Thread: Eye For An Eye

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  1. #1

    Eye For An Eye

    So I was thinking. What if Ret got "Eye For An Eye" back as a baseline passive? It could help out quite a bit in pvp in terms of making people not want to focus the Ret paladin due to taking damage from their own attacks. It would also help with our sustained damage problem and make it so we aren't giving up all of our damage to self heal.

    For anyone who doesn't know, Eye for and Eye was an ability in the Ret talent tree before MoP. It read, "All magic attacks against you have a 40% chance to cause 30% of the damage taken back to the attacker as well."


    I'm thinking that they could put in a newer version that reads something along the lines of "All magic and physical attacks against you have a 40% chance to cause 30% of the damage taken back to the attacker as well and heals you for 3% of your total health".

    So what do you guys think about that? Would it be a good idea? If you think so I would ask that you send a message to Gc on twitter to see what he thinks about it.
    Last edited by nyc81991; 2013-01-23 at 02:01 AM.

  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk
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    I love that idea. Count my vote, but sadly I don't have a twitter. Link the thread to them when it fills with responses? I think Ret could be seriously helped by some of the old mechanics it had before, instead of being stripped of them in favor of other things. The spec needs more oomph.

    Edit: Even if they put some sort of ICD on it, like 2-3 seconds, which would be necessary. Otherwise we would be waaaaay too hard to kill.
    Last edited by Valedus; 2013-01-23 at 03:12 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    I love that idea. Count my vote, but sadly I don't have a twitter. Link the thread to them when it fills with responses? I think Ret could be seriously helped by some of the old mechanics it had before, instead of being stripped of them in favor of other things. The spec needs more oomph.

    Edit: Even if they put some sort of ICD on it, like 2-3 seconds, which would be necessary. Otherwise we would be waaaaay too hard to kill.
    Yeah I agree, There would need to be some kind of short Icd to prevent it from becoming Op. Even if it was 5 seconds it would still be enough to make people not want to attack you as much as they do now. But I think 2-3 seconds would be ideal.

    I really feel like this would add something unique to Ret but it would be in the way of simply giving us back an ability we essentially had but lost with MoP and the new talent system.
    Last edited by nyc81991; 2013-01-23 at 03:32 AM.

  4. #4
    brilliant idea love it.

    maybe 40% proc chance is abit much but thats what we have testing for :P

  5. #5
    Pit Lord
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    Not quite sure, sounds a bit OP with the 3% heal aswell.. As we're getting healing buffed in 5.2 with 25%, I dont think we need more healing. But the 40% chance to reflect 30% dmg sounds good, miss that talent.

  6. #6
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
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    They removed it for a reason. It won't stop Ret being below-average in PvP sadly.

  7. #7
    Sounds like 100% random dmg, which you can't control, imo a bad idea. (Plus would allow ret to kill lower lvling things just by AFKing near them, which is why blizzard removed thorns / ret aura)

  8. #8
    Fluffy Kitten Taurenburger's Avatar
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    I like it, maybe change the numbers around a bit. I think it's really fitting for a paladin, especially retribution.

  9. #9
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Sounds like 100% random dmg, which you can't control, imo a bad idea. (Plus would allow ret to kill lower lvling things just by AFKing near them, which is why blizzard removed thorns / ret aura)
    It might be damage you don't control, but it's damage that you don't have to do anything for either. It's a straight buff to any output while we're in combat because it's passive.

    As for the "can kill things with no effort" bit: anything that would grant experience (which is what they balance around, if I remember properly) would kill us before the damage from EfaE could kill them.

  10. #10
    Over 9000! Hyve's Avatar
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    I like the concept, but the numbers are off, way off.

    Having a 40% Chance to deal 30% of the damage back at you is not a fair, or fun mechanic. Having it as a passive would be something that means you become more powerful through no skill, or improvement of your own. I agree you need passive buffs, but a mechanic like this with these numbers would be lame and potentially overpowering.

    Having it at a 25% chance to reflect 20% of your damage, plus having a 3% HP heal would be much more friendly to your opponents, but also without making you far to over-reliant on RNG.

    For every four attacks, you should in theory have reflected one of them, meaning they've taken 20% of that damage, plus you got a heal. I think putting it in like that owuld be much more enjoyable, as I would hate it if I was low on health, and so was a rival paladin, and as I go to finish him off, I get it all blown back in my face. That isn't fun for your opponents, and it certainly isn't fun for you as a passive.

    Also, I wouldn't add the physical attacks component to it. Spells only. Melee attacks and ranged attacks hitting on you would make it useless in a matter of seconds, as the ICD would just be kept on a constant use.

  11. #11
    healing part sounds op but i have always loved the ability and it would be cool to see it back

  12. #12
    Over 9000! Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    It might be damage you don't control, but it's damage that you don't have to do anything for either. It's a straight buff to any output while we're in combat because it's passive.

    As for the "can kill things with no effort" bit: anything that would grant experience (which is what they balance around, if I remember properly) would kill us before the damage from EfaE could kill them.
    Passive improvements are not fun, and nor are an endless set of buttons to press. I think certain passive abilities that have low proc chances can be enjoyable, but at 40% you'll see it far to often, and there is no thought in it from the Paladin.

    I'd rather see it incorporated into another spell somehow, or somehow included into something you already do, rather then something that just happens by sheer mistake.

  13. #13
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    Passive improvements are not fun, and nor are an endless set of buttons to press. I think certain passive abilities that have low proc chances can be enjoyable, but at 40% you'll see it far to often, and there is no thought in it from the Paladin.

    I'd rather see it incorporated into another spell somehow, or somehow included into something you already do, rather then something that just happens by sheer mistake.
    I agree, and I think that's a far more likely reason it was removed in the first place.

    Actually, it would do well to be a buff placed on the target after casting Word of Glory. You're healing the damage dealt by an enemy, right? An eye for an eye: they hurt you/your ally, now they get to feel the same pain.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    It might be damage you don't control, but it's damage that you don't have to do anything for either. It's a straight buff to any output while we're in combat because it's passive.

    As for the "can kill things with no effort" bit: anything that would grant experience (which is what they balance around, if I remember properly) would kill us before the damage from EfaE could kill them.
    Plus it seems silly that another person can "kill themselves" just by dpsing a paladin, in addition this would (probably) create a whole another set of problems in pvp (such as dot ticks on paladin spell reflecting and breaking the caster out of cc and etc)

  15. #15
    the self heal would probably make it overpowered as a tank,

    but the rest i support, possibly make it a "aura" like devotion aura is at the moment,

    "costs 1-3 holypower, each point of holypower spent applies one stack of spell reflect which reflects 30% of the spell damg done back to the caster, effects raid and party members within 40 yards lasts 10 seconds CD 2 minutes"

    spells that are cast without you as the target can't be reflected as they wern't cast at "you" they were cast at the "floor" which prevents 1-shoting aoeing people in pvp it's an alternative to devotion aura and would share the CD so you can't chain them back to back it's either take 20% less damg OR reflect some of the damg, it could also have a cap of reflect determined by 30% of your max hp so as to not do to much damg to bosses in pve.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelodalix View Post
    What the fuck did you just say.

  16. #16
    Pandaren Monk Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Idea is nice but a bit too OP imo. Spell + physic reflection AND healing in one passive ?

    Would like to see the 4.0.6 Sacred shield passive back (with a new name and new visual effect, distinct from the actual talent)

    "Sacred When reduced below 30% health, paladins gain the Sacred Shield effect. The Sacred Shield absorbs X damage and increases healing received by 20%. Lasts 15 seconds. This effect cannot occur more than once every 30 seconds. Undispellable."

    Was nice to have some kind of security net before having to pop DS

  17. #17
    Not for nothing, but you're asking a bunch of ret paladins "How would you like it if we gave you free damage when you're being attacked, no strings attached? Would that be something you're interested in?" Do you really expect anyone to say "No, I would not want more damage and more reason for someone to attack someone else. I oppose that" ???
    Humans are the only species on the planet smart enough to be this stupid.

  18. #18
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karazee View Post
    Not for nothing, but you're asking a bunch of ret paladins "How would you like it if we gave you free damage when you're being attacked, no strings attached? Would that be something you're interested in?" Do you really expect anyone to say "No, I would not want more damage and more reason for someone to attack someone else. I oppose that" ???
    I oppose it.

  19. #19
    How about this:

    Hand of Retribution
    2min CD
    When cast on you or a friendly target, causes the recipient to have a 50% chance to reflect up to 2 spells back at the caster, within 10 seconds. If it is a CC, the duration is halved. If it is a damaging spell, it's damage is reduced by 50%. This does cause Forbearance on the target of the Hand.

    Numbers could use tweaking, would likely get involved in our 4th talent row (Hand of Purity and Clemency mainly). This is an idea off the top of my head, based on what I read here, how EfaE used to work, and me being awake for all of 25min.

    Note: I don't PvP at all. It's not my interest or fortay. But aside from the spec being called "Retribution", there is alot of what used to define Ret missing. This is not too far of a stretch when you consider Spell Reflect and Mass Spell Reflect on Warriors right now. Ours just won't be guaranteed which spell it catches.

    Edit: Reworded spell a bit.
    Last edited by ZeroEdgeir; 2013-01-23 at 04:03 PM.
    Games are not necessarily "easier" today. You are just a better player.
    It takes more now to impress many gamers than it did 2-5 years ago, because so much has already been seen and done.
    Many players expect to be wow'd with every release of a beloved franchise.
    These are generally NOT the fault of the developers, but the fault of many players over-hyping and/or setting expectations too high.

  20. #20
    An eye for an eye was a good PVP talent even so seeing the Tweets for GC seems he's serious about buffing Sustain Dmg but still they dont know how
    Edit: thinking of it , seems a burst Nerf will be flying arround us

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