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  1. #1

    Anyone explain me the UH sudden hype?

    Been playing PVP Frost like pretty much everyone else.
    Been frustrated of low survavibility to burst in arena like everyone else.
    And like everyone else, I ponder whether the announced buffs to UH might be a better option to pvp with my DK in 5.2

    Now I don't understand how UH provides better heals/survavibility than Frost? I get the minor differences like cost lowered in Coil and DS spam. But I fail to understand how switching to UH might address the top concerns of the arena DK. It seems its a different way to do the damage than Frost but does not significantly let me address the major flaws of the spec in arena.

    Thanks guys for your input!

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire
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    For me atleast it reminds me of a time when pvp was more about options and not about who brings the most burst in the shortest amount of time combined with cc. A well played UH used to be a thing of beauty the slow (constant) rampup until you had the enemy where you wanted and could close the deal.

    Not sure UH will be much better for 5.2 pvp but i want to keep my hopes high.

  3. #3
    Elemental Lord Hyve's Avatar
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    As far as I am aware, the main reason is because Unholy is being buffed to ensure it is viable again in both PvE & PvP. Naturally, Unholy is quite good in PvP, and it gives us an option on what to play, rather then being restricted to Frost.

    Sadly, I can't offer more then that. I've not played Arena on my Death Knight.

  4. #4
    Pandaren Monk crackleslap's Avatar
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    Everyone digs the underdog spec. Always!

  5. #5
    • Cheaper Death Coil heals that heal for more.
    • More flexibility with runes for Chains of Ice for kiting, Icy Touch for dispelling, Necrotic Strike. With 5.2 I doubt I will ever use Festering Strike again due to Icy Touch working with Reaping.
    • With Chilblains you will have a slow+dispel+death rune for the price of a single frost rune. That's really nice!
    • Damage keeps ticking in the form of diseases/Soul Reaper/Death Coil/Gargoyle when being kited. Also if you are playing somewhat defensive you don't lose all your pressure.
    • Pet stun/charge for extra peeling.
    • No need to use an extra GCD when you want to Sacrifice your pet.
    • Unholy can sit in Blood Presence the whole game, without losing too much damage. (Frost loses alot of rune regen from more expensive Frost Strikes.)
    Last edited by yehyehyehyeh; 2013-02-05 at 09:09 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by yehyehyehyeh View Post
    • Cheaper Death Coil heals that heal for more.
    • More flexibility with runes for Chains of Ice for kiting, Icy Touch for dispelling, Necrotic Strike. With 5.2 I doubt I will ever use Festering Strike again due to Icy Touch working with Reaping.
    • With Chilblains you will have a slow+dispel+death rune for the price of a single frost rune. That's really nice!
    • Damage keeps ticking in the form of diseases/Soul Reaper/Death Coil/Gargoyle when being kited. Also if you are playing somewhat defensive you don't lose all your pressure.
    • Pet stun/charge for extra peeling.
    • No need to use an extra GCD when you want to Sacrifice your pet.
    • Unholy can sit in Blood Presence the whole game, without losing too much damage. (Frost loses alot of rune regen from more expensive Frost Strikes.)
    Nice post, thanks for this.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelleas View Post
    Been playing PVP Frost like pretty much everyone else.
    Been frustrated of low survavibility to burst in arena like everyone else.
    And like everyone else, I ponder whether the announced buffs to UH might be a better option to pvp with my DK in 5.2

    Now I don't understand how UH provides better heals/survavibility than Frost? I get the minor differences like cost lowered in Coil and DS spam. But I fail to understand how switching to UH might address the top concerns of the arena DK. It seems its a different way to do the damage than Frost but does not significantly let me address the major flaws of the spec in arena.

    Thanks guys for your input!
    First off, Unholy is just great fun. So it deserves some hype.

    Second off: With Unholy's mastery, Death Siphon and Death Coil simply hit harder. That means they'll heal for lots more. Since Death Coil is also lots cheaper for Unholy to cast, that should be a give-away.

    Now; with 5.2, Unholy is getting a huge buff in Plague Strike. At least; I understood it was going to apply both Blood Plague and Frost Fever. (Edit: That information may very well be outdated. If so, disregard the following) This grants you an additional Festering Strike early on, both of which will recharge as Death Runes (Which can be used for Death Siphon for that delicious healing). Furthermore, Death Siphon will heal for 150% of the damage dealt.

    Unholy usually has a higher movement speed because you really want to be in Unholy Presence. With Unholy, you can put up some additional pressure in the form of a Gargoyle, which is handy. Your Ghoul/Gheist has a stun and a charge, which is also nice for additional pressure.

    Basically: Unholy brings more control and utility. Frost was the clear winner due to its burst damage, but if Unholy can be competitive in that respect, the additional utility might just weigh heavier.

    Personally, I prefer Unholy over Frost. I just don't feel Frost; it feels clunky, even though it's absolutely devastating. But Unholy just seems to lack that oomph that Frost does bring. Maybe if Unholy's single target consistent damage gets upped a bit, it'll gain some popularity. But don't underestimate the spec as it is at the moment; a well played Unholy can bring so much more.

  8. #8
    I always find unholy to scale rly well the bether the gear gets in a expansion, pve and pvp wise.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mefarian View Post
    I always find unholy to scale rly well the bether the gear gets in a expansion, pve and pvp wise.
    Actually the opposite is true most of the time. Remember how in Cataclysm they had to keep buffing Unholy Might (+10% str) to allow unholy to stay somewhat competitive? The reason is very simple. Unholy scales bad with weapon damage. In PvE you use lots of Scourge Strike/ Festering Strike and those scale with weapon damage so in PvE it's not as bad. But in PvP you use Necrotic Strike/Blood Boil/Icy Touch alot, and those don't scale at all with weapon damage.

    For example if I would replace my T1 wpn with the T2 weapon, my Death Coil/Icy Touch/Diseases/Blood Boil wouldn't get any noticable increase in damage (except the increase from more PvP power) because they will only benefit from the small extra amount of strength on the T2 wpn compared to the T1 wpn.

  10. #10
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yehyehyehyeh View Post
    • Cheaper Death Coil heals that heal for more.
    Is it? As far as I was aware unholy has no death coil cost reduction, are they really cheaper?... They will likely heal for more due to the shadow damage mastery though o.O
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    Is it? As far as I was aware unholy has no death coil cost reduction, are they really cheaper?... They will likely heal for more due to the shadow damage mastery though o.O
    Death Coil costs 32 RP as unholy. Does it cost the same as frost?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Death Coil costs 32 RP as unholy. Does it cost the same as frost?
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=49530

    Sudden Doom also reduces the RP cost of Death Coil by 20% (8 RP). So it is not related to Unholy Presence.

  13. #13
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yehyehyehyeh View Post
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=49530

    Sudden Doom also reduces the RP cost of Death Coil by 20% (8 RP). So it is not related to Unholy Presence.
    Winner - cant believe I never realised that - damn these new talent trees!
    Last edited by vmagik; 2013-02-05 at 01:44 PM.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    Winner - cant believe I never realised that - damn these new talent trees!
    it also means that an Unholy Death Knight can use Frost Presence more or less fine. He will trade 20% attack/rune speed and movement speed for 20% more RP and 20% cc reduction. Which is in my opinion not a bad trade off.

    The 20% attack speed will mean less Sudden Death procs though. So I'm not sure how much you actually lose out. But the 20% cc time reduction is really nice.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by yehyehyehyeh View Post
    it also means that an Unholy Death Knight can use Frost Presence more or less fine. He will trade 20% attack/rune speed and movement speed for 20% more RP and 20% cc reduction. Which is in my opinion not a bad trade off.

    The 20% attack speed will mean less Sudden Death procs though. So I'm not sure how much you actually lose out. But the 20% cc time reduction is really nice.
    Sudden Death procs aren't as relevant in PvP since you'll be jumping around a lot. High mobility means you're losing white hits anyway.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by yehyehyehyeh View Post
    Actually the opposite is true most of the time. Remember how in Cataclysm they had to keep buffing Unholy Might (+10% str) to allow unholy to stay somewhat competitive? The reason is very simple. Unholy scales bad with weapon damage. In PvE you use lots of Scourge Strike/ Festering Strike and those scale with weapon damage so in PvE it's not as bad. But in PvP you use Necrotic Strike/Blood Boil/Icy Touch alot, and those don't scale at all with weapon damage.

    For example if I would replace my T1 wpn with the T2 weapon, my Death Coil/Icy Touch/Diseases/Blood Boil wouldn't get any noticable increase in damage (except the increase from more PvP power) because they will only benefit from the small extra amount of strength on the T2 wpn compared to the T1 wpn.
    I'm not sure where your information comes from, but Necrotic Strike for example deals 150% Weapon Damage (+X).

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Azari View Post
    I'm not sure where your information comes from, but Necrotic Strike for example deals 150% Weapon Damage (+X).
    Well, you don't use Necrotic Strike for the damage it does but for the healing absorb. If you would be interested in damage than use Scourge Strike for your Death Runes.

    You use Necrotic Strike for the healing absorb, and that healing absorb only scales with attack power (and thus not with weapon damage).

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by yehyehyehyeh View Post
    Well, you don't use Necrotic Strike for the damage it does but for the healing absorb. If you would be interested in damage than use Scourge Strike for your Death Runes.

    You use Necrotic Strike for the healing absorb, and that healing absorb only scales with attack power (and thus not with weapon damage).
    You can't completely ignore the damage scourge strike does. Even if its not the main use, it still does the damage.

  19. #19
    I've always been the fan of using scourge strike or necrotic strike based on the situation. For instance, killing a rogue use scourge strike. Its unlikely he will heal much so the absorb will be mostly wasted. Killing a shadow priest? Spam that shit so his self healing is wasted.

    Alot of the unholy hype is also due to the fact that unholy has alot more control over its damage when compared to frost. Frost relies on good procs and reasonably high uptime to get kills. Unholy with pet and good damage dots make for high uptime. Better target swapping than unholy has ever had and the removal of our cooldown rampup is just icing on the cake.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by yehyehyehyeh View Post
    • Cheaper Death Coil heals that heal for more.
    • More flexibility with runes for Chains of Ice for kiting, Icy Touch for dispelling, Necrotic Strike. With 5.2 I doubt I will ever use Festering Strike again due to Icy Touch working with Reaping.
    • With Chilblains you will have a slow+dispel+death rune for the price of a single frost rune. That's really nice!
    • Damage keeps ticking in the form of diseases/Soul Reaper/Death Coil/Gargoyle when being kited. Also if you are playing somewhat defensive you don't lose all your pressure.
    • Pet stun/charge for extra peeling.
    • No need to use an extra GCD when you want to Sacrifice your pet.
    • Unholy can sit in Blood Presence the whole game, without losing too much damage. (Frost loses alot of rune regen from more expensive Frost Strikes.)
    Sorry not so experienced with unholy, but what about blood runes? Just blood boil?

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