Changes that need to happen to make MM Playable

[Beoren]

The problem with MM (and BM) that its dmg is Physical that make our scaling bad (usually strong on the first tier weak at the later ones, this is not the case in mop tho). to fix it i'd give MM a spell like Colossus Smash, maybe higher duration and higher cd like 12sec duration 30sec cd. but b4 that they must make some of our abilities passive procs like Dire Beast.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

The problem with MM (and BM) that its dmg is Physical that make our scaling bad (usually strong on the first tier weak at the later ones, this is not the case in mop tho). to fix it i'd give MM a spell like Colossus Smash, maybe higher duration and higher cd like 12sec duration 30sec cd. but b4 that they must make some of our abilities passive procs like Dire Beast.

may I ask how you come to the conclusion that when damage is physical, it makes scaling bad?
Whats the difference in physical and magical? physical gets reduced by armor, about 30% or something like that. but as all bosses have the same constant amount of armor, why should our scaling get worse later on just because its physical??

[Penguintamer]

MM needs another mechanic. Passive or active. It has 3 buttons right now that are MM exclusive. It's not a real spec. It's seriously boring.

[Beoren]

may I ask how you come to the conclusion that when damage is physical, it makes scaling bad?
Whats the difference in physical and magical? physical gets reduced by armor, about 30% or something like that. but as all bosses have the same constant amount of armor, why should our scaling get worse later on just because its physical??

Boss armor isnt increase in every tier? I remember a blue post in Cata saying the reason they gave Warriors Colossus Smash was so they won't stay behind as the expansion progresses. i might be wrong tho don't count on me, but it is a fact that MM (and all Hunter's specs) scales bad maybe there is a different solution.

[Raldazzar]

I'm not sure what needs to be done, but its the only spec I enjoy in pvp, so I hope it does get some love!

[Migrin]

MM needs another mechanic. Passive or active. It has 3 buttons right now that are MM exclusive. It's not a real spec. It's seriously boring.

Survival has explosive shot and black arrow. How is that more exciting? Generic specs are a problem almost every class is currently fighting with.

My main problem problem is that our instant aimed shots proc so seldomly that I have to go afk to celebrate everytime it happens.

[Deleted]

Survival has explosive shot and black arrow. How is that more exciting? Generic specs are a problem almost every class is currently fighting with.

My main problem problem is that our instant aimed shots proc so seldomly that I have to go afk to celebrate everytime it happens.

On a PvP perspective, Survival has more (frequent) traps and roots; BM has a trinket, a stun and more (and more frequent) pet abilities; MM gets a 4sec free slow over a 9 sec cd. Doesn't look much balanced in term of both uniqueness and utility.

[Migrin]

On a PvP perspective, Survival has more (frequent) traps and roots; BM has a trinket, a stun and more (and more frequent) pet abilities; MM gets a 4sec free slow over a 9 sec cd. Doesn't look much balanced in term of both uniqueness and utility.

Totaly agree with that statement. From PvP perspective BM and MM are like night and day with SV being somewhere in between. But From pve perspective atleast sv and mm are equally interesting to play if that is to be measured by the amount of butons you hit in your standard rotation.

For those specs utility comes mostly from talents which are available to all specs. Unfortunately MM lost all its utility skills where as BW remains with BM.

[Deleted]

I made yet another post on the Eu forums, not that I believe it matters, but in case anyone feels like supporting here it is: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...3044785?page=1

[Garkanh]

MM got the best, most fluid, and easyest to learn-rotation of all 3 specs IMO. BM is a close second, with survival being a giant cluster-f&%k.

As MM, you are never focus capped, and you are never focus starved. There is always something to do, you will always have enough focus to cast something without worrying about hitting 100 focus. Not even in the 100-80% phase.

starting out with SrS - AMoC -chimera - readyness - steady - steady - aimed and then just casting enough steady's to fire those aimed and filling in a chimera once in a while, you will easyly see 200k single target burst dps with average ilvl 490 gear and a raidfinder Taoron 2/2 as i run with atm, ending with a single target dps around 120k dps at the end of the fight (Depending on the boss ofc)

[PuppetShowJustice]

I miss the days when Chimera Shot interacted with the different Stings. It gave Chimera a nice "Swiss Army Knife" feel. I know people say it all the time but Marks never recovered the identity that it lost when its abilities became baseline in 5.0.

I'd start by giving it a smoother single target rotation (I agree with the Aimed cost). I think Chimera needs a bit more flair. Or to interact with something else in a more meaningful fashion. Anything to make the signature shot a proper signature.

I'd honestly kind of like to see Marks get a revised version of Volley. But sometimes I feel like the only person in the world who misses Volley.

[Raldazzar]

I miss the days when Chimera Shot interacted with the different Stings. It gave Chimera a nice "Swiss Army Knife" feel. I know people say it all the time but Marks never recovered the identity that it lost when its abilities became baseline in 5.0.

I'd start by giving it a smoother single target rotation (I agree with the Aimed cost). I think Chimera needs a bit more flair. Or to interact with something else in a more meaningful fashion. Anything to make the signature shot a proper signature.

Totally agree.


I'd honestly kind of like to see Marks get a revised version of Volley. But sometimes I feel like the only person in the world who misses Volley.

Chim shot used to be fun to use. I used to love using Scorpid sting and chim to disarm. so much fun

[Hiricine]

Well MM needs a buff no matter how you look at it. A nice start would be to buff MM aoe (And BM) to put out the damage that surv does, or close to it. All blizz would ahve to do is buff beast cleave damage, multi shot damage, and nerf the initial damage part of improved serpent sting to compensate.

Simply put it needs a damage buff. It would be cool for them to make the rotation a little bit more awesome while buffing the damage, but any buff it needs could be accomplished by just bumping the numbers on steady shot, chimera shot, and arcane shot. I don't think they want the 80-100% range to be overwhelmingly strong

[Gunba]

The only thing that needs to be fixed about MM (and to a lesser extent BM) is it's AOE. Currently all three specs do more or less the same damage output - BM is slightly ahead, SV has great AOE, what exactly is MM good for? If MM was more 'averaged' (more single target than SV, more aoe than BM) it would at least have a role, but currently it is useless. I guess nerfing SV AOE would also be a solution.

[Migrin]

Well MM needs a buff no matter how you look at it. A nice start would be to buff MM aoe (And BM) to put out the damage that surv does, or close to it. All blizz would ahve to do is buff beast cleave damage, multi shot damage, and nerf the initial damage part of improved serpent sting to compensate.

Simply put it needs a damage buff. It would be cool for them to make the rotation a little bit more awesome while buffing the damage, but any buff it needs could be accomplished by just bumping the numbers on steady shot, chimera shot, and arcane shot. I don't think they want the 80-100% range to be overwhelmingly strong

Well, that sounds a bit overdone. I think it is okay to have situational specs rather than 3 speccs that are equally good in all situations. Bumbing Arcane shot would probably have undesired side effects. First of all it would increase single target damage of all three specs. Secondly it would further strengthen Thrill of the hunt(Which is already superior in AoE situation) as Toth usually leads to a higher usage of AS in your rotation. If wee need a passive damage increase they should probably go with steady, chimera or wild quiver. Wild quiver would also buff our Multyshot by a big margin. But smoothening the rotation of MM might solve the issue already.

[Deleted]

The only thing that needs to be fixed about MM (and to a lesser extent BM) is it's AOE. Currently all three specs do more or less the same damage output - BM is slightly ahead

Heh, based on my testing, with my gear (496 ilvl) as BM I do 8k more dps than as MM. 8k is not "slightly ahead", its 2.4 million damage over 5 minutes, which could easily be that 1-2% boss hp that lead you to a wipe/enrage. SV? It's only 5k behind.

Sure, it could be because of gear and 4pc bonus, but still, MM being on par is bullshit. I do agree with the rest though.

On the other hand, I've been doing some tests with FD: with the 5.2 patch changes, you get a whopping 200-400 dps increase (varies with haste from gear). I honestly hope it's some issue with femaledwarf, 'cause if this is blizz's fix then we're all just doomed.

[zenyatta]

Heh, based on my testing, with my gear (496 ilvl) as BM I do 8k more dps than as MM. 8k is not "slightly ahead", its 2.4 million damage over 5 minutes, which could easily be that 1-2% boss hp that lead you to a wipe/enrage. SV? It's only 5k behind.

Sure, it could be because of gear and 4pc bonus, but still, MM being on par is bullshit. I do agree with the rest though.

On the other hand, I've been doing some tests with FD: with the 5.2 patch changes, you get a whopping 200-400 dps increase (varies with haste from gear). I honestly hope it's some issue with femaledwarf, 'cause if this is blizz's fix then we're all just doomed.

Funny, my BM is 5k ahead of my Surv, too (as per femaledwarf). In actual play it's closer to 10-12k lss than BM, though admittedly that may be player error (~95k single target as Surv vs ~102+ as BM).

That said, MM definitely needs help. GC says the new twaek to lower AiS cast time picked their dps up, but I bet it wasn't 8k worth of dps.

[Yuyn]

To Fix this Aimed Shot cost should be lowered to 40 (from 50), Chimera shot cost should be lowered to 40 (from 45) and the spec should be given a Passive that makes our maximum focus 120 (like BM has).

I'm not quite sure the reduction in focus costs is necessary, given that this straight-up adjusts the damage output, but I think an increased focus pool is a good idea. I'd even go as far as to say, being a BM and SV loyalist who's never seriously played MM, that MM could have a higher focus pool than BM does -- perhaps 150 would be even better, especially without adjusting the current focus costs? This would also help to solve, at least I'd expect it to help solve, the issue of rather low burst in PvP, without significantly changing the overall damage output.

It would probably make the spec a lot more forgiving, too. More room for error without losing significant damage by doing a double Steady at the wrong moment (and become more akin to BM and SV's errors of just losing a second or two off a shot cooldown).

[eschatological]

You know what's weird, I play ToTH-SV single target (yes, some people do it) really poorly. Just switching that one talent for Fervor ups my DPS significantly, I feel like I either munch too many free ASs or I spend too much time spamming AS. It's a silly spec right now, imo, very mashy.

[Glurp]

So after playing MM a lot more and familiarizing myself with the min-maxing and other finer points of the spec I am willing to say that there is nothing seriously wrong with MMs damage output when played well. I still can't quite match my BM DPS (about 2-4k off on most fights) and I still find the Careful Aim seciton to be a massive pain because of the high Focus cost on Aimed Shot.

I still stand by my original theory that the best way to fix this is to in one way or another make Aimed Shot cost a lower percentage of our focus pool. Currently 50 cost on a 100 Focus pool is 50% cost. I would suggest lowering it to a 30-35% cost, either by maxing it cost 30-35 Focus and keep our Focus pool at 100 or Increase our Focus pool to 120 and have the cost for Aimed Shot at 40.