1. #1
    Pit Lord Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Bottle of Infinite Stars vs. Terror in the Mists

    So, which is better? Here's my armory link, http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ncaps/advanced

    I simmed it through Femaledwarf and got Bottle being 260 dps better, but I'd like to get a second opinion.

  2. #2
    I prefer Terror as an SV Hunter.

    Tbh I find the difference practically negligible.

  3. #3
    H bottle > H TiTM > RoX > bottle > TiTM

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    H bottle > H TiTM > RoX > bottle > TiTM
    Thank you sir (or ma'am)

  5. #5
    Lets have a theoretical look at this:
    Bottle ICD: 45 sec + 5sec to procc = about 1300 agi from procc on average
    TitM ICD: 105 sec + 5sec to procc = about 1300 critrating from procc on average.
    Now that's just an approximation, but we see that there's more stats in the procc than on items statically.
    This speaks in favor of bottle, because it has the agi in the procc, which gives us more agi which is worth more then the additional crit from TiTM.

    Looking at the second stats, TiTM has crit, wheras Bottle has Mastery. in this aspect TiTM wins.

    Now there's another argument that you should take into account: what other trinket do you have? if that trinket is the Relic, you allready have a procc trinket. one procc trinket is okey, because you can time your CDs on it (by waiting with ig CDs if ICD soon ready). If you have 2 procc trinkets, you will most defenetly not have them synchronized after 2-3 minutes any more.
    Additionally in a BM perspective, those 2 trinkets procc to often. (Relic has lower chance due to proccing only on crits) they will soon procc and run out before your Bestial Wrath is ready again. When you can time your proccs with BW, they are worth substantially more, but as you probably can't, the static stats gain in value compared to the procc.

    My conclusion is: if you're SV, you don't have anything special to time the proccs with, so more stats is worth more, so I would advocate Bottle > TiTM.
    If you're BM and have a Relic (which you should) I would go with TiTM > Bottle, and always try to time BW with Relic.
    Because of the 2 procc trinkets "dilemma" I'm currently running with Relic + Arrowflight, because of the 1min CD you can always perfectly align the whole stats on the trinkets with BW, where as with 2 procc trinkets thats just never possible. (after the start)
    Not saying this is the only right thing to do, must admit I haven't simmed this stuff yet, but I prefer to play the way that makes sense to me (rather than that way some random algorithm, of which I have no clue how good it reall yis, tells me that X is 50dps better)

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    Lets have a theoretical look at this:
    Bottle ICD: 45 sec + 5sec to procc = about 1300 agi from procc on average
    TitM ICD: 105 sec + 5sec to procc = about 1300 critrating from procc on average.
    Now that's just an approximation, but we see that there's more stats in the procc than on items statically.
    This speaks in favor of bottle, because it has the agi in the procc, which gives us more agi which is worth more then the additional crit from TiTM.

    Looking at the second stats, TiTM has crit, wheras Bottle has Mastery. in this aspect TiTM wins.

    Now there's another argument that you should take into account: what other trinket do you have? if that trinket is the Relic, you allready have a procc trinket. one procc trinket is okey, because you can time your CDs on it (by waiting with ig CDs if ICD soon ready). If you have 2 procc trinkets, you will most defenetly not have them synchronized after 2-3 minutes any more.
    Additionally in a BM perspective, those 2 trinkets procc to often. (Relic has lower chance due to proccing only on crits) they will soon procc and run out before your Bestial Wrath is ready again. When you can time your proccs with BW, they are worth substantially more, but as you probably can't, the static stats gain in value compared to the procc.

    My conclusion is: if you're SV, you don't have anything special to time the proccs with, so more stats is worth more, so I would advocate Bottle > TiTM.
    If you're BM and have a Relic (which you should) I would go with TiTM > Bottle, and always try to time BW with Relic.
    Because of the 2 procc trinkets "dilemma" I'm currently running with Relic + Arrowflight, because of the 1min CD you can always perfectly align the whole stats on the trinkets with BW, where as with 2 procc trinkets thats just never possible. (after the start)
    Not saying this is the only right thing to do, must admit I haven't simmed this stuff yet, but I prefer to play the way that makes sense to me (rather than that way some random algorithm, of which I have no clue how good it reall yis, tells me that X is 50dps better)
    You're right in a sense of how it should be done, but wrong in a sense that Relic is absolutely terrible for timings due to it's low proc chance. You can literally go 20+ seconds sometimes without it proccing, simply due to RNG. Even having BiS crit levels (Which I do) the uptime is horrendous.
    Last edited by Arktem; 2013-02-07 at 09:16 AM.

  7. #7
    There shouldn't be a choice between BoIS/TitM, use both, double upgraded of course! Though RoX is a close third behind TitM.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    Because of the 2 procc trinkets "dilemma" I'm currently running with Relic + Arrowflight, because of the 1min CD you can always perfectly align the whole stats on the trinkets with BW
    That's not completely true, every Readiness throws the sync off completely and that's going to lose you a lot of the stats due to having to delay it by about 25-35 seconds. This is a old-ish post of mine on the official forums where someone was asking for the difference between Medallion, Xuen and Bottle. It might be useful to you or the OP as well. Just bear in mind because that person wasn't raiding I simplified it a little bit.

    It's post number 10 I'm talking about.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6200801645
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Arktem View Post
    You're right in a sense of how it should be done, but wrong in a sense that Relic is absolutely terrible for timings due to it's low proc chance. You can literally go 20+ seconds sometimes without it proccing, simply due to RNG. Even having BiS crit levels (Which I do) the uptime is horrendous.
    yes thats why it is good ^^ well sort of. what I'm saying, is that with its lowish proccchance, the time between proccs is much nearer to 1min (45sec ICD + maybe 15sec to procc) which would align nicely to Bestial Wrath. (whereas Bottle has 45sec ICD and proccs quite directly, thus it will be out of sync quite fast)

    @bovan not saying its the only best thing to do. What you can do, to not have to delay it's second use by nearly 45 seconds, is to activate it on the 2nd BW (after readyness), then the next 4 will align perfectly (where as the 5th will be with delayed for ~15sec for the 2nd BW after readyness again)

    going with Relic+bottle is perfectly viable aswell of course, having a higher chance of having an agi-procc up when using BW on cooldown is also a good thing.
    (but I only got Relic + Arrowflight + Mists normal, I prefere the Crit on demand which lines up nicely over the random crit procc)

  10. #10
    Pit Lord Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    Lets have a theoretical look at this:
    Bottle ICD: 45 sec + 5sec to procc = about 1300 agi from procc on average
    TitM ICD: 105 sec + 5sec to procc = about 1300 critrating from procc on average.
    Now that's just an approximation, but we see that there's more stats in the procc than on items statically.
    This speaks in favor of bottle, because it has the agi in the procc, which gives us more agi which is worth more then the additional crit from TiTM.

    Looking at the second stats, TiTM has crit, wheras Bottle has Mastery. in this aspect TiTM wins.

    Now there's another argument that you should take into account: what other trinket do you have? if that trinket is the Relic, you allready have a procc trinket. one procc trinket is okey, because you can time your CDs on it (by waiting with ig CDs if ICD soon ready). If you have 2 procc trinkets, you will most defenetly not have them synchronized after 2-3 minutes any more.
    Additionally in a BM perspective, those 2 trinkets procc to often. (Relic has lower chance due to proccing only on crits) they will soon procc and run out before your Bestial Wrath is ready again. When you can time your proccs with BW, they are worth substantially more, but as you probably can't, the static stats gain in value compared to the procc.

    My conclusion is: if you're SV, you don't have anything special to time the proccs with, so more stats is worth more, so I would advocate Bottle > TiTM.
    If you're BM and have a Relic (which you should) I would go with TiTM > Bottle, and always try to time BW with Relic.
    Because of the 2 procc trinkets "dilemma" I'm currently running with Relic + Arrowflight, because of the 1min CD you can always perfectly align the whole stats on the trinkets with BW, where as with 2 procc trinkets thats just never possible. (after the start)
    Not saying this is the only right thing to do, must admit I haven't simmed this stuff yet, but I prefer to play the way that makes sense to me (rather than that way some random algorithm, of which I have no clue how good it reall yis, tells me that X is 50dps better)
    Not sure if you thought about this and just forgot to mention it, but TiTM also has static agility, I believe around 1100. So, to simplify things, It'd be 1100 agility and 1300 crit, vs. 1300 agility and ~400 mastery and ~400 crit. The difference between the Terror and Bottle is, -200 Agility, +900 crit, -400 mastery. Looking at that it does seem like Terror is weaker than Bottle.

    @timoseewho Is RoX really worse than TitM? I always thought that RoX was the best trinket outside of Heroic Trinkets.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Shootandkill View Post
    Not sure if you thought about this and just forgot to mention it, but TiTM also has static agility, I believe around 1100. So, to simplify things, It'd be 1100 agility and 1300 crit, vs. 1300 agility and ~400 mastery and ~400 crit. The difference between the Terror and Bottle is, -200 Agility, +900 crit, -400 mastery. Looking at that it does seem like Terror is weaker than Bottle.

    @timoseewho Is RoX really worse than TitM? I always thought that RoX was the best trinket outside of Heroic Trinkets.
    Yes Relic is bis pre heroic.

    Sort of off topic but, in my opinion regular Titm is worse than LFR Bottle.

  12. #12
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    TiTM heroic is a great trinket. Once I got it, I forgot all about RoX, the reliability alone of the trinket just made me happy in my happy places.

    Of course, this is coupled with H-Bottle, whcih is far and away our BiS.

  13. #13
    Realistically your BiS overall should be H:Bottle and H:Terror. Relic looks really appealing because it's agi proccing agi but the other trinkets generally proc as soon as the ICD is up. Relic can take ages and I mean AGES. I had a time where relic's ICD was up and it took about 40 secs for it to proc again. Don't get me wrong, it's great for a starter trinket but overall it's nothing special.

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