this shortstory? I'm curious because I keep seeing people post about Velen's prophecy and all of this other stuff and haven't actually read the lore part of it. Was it something in the comics?

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Shink View Post
    He resisted the torture, he didn't turn at all, Saurfang was the one that fell to corruption
    He was ressed from death.. there was no falling to corruption. He was ressed to be a DK from the get go, there was no torture and him falling to corruption.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by cptaylor38 View Post
    Quote where Metzen said that Ner'zhul was gone or whatever. Because when I read the book it just sounded like Arthas completely suppressed Ner'zhul's control over him. But, even that sounded fishy to me. Because it still seemed like Ner'zhul kind of.. let him believe that Arthas had won because it gave him even more incentive to be evil? It was when Arthas was in his head, slaying Ner'zhul and his younger child innocent self.

    I agree with you.

    The book showed Arthas took control from Ner'Zhul announcing he would be the only Lich King. Ner'Zhul was not attacked in his head he simply vanished. Arthas also impaled Mathias on frostmourne inside his head as well, but we all know from Wrath that didn't stop him from returning.

    The book seemed to show a power struggle inside his head, Arthas won and buried Ner'Zhul and the little boy. The little boy returned, why not Ner'Zhul?

  14. #114
    High Overlord Pippo89's Avatar
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    I believe Blizzard won't use Bolvar anymore.

    Remember the Dread Lord in Icecrown? Balnazzar I think. He said we won't defeat the Lich King without his help and that they (the Legion / the Nathrezim?) will crush both the Lich King and us, or something like that.
    I was excited to see the Dread Lord (and all enemies of Arthas) in Icecrown Citadel.

    But in the end, as we know, we face the Lich King alone with only Tirion on our side.
    No Muradin, he just stands around at the place where the Deathbringer was.
    Sylvanas: No appearance for either faction.
    Jaina: Teleports in with Varian and just leaves.. Varian only appeared in the entrance when the raidwide buff was released. He just camped there xD
    All other faction leaders: Didn't care about the Lich King's defeat or what?

    And, like described above, no Dread Lord who has promised he will get revenge on both the Lich King and on us.
    Don't get me wrong, the encounter was cool. But only Tirion was a bit disappointing.

    That's a sad weakness of Blizzard to not include lore characters in fights where they belong to, besides the Aspects at the Maelstrom.
    Like Grand Empress Shek'zeer.. Where are the Klaxxi? Only a few have been impaled in the Palace Antechamber and those were apparently no Paragons.

    At least Captain Lorewalker is guiding us in the Mogu'shan Vaults. Just a little more NPC influence in raids would be cool.

    Yeah, it was a bit Offtopic. Sorry for that.
    But after all that, the possibility is high that they do not pick up Bolvar again. Like they did with N'zoth and Azshara. Perhaps the latter will follow in an addon, but come on, so much rumour about both of them in Cataclysm and then MoP drops and they're "forgotten"?
    The roots of evil are deep. Irreversibly so in the hearts of men.

  15. #115
    Dreadlord Jawless Jones's Avatar
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    before you make a "Nerzhul is still in the helmet" post, please do us a favour and read Arthas: Rise of the Lich King...
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    Stop complaining to solve your lack of ability, and start reading and practicing to gain ability. Stop trying to bring people down to your level instead of striving to raise yours.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Briga View Post
    I agree with you.

    The book showed Arthas took control from Ner'Zhul announcing he would be the only Lich King. Ner'Zhul was not attacked in his head he simply vanished. Arthas also impaled Mathias on frostmourne inside his head as well, but we all know from Wrath that didn't stop him from returning.

    The book seemed to show a power struggle inside his head, Arthas won and buried Ner'Zhul and the little boy. The little boy returned, why not Ner'Zhul?
    The little boy did return before he vanished. I am pretty sure that after his heart was destroyed the little boy was going to dissapear soon aswell.
    That scene ingame might not have been written in the book, but I am pretty certain this was the chronological way of events.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    The little boy did return before he vanished. I am pretty sure that after his heart was destroyed the little boy was going to dissapear soon aswell.
    That scene ingame might not have been written in the book, but I am pretty certain this was the chronological way of events.
    The little boy didn't vanish though, the boy represented his humanity and Arthas reverted to his humanity upon losing the helm just before death and "I see only darkness for me"

    Also remember the Sylvanas short story where she visits the void after death. She sees him there, a terrified little boy for all eternity in darkness.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate View Post
    It was in the Arthas book
    It is hard to take the book or the game as a stone set truth due to following inconsistencies:
    1) In the book Matthias Lehner, Arthas's manifestation of humanity was supposedly killed by Arthas himself during his dream state after merging with Ner'zhul. And yet here we have a big questline in Icecrown where he seems to be perfectly fine working as a tour guide about Arthas's humanity all over Icecrown.

    2) The book states that Ner'zhul dissapeared, not killed, absorbed, subdued, banished... simply dissapeared. So it doesnt definetely states that Ner'zhul was gone for good. If he really was controlled or absorbed in any way shape or form by Arthas, there would be a clear indication of it when he was finally free from Lich King (himself according to book) grasp.

    3) Back to the Matthias's quest line. At the end of it we destroy his heart which supposedly (or adleast according to Tirion) was the last remnant of his humanity, and yet here we are at WotLK last cinematic and see as our chap Arthas free from Lich King (according to book his own) grasp seems to be rather relieved with the fact that "it is over". Funny... for someone who has no heart or humanity left, he sure seemed to be quite "relieved" when he said "I see".

    Bottom line?
    Lich King lore is a freaking mess that makes no sense whether you look it from book or game perspective. My bet is that blizzard will pull of cop-out story where Ner'zhul hid his spirit inside the helm while Lich King (Arthas according to book, Fusion minus Arthas's heart/humanity according to facts known by our characters) struggle agianst heroes (10/25 man raid) where his dominance over him was at it weakest. After that Ner'zhul probably waited for a new host to come by and put on the crown. Poor ol' Bolvar is probably having a quarrel or two with Ner'zhul over who gets the top bed haha.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Pippo89 View Post
    I

    But after all that, the possibility is high that they do not pick up Bolvar again. Like they did with N'zoth and Azshara. Perhaps the latter will follow in an addon, but come on, so much rumour about both of them in Cataclysm and then MoP drops and they're "forgotten"?
    Bolvar is too big not to be picked up on again. And as for Azshara and N'zoth, no they arent forgotten, that was just hints of future events to come. We dont face them in Pandaria (because what the hell do they have to do with it) but we WILL later, much later when the time comes. There was no "rumour of them both in cataclysm", they were simply mentioned (azahara even appears in Darkshore..though probably in a hopefully placeholder model) and hinted at. But in no way are they forgotten. Deathwing was beaten, the hour of twilight halted for now. New plans are being made and new plans are intended by N'Zoth and Aszhara, but they wont come to fruition during this expansion atleast.

    In Vanilla we has naxx where when we reached Kelthuzad, he calls to his master and his master ANSWERS back, i remember pissing my pants in the first time i fought him in reaction to that. but it wasnt until after TBC (where no LK and undead were mentioned, though just as now not "forgotten" as we saw later)

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Briga View Post
    The little boy didn't vanish though, the boy represented his humanity and Arthas reverted to his humanity upon losing the helm just before death and "I see only darkness for me"

    Also remember the Sylvanas short story where she visits the void after death. She sees him there, a terrified little boy for all eternity in darkness.
    Do you feel that is justice? I for one do not. Sure he killed thousands or atleast is responsible for such numbers. But really does he deserve this fate? Especially if he is that little boy. The little boy was the one good part of Arthas, why should that part suffer? Why did they depict him as a little boy and not the menace that he was?

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