Page 15 of 17 FirstFirst ...
5
13
14
15
16
17
LastLast
  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    The poor pay plenty in terms of sales tax, property tax, and payroll tax.
    I'd just like to point out that the Middle-Class (or wealthy, according to Obama's odd sense of math) also pay those taxes. They also pay more in Federal Income Taxes.

    I can assure you that no matter how you twist and turn it. The answer will ALWAYS be that the more money you make the more taxes you pay.

  2. #282
    Just finished preparing my taxes last night, and I owed (no joke) $.43 of tax. Rounded that down to zero, and for the first time in my adult life, I won the game. I didn't give the government an interest free loan for a year, and they wound up picking up my tab, however small it may be.

  3. #283
    Warchief
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,143
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    For those saying you pay more as you make more trying claiming single and 1 all year making less then 30,000 in 2012 being told I owe state taxes of 75$...only getting 22$ back from Federal and owe HR Block 107$.

    ^ If you want to know why some people start to fucking resent the US government that is why
    Would you feel better if you got back a $100 return from state and a $2000 return from Federal?

    ^ If you answer yes, then you don't understand how taxes work. The amount of taxes you pay per year is, in the end, a set number, irrespective of your deductions.

    Example, if I make $60,000 per year then I owe the Federal Government $10000 in income tax and the State $1000 in income tax. Now, depending on how my exemptions are set, I could pay $1000 per month to the Feds and $100 per month to the state, paying $12k and $1.2k respectively, and get a tax return of $2k and $200. Yay, free money, right? Everyone loves a tax return!

    Except it's not free money, all you did was loan the government $2200 over the course of the year, for free.

    If you aren't getting a tax return, that means you are doing it right.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Porcell View Post
    If you aren't getting a tax return, that means you are doing it right.
    But what if you intentionally want to give them an interest free loan?

  5. #285
    Brewmaster Shon237's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Funkytown
    Posts
    1,475
    [QUOTE=Endus;20109996]1> Wealthy people don't work any harder than anyone else.QUOTE]


    It kills me poeople who think the wealthy work harder than the average person who may not be making a ton of money but goes to work everyday, especially lets say manual labor and break their butts everyday to make a living for them and their family.

    Too many people have this grandious idea that one day they will become rich so if you keep taxes down for the rich you are really keeping taxes down for yourself because again you are dillusional that you will be wealthy one day. Hey success stories do happen but too many think its going to be them. Like this forum for people who fight to keep rich people's taxes down. So is this forum actually a place where alot of rich people come to voice their opinions? No. I think its more of the average joe working for a living who again have this dream that this will bet them some day so they have to fight for those low taxes.

    Last thing about the wealthy work harder that's is nonsense is yes I'm sure they work crazy hours and their hard work got them to where they are today but when you finally become financially succesful your money makes you money. Again I'm talking about a pretty nice salary or earning of say a million dollars a year you really could live comfortable and have money left over that you can invest and live off just interests and investments. So yeah did Bill Gates or Warren Buffet work hard? Sure, but I think they could retire now or a long time ago and have the money they made and live off just that.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadmedic View Post
    the more you make the more the government takes, these are called "tax brackets" also you guys might have claimed different things on your w2, you could have claimed 1 for your self meaning the goverment will take less out of your check every week but you might end up having to pay in at the end of the year, he might have claimed 0 meaning alot taken out, but the biggest refund possible next year.
    That's exactly what I do. I claim 0 and have never had a tax refund of less then $1000.
    Cooler Master HAF X : Intel Core i7 2600K @ 4.7GHz : Corsair A70 cooler : 8GB DDR3 1600MHz Corsair Vengeance LP : ASUS P8Z68 V-PRO/Gen3 : EVGA GTX GTX 670 FTW SIG2

  7. #287
    Gotta keep working ourselves to the bone, executives and corporations are relying on our hard work to fill their pockets with cash.


  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Shon237 View Post
    So yeah did Bill Gates or Warren Buffet work hard? Sure, but I think they could retire now or a long time ago and have the money they made and live off just that.
    Kinda off topic, kinda not. But funny you mention them as both of them were wealthy but neither of them were truly self made men by any stretch of the imagination. Sure, they managed to turn the silver spoons in their mouths that they were born with into platinum, but they weren't self made men.

    Bill Gates's father was a successful lawyer and his mother was on the board of directors for both First Interstate BancSystem and the United Way. His grandfather was a national bank president. Literally a millionaire from birth.

    Warren Buffer's father was a US State Representative for four terms.

    Both men had a better start in life than 95% of us will ever have at the end of our lives even if we busted our asses night and day, working ourselves to the bone.

    Neither of them were examples of self made men but of the Money begets Money situation we currently have and counter examples of the American dream and the current regressive tax structure that is ripe with cheats at the upper brackets.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by larrakeyah View Post
    "Hard times", no such thing. There's work for everyone but it takes some effort. The "poor" realise it's much better to resort to extortion. The poor are poor because they want to, expect no pity from me, i evade as much as i can.
    Always the victims fault, I know lots of people that are poor due to no choice of there own just getting hit with the curve balls in life that will screw you for life. Explain to me how it is the victims fault for getting a chronic disease that treatments for cost a fortune and those treatments will drive you straight to the poor house. Explain how that is the victims fault or how they wanted to be severely disabled by diseases such as ALS, MS or other horrible diseases that have no cure and can strike ANYONE.

    This me first and screw everyone else mentality that goes hand in hand with the fascism that is starting to regain strongholds in Europe again is shocking. And Europe is in many places repeating the disasters of the 1930s just replace jews with muslims and it is the same thing going on right now as took place in the 1st half of the 1930s in Europe.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 07:19 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Gotta keep working ourselves to the bone, executives and corporations are relying on our hard work to fill their pockets with cash.


    productivity is up a LOT in the last 30 years but wages for the bottom 99% have flatlined or declined in the same time.

  10. #290
    Brewmaster Shon237's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Funkytown
    Posts
    1,475
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Kinda off topic, kinda not. But funny you mention them as both of them were wealthy but neither of them were truly self made men by any stretch of the imagination. Sure, they managed to turn the silver spoons in their mouths that they were born with into platinum, but they weren't self made men.

    Bill Gates's father was a successful lawyer and his mother was on the board of directors for both First Interstate BancSystem and the United Way. His grandfather was a national bank president. Literally a millionaire from birth.

    Warren Buffer's father was a US State Representative for four terms.

    Both men had a better start in life than 95% of us will ever have at the end of our lives even if we busted our asses night and day, working ourselves to the bone.

    Neither of them were examples of self made men but of the Money begets Money situation we currently have and counter examples of the American dream and the current regressive tax structure that is ripe with cheats at the upper brackets.
    Yes, you are exactly right. Just like when Paul Ryan at the Republican Convention was boasting how he worked at fast foods his high school years and became successul. His grandpa and uncles I believe are very successful and had alot oppurtunites afforded to him that many do no living in poor conditions. Like the saying goes "another well to do person born on 2nd base thinking he hit a double".

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Shon237 View Post
    Yes, you are exactly right. Just like when Paul Ryan at the Republican Convention was boasting how he worked at fast foods his high school years and became successul. His grandpa and uncles I believe are very successful and had alot oppurtunites afforded to him that many do no living in poor conditions. Like the saying goes "another well to do person born on 2nd base thinking he hit a double".
    Or when they get help and are successful yet deny getting said help.

    Case in point, Craig T Nelson declaring on national televisions "I've been on foodstamps and welfare, did anyone help me out? No."

    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  12. #292
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    18,005
    Quote Originally Posted by Twotonsteak View Post
    1. All military basis on foreign soil should be closed. The US Military was designed to secure and protect our borders, not the borders of another nation half-way around the world.
    2. Getting rid of this ponzi scheme called Social Security would also be nice. (I actually checked. The way Social Security is currently handled is almost exactly how a Ponzi Scheme is run.)
    3. Secure our boarders. (I'd rather close them until we get "our house" in order, but I'm not unwilling to compromise.)
    4. Fully investigate our welfare system for fraud. (Again I'd rather ditch the system totally, but I'll compromise.)
    5. Shut down FEMA. It's underfunded and has been bailed out several times already.
    6. Remove all Federal influence from the Post Office and Amtrak.
    7. Stop giving aid to other countries until we, you know, can actually sustain our own spending.

    Every one of the above is a waste of money. In some cases (FEMA, Amtrak) the system is poorly run and totally insolvent and has been for a long time. In others (foreign military bases) the purpose is not served. Still others (Social Security) are out-right illegal based on our laws.

    Every one of those suggestions would save a LOT of money.
    Only your first two suggestions would save a lot of money.

    The military bases one I disagree with. There's a very good reason for the US to have military presence around the world that is good for the US, and for the world.

    The social security one I also disagree with, but it doesn't matter because Congress will NEVER vote to get rid of Social Security, unless we're about to default on loans without it. Reforming social security by raising the retirement age, or with means testing is a bit more reasonable and far more likely.

    Having immigrants in the US to do the types of labor intensive jobs most Americans don't want to do is a net positive on our economy, not a net drain, especially when many of the illegals are paying taxes.

    Sure you can investigate welfare for fraud. You might find a couple million in there. Chump change.

    FEMA serves an important purpose in our government. If you don't believe that, look at how much people cry out for FEMA aid after any disaster.

    The Postal Service has been operating just fine with federal supervision, except for the one stupid decision under Bush Jr. to force them to accrue pension liabilities for all their employees immediately. They'll be fine again when that's done. AmTrak does appear to be pretty messed up to me, but I don't think the solution to that is to defederalize it. It's to install new management, do a comprehensive study to determine where lines would be most used, and improve the way it's run.

    The aid to other countries is a pretty small part of our budget and helps secure our interests abroad. Foreign policy needs both carrots and a a stick. The military is the stick, foreign aid is the carrot.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 07:26 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Twotonsteak View Post
    I'd just like to point out that the Middle-Class (or wealthy, according to Obama's odd sense of math) also pay those taxes. They also pay more in Federal Income Taxes.

    I can assure you that no matter how you twist and turn it. The answer will ALWAYS be that the more money you make the more taxes you pay.
    I never suggested that the wealthy didn't pay those taxes. Those taxes are just a much higher portion of a poor person's disposable income than they are for a wealthy person.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 07:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Just finished preparing my taxes last night, and I owed (no joke) $.43 of tax. Rounded that down to zero, and for the first time in my adult life, I won the game. I didn't give the government an interest free loan for a year, and they wound up picking up my tab, however small it may be.
    That's kinda awesome. Best possible result. I'm probably going to owe them around $80 as usual.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 07:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Kinda off topic, kinda not. But funny you mention them as both of them were wealthy but neither of them were truly self made men by any stretch of the imagination. Sure, they managed to turn the silver spoons in their mouths that they were born with into platinum, but they weren't self made men.

    Bill Gates's father was a successful lawyer and his mother was on the board of directors for both First Interstate BancSystem and the United Way. His grandfather was a national bank president. Literally a millionaire from birth.

    Warren Buffer's father was a US State Representative for four terms.

    Both men had a better start in life than 95% of us will ever have at the end of our lives even if we busted our asses night and day, working ourselves to the bone.

    Neither of them were examples of self made men but of the Money begets Money situation we currently have and counter examples of the American dream and the current regressive tax structure that is ripe with cheats at the upper brackets.
    My grandfather is a self-made man. He was born to a poor family in a poor neighborhood with 5 siblings, an absentee father, and a drunkard mother. He went on to graduate high school, which was not that common in his neighborhood, joined the Navy, fought in the Korean War, and went to college on the GI Bill. Got himself a job in chemical sales, eventually opened up his own chemical company and retired with a few million dollars, which he was able to invest well.

    He worked his ass off to get where he did, but even he will tell you that he didn't get there without a lot of luck.

    I consider myself extremely lucky to have been brought up by good parents who themselves had a middle class/upper middle class upbringing. I've benefited in my own knowledge/education from their knowledge/education. I think it was a lot easier to learn when I had a college educated father who wasn't afraid to answer any of my questions and help me work through the answers. I've also benefited by having a mother who knows business and has taught me how to present myself in the business community. She continues to advise me well to this day.
    Last edited by Reeve; 2013-02-05 at 07:36 PM.
    Well 1, 2, 3, take my hand and come with me
    Because you look so fine
    And I really wanna make you mine

  13. #293
    Whenever I think of the "self made" Donald Trump I get a good chuckle...

  14. #294
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Iowa - Franconia
    Posts
    15,727
    Quote Originally Posted by Vuljatar View Post
    This, basically.

    The government is an endlessly hungry black hole of money. They steal from everyone, every single one of your dollars is taxed when you earn it, when you save it, when you spend it, when you give it away, and even when you die. They steal a higher percentage from more successful people because they know that idiots will say things like "Nobody needs as much money as those people make!", without a thought for the concept that they earned it, so it is theirs or the fact that the government doesn't need that money either. And in spite of all of that, the government STILL has to print more fiat currency every single year (further devaluing the money in our pockets) to keep up with it's appalling spending.

    The level of waste is truly unbelievable, between rampant military spending in wars that don't benefit U.S. citizens in any way, bailouts to keep failed companies alive and prevent new ones from rising, subsidies to select businesses (the ones that own enough of the politicians) without any possible justification, and free money for people too lazy to work. And yet the space program--something of critical importance to the future of the entire human race--is woefully underfunded.

    We could cut the national budget in half and nothing of value would be lost.
    1. Taxes aren't stolen from you. They are your contribution to the infrastructure of the country. The USA is, against it's citizen's belief even rather a tax paradise, compared to other countries. And good luck finding a country that gives you all things you benefit from for free.. be prepared to crawl through dirt piles the moment you leave the house. Because all the roads, all the sidewalks are built with what? Oh yeah... Tax money... Just to start somewhere..

    2. military spending is insane... on that I agree..

    3. bailouts.. No, they were just fine... These bailouts have not been given to provide those companies, but to protect US the people from the crash of the effected companies. All bailouts have been bound to companies where there would have been a huge loss of jobs, or direct loss of money the people had sitting in those companies. The government saved our ass with bailing them out.

    4. The countries unemployment rate is at right around 8%... That is nowhere near any number that would indicate that there's a waste of money on people who don't want to work. That statement is a bullshit statement which originates from right wing radicals like Limbaugh and consorts. The sort of people that do more harm and damage to the country than anyone else. Following their hate speeches is rather incredibly stupid, because even most republican politicians (who usually have a problem with grasping the principle of the term society stems from social) won't agree with them.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Taxes aren't stolen from you.
    Depending on your interpretation of the Constitution, some people believe wages were never intended to be taxed.

  16. #296
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    18,005
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Depending on your interpretation of the Constitution, some people believe wages were never intended to be taxed.
    Until we amended the constitution to make sure they were. 16th!
    Well 1, 2, 3, take my hand and come with me
    Because you look so fine
    And I really wanna make you mine

  17. #297
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Iowa - Franconia
    Posts
    15,727
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    The military bases one I disagree with. There's a very good reason for the US to have military presence around the world that is good for the US, and for the world
    Reeve, I would leave that decision more to the countries in question tho.
    I know that the US Military presence around the globe is a huge part of the rather bad reputation. There are bases that don't make no sense anymore, on any aspect.
    Germany does not need multiple US Air Bases, nor is there a need to have a permanent troop size of 74.000 US Troops stationed there. I mean, picture the expenses to maintain those. All the people and equipment aren't exactly cheap.
    5000 would do the job just fine, and one air base for Nato purposes is sufficient. The European countries, including Germany itself do have enough military strength and facilities to protect their borders just fine, and in case of any conflict, troops can easily be moved to Germany. The USA has it's dedicated area at Germany's biggest Airport, for their military use, \and the entire Airport is set to be turned into a military airbase within hours. Arrangements are long in place ever since the cold war.

  18. #298
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    18,005
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Reeve, I would leave that decision more to the countries in question tho.
    I know that the US Military presence around the globe is a huge part of the rather bad reputation. There are bases that don't make no sense anymore, on any aspect.
    Germany does not need multiple US Air Bases, nor is there a need to have a permanent troop size of 74.000 US Troops stationed there. I mean, picture the expenses to maintain those. All the people and equipment aren't exactly cheap.
    5000 would do the job just fine, and one air base for Nato purposes is sufficient. The European countries, including Germany itself do have enough military strength and facilities to protect their borders just fine, and in case of any conflict, troops can easily be moved to Germany. The USA has it's dedicated area at Germany's biggest Airport, for their military use, \and the entire Airport is set to be turned into a military airbase within hours. Arrangements are long in place ever since the cold war.
    Absolutely the countries involved should have a say, and they do. We aren't in military bases in those countries against the will of the people in those countries, with the exception of those places we recently invaded. As for Germany, I think we're there simply as a jumping off point for other conflicts. I'm pretty sure we aren't there strategically in case the Russians decide to invade again. Either way, I'd rather leave the decisions on where to keep our bases to the Pentagon, who has a much better grasp of the strategic landscape than I do.
    Well 1, 2, 3, take my hand and come with me
    Because you look so fine
    And I really wanna make you mine

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Until we amended the constitution to make sure they were. 16th!
    I was referring to the 16th amendment. Income and wages haven't always been the same thing, and (this is borderline conspiracy theory, so tread lightly) some people feel that the IRS doesn't have the authority to tax wages (money earned while in the employ of another person) but only income (money earned as a profit from a business.)

  20. #300
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Iowa - Franconia
    Posts
    15,727
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Depending on your interpretation of the Constitution, some people believe wages were never intended to be taxed.
    I am sorry, those are dreamers.. The constitution doesn't provide any way how a country can function without taxes?
    The people with such believe need to look at the times applicable for the constitution.. At that time "taxes" meant, that everyone had to surrender a percentage of their harvest etc. to the crown. And there was usually little return, other than being allowed to live on the Kings land. Land owners been the aristocrats. Not the common man. That's why some things are in the constitution.
    The need to use wealth from all citizen accordingly to create a country, and to build an infrastructure still exists in free countries as well.
    No one would give away any money at all, if it was based on free will. A country cannot be built from donations. Not gonna happen.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •