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  1. #21
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by nctank View Post
    OP, As I said... don't use glyph of outbreak... it just sucks... its a waste of RP
    Don't waste army, use it when you need a cd... you don't get any benefit from using it before the fight... (A dps might, not you)


    If you need RP, horn of winter will give you that, pop before fight and spam it on CD

    Your best "aggro" move is rune strike, so use it more often... use it sooner... no point in using heart strike before rune strike if you have aggro problems... 1 rune strike will get you way ahead on threat...

    heart strike is the 7th in you "rotation", on mine is usually second...

    I always HoW before pull, then pull with outbreak for debuffs... then usually DS and runestrike right after...
    I will sure try that.

    In our raid group, we used to have a frost dk that was raiding with us. They would always have her pop army on the pull. Now that she's gone, I guess they assumed I should do the same. I'll explain that I shouldn't pop on pull any longer.

    Thanks again for the advice.

  2. #22
    Scarab Lord Atrea's Avatar
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    Remember that you gain damage reduction equal to your Dodge % + your Parry % while channeling Army of the Dead; this is a defensive cooldown for you as a tank, and as another poster mentioned, their damage scales with your vengeance, so if you go in dry (no vengeance), they aren't hitting very hard.

  3. #23
    The days of "hold on gais give me a few secs to get aggro" should be very much gone. If you're having problems with aggro, especially with all the buffs they've given to threat(didn't they increase it by like...500% or something silly?) then you're more than likely doing something wrong, and considering you're using that horrid outbreak glyph, that much is clear. Also read AotD again, it's not meant for you to use before the pull unless you're dps.

    You should probably look at one of those guide things somewhere.
    Waaaaah this guy was mean to me! Waaaaaaaaah!

    I'm mean because you're stupid.

  4. #24
    Our DK tank has threat problems.

    Sometimes he pulls the boss off our prot war by mistake...

  5. #25
    Are brewmasters WAY higher on threat? yeah. But you should still not notice 'issues' with any tank class. Glyph of Outbreak is awful.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by nctank View Post
    what part of him advising to "use it before pull" and I saying that "is a wasted CD" is hard to grasp.
    Most bad Blood DK's don't realize it is a defensive cooldown. Which is probably the case here.

  7. #27
    Do not use army at the start of a fight, especially if the boss has a cleave attack(use it to reduce damage or during a burn phase after timewarp/bloodlust has been because your ghouls will inherit the haste bonus, also Atrea is right your ghouls will hit less due to a lack of vengeance). Other than that, my blood dk has yet to experience any tankings problems, sitting with all lfr gear and some valor items. Remember, rune strike and dancing rune weapon are your primary threat generators.

  8. #28
    The Patient
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    I guess my problem stems from the Outbreak Glyph. Using the runic power on that instead of Rune Strike is probably the key.

    I will give that a try our next raid and see if I have any issues.

    Thanks again for all the advice.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragethorn View Post
    I guess my problem stems from the Outbreak Glyph. Using the runic power on that instead of Rune Strike is probably the key.

    I will give that a try our next raid and see if I have any issues.

    Thanks again for all the advice.
    I use the same glyph and think it is underrated, single target fights you'll be taking UB (aoe version of outbreak) anyways, from the first tier.

    The only proper glyphs are AMS and VB, everything else is situational. I like the Outbreak glyph for the reason of never having to lose a Death Strike to put up diseases.

    I know about Scarlet Fever and if you're pro enough to always have your diseases on the target, good for you. In any case you always got UB.

    Outbreak glyph for me is a 'oh shit' button for my diseases. I rarely use it in fights, but I like never having to worry about runes to do it.
    The dragons' flame sealed my fate. The world of the living can no longer comfort me.

  10. #30
    The glyph of outbreak is hurting you quite a bit. As far as precasting army it depends on the fight and the situation. If it is a tank damage fight it is better to save it for a cooldown, but if it's a dps check fight and you know that lust will be used on the pull it is fine to use. They do not use a snapshot of your stats- they update as your stats change. This means as long as you're the tank pulling they will update to your vengeance quickly and benefit from the lust.

    In my raid group I have a fury warrior that likes to pop everything on the pull. This is what I do to keep threat off of him- deathgrip on the pull (for the fixate), deathstrike twice, heartstrike, dancing rune weapon, heartstrike (to give the drw time to get into place), outbreak (double diseases), ERW, deathstrike twice. At that point you have solid initial threat, a huge bloodshield, 2 sets of diseases rolling, 2 blood runes and a full rp bar to start your "rotation", and taunt is still available in case something goes wrong.

  11. #31
    I only seem to have issues with prot paladins who take the talent divine purpose. Nothing like seeing a prot paladin double your tps and there's not much you can do about him winning the lottery as he hits the boss with 4 shield slams. Other than that I've never had a lot of problems with threat, sometimes I pull off of others just trying to keep my blood shield up.

  12. #32
    I have threat issues..........









    My threat is at least 20 times higher than the next person, making it a totally redundant mechanic.....

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 01:01 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by nctank View Post
    and why glyph of outbreak? I've seen no reason for it yet... you could be using runic power on Rune Strike instead of outbreak...
    for fight i might need outbreak on less that 1 minute i prefer to use Unholy blight in place of Roiling Blood to give me another source for debuffs

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-04 at 06:54 PM ----------



    Really? that's smart... let's waste 1 of our defensive cds before a fight...

    About as smart as using unholy blight every 1.5 minutes versus blood boil on demand to do the same job........


    Please tell me just one reason why you would use unholy blight rather than rolling blood?

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by doodarday123 View Post
    I have threat issues..........
    About as smart as using unholy blight every 1.5 minutes versus blood boil on demand to do the same job........
    Please tell me just one reason why you would use unholy blight rather than rolling blood?
    Should be obvious no? i'll explain... you dont need rolling blood to refresh debuffs...
    on most single target fights neither matters... you most times you apply once, refresh it here and there and thats it...

    rolling blood only spreads debuffs doesn't applies new ones when u need new ones... so UB gives a second way to apply debuffs...

    rolling blood is awesome and so is Unholy blight what I was saying is that is smart to know your tools and know the fights. Plus switching between tools depending on situations...

    If the OP sees a need for a outbreak with no CD, which I don't see, maybe taking UB would help him... I mostly use RB but i like UB on some fights like elegon... tbh you can do weel with both... its more a QoL matter sometimes


    there are times when u can use 2 cds to apply debuffs there are other where spreading them for free preferable...

    Don't just stick with 1 as if it was the only thing you had in your arsenal...

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 12:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Boneshatter View Post
    As far as precasting army it depends on the fight and the situation. If it is a tank damage fight it is better to save it for a cooldown, but if it's a dps check fight and you know that lust will be used on the pull it is fine to use. They do not use a snapshot of your stats- they update as your stats change. This means as long as you're the tank pulling they will update to your vengeance quickly and benefit from the lust.
    precasting is always a bad idea in my oppinion... first is a cooldown and u should use all you cooldowns even if its not a tank damage fight... less heals on you more available to raid... Everyone, tank, heals and dps should always minimize damage taken. thats a good raiding principle.

    As a dps cd, it benefits from vengeance, hero and other CDs, so its also a dps loss to use it before pull

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 12:36 PM ----------

    i remember my fist kill on bladelord, other tank was dead had a few stacks of the debuff already and most cds were down...
    with Bone Shield (20% reduction) and AoD (30% reduction) and a few DS managed to survive till phase 2!
    Last edited by nctank; 2013-02-05 at 12:37 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Larwood View Post
    Our DK tank has threat problems.

    Sometimes he pulls the boss off our prot war by mistake...
    this would be the only argo problem i have ever had.

    that and agro FROM said prot warrior when i'm doing 2x his dps

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    Remember that you gain damage reduction equal to your Dodge % + your Parry % while channeling Army of the Dead; this is a defensive cooldown for you as a tank, and as another poster mentioned, their damage scales with your vengeance, so if you go in dry (no vengeance), they aren't hitting very hard.
    Army of the Dead scales with your vengeance constantly matching your attack power, so it actually can be beneficial for many fights where your attack power ramps up almost immediately to use army of the dead right before you pull.

    Also, threat problems as a Death Knight can generally be avoided by several tips that I can give you from personal experience with tanking when DPS/OTs are pushing for parses, speed kills, etc.

    1) Always open with a Potion of Mogu Power pre-pot to avoid needing a ramp up of Vengeance for sufficient threat.
    2) For intense threat fights, my suggested opener would be as follows: [Outbreak] -> [2x Death Strike] -> [Heart Strike] -> Dancing Rune Weapon -> [Empower Rune Weapon] -> [2x Death Strike] -> [Heart Strike] -> [Rune Strike] -> Normal Rotation. The best time in between that rotation to blanket taunt would also be right before your dancing rune weapon. Once you reach the point in which you are rune striking the chances of being pulled off of is very minimal.
    3) Make sure that your stat priorities are properly set up. It is a common misconception among DKs that following mastery you seek dodge/parry. You should be actually going for haste which will give you a threat boost too.

    Overall though, if you have issues I would recommend checking out the ElitistJerks Blood DK guide because it actually has a lot of useful information when it comes to maximizing Blood Death Knight damage.

  16. #36
    Stood in the Fire Augh's Avatar
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    With the term "rotation" being bandied around I kinda have to wonder if the problem is yeah basic ability use/understanding, which several people have chimed in on for you. Personally haven't even used a threat meter since coming back since it's pretty much completely academic vs DPS with current threat buffs, and you probably have a decent feel for co-tank interactions by now(?)

    That said, if your threat issues are this severe, you could do far worse than considering upgrading that axe =Q

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaosadvokit View Post
    Most bad Blood DK's don't realize it is a defensive cooldown. Which is probably the case here.
    I use it on pull but that is only on LFR where I do my raiding atm. In the new raid I will probably save it as the fights will give a lot more wipes im guessing so I would want to use it as any other defensive CD rather than a dps boost at the start of a fight.

    As for threat, I don't normally have issues if I am unlucky with some RNG I might lose a mob for a moment but other than those extreme cases i'm usually monstering along.

  18. #38
    Warchief Mehman's Avatar
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    The only problem I have with threat is if a fury warrior in 10+ ilvls higher than me decides the milisecond I Outbreak is the best time to burst. Other than that I have no problems with threat at all.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Cops View Post
    3) Make sure that your stat priorities are properly set up. It is a common misconception among DKs that following mastery you seek dodge/parry. You should be actually going for haste which will give you a threat boost too.
    All of my what.
    I suppose if you're talking about purely from a dps standpoint Haste works... that depends on the fight though. If there's enough magic damage to get a large amount of use from AMS then you'll be GCD capped anyways, and crit is actually better for dps. (which is why we go for crit when soloing Ultraxion)

    Crit is actually nearly equal with Haste anyways. Only reason Haste is preferred is because it gives a teeny tiny little survivability boost as well, so why not?
    Last edited by Kiqjaq; 2013-02-06 at 12:11 PM.

  20. #40
    When people in groups don't give me time to get in there and establish aggro, that can be a problem for me when they're all over the place.
    I choose the glyph(s) that help with threat.

    I think Rune management is also what messes me up.

    At lower levels the process feels very painful to me.

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