[Resto] Wild Mushrooms

[Migraine]

I would like some input of people who are on the ptr or who have have taken the time to look at the new mechanics for shrooms.

I raid 25's and shrooms are about my least favourite spell in the game and I am hoping that the changes will be enough for me to start using that poxy targetting recticle again.

For those that have been testing them how have you been using them, as a raid heal or as a large tank heal; how long in general are you finding that they take to charge in a raid environment where you are not actively trying to charge them?

Have the changes been enough to persuade anyone that didn't use them before to start using them once live hits.

Please can we try and keep this on topic and civil.

[skilly]

I was looking forward to the shroom changes but so far they've been largely disappointing. The problem is that they're so dependent on clairvoyance, even moreso now that there's incentive for druids to wait until they're fully charged to burst them. They require some measure of foresight in their current form on live, but for the maximum potential burst in PTR the time needed will be way longer than 3 GCDs, which means that after spending time and mana building them up it's extremely goddamn aggravating when they're wasted, the raid moves, and you have to re-plant fresh ones. It's not a problem on farm when you are accustomed to the raid's movements, but on progression they're going to be awful to try to use.

So far out of the raids on PTR, Iron Qon and Jin'rokh were really the only ones where shrooms lived up to their promise of a big, satisfying, long-overdue AOE burst... but both fights moved so quickly and the damage was so intense that it was difficult to set up proper shrooms outside of the pre-plant and charging before combat started. For the other bosses, it was hit-or-miss whether the shrooms would be effective or not, particularly because the fights were designed with constant movement and lots of spread.

As a sidenote, I noticed that if you have Rejuvs ticking you can further maximize shrooms' healing capacity by casting Might of Ursoc and waiting for the hots to tick before detonation. Possibly in combination with a Symbiosed Fortifying Brew, it'd make for a very sweet burst... but with how difficult timing & placement is already these tricks are not likely to be used anyway, I guess.

Bottom line is that I hope there are some changes made regarding the long setup and/or the rigidity of location: fixing one or the other would do a lot to ease the EXTREME FRUSTRATION in trying to use them as a genuine burst CD. Something like Totemic Projection whereby we could move our charged shrooms to a new spot, or simply not reset the charge when we have to re-plant in a different location.

[Deleted]

There is a big thread about Wild Mushrooms here in the druid section.
Much of the new mechanics and how they work and others feedback, can be read there.

mmo-champion.com/threads/1248445-Resto-Overhealing-Shrooms

[Migraine]

That thread is locked hence why I opened this one.

[Shifthappens]

Ive posted this before but ill say it again, they need to make them like "earth shield" but to be cast on yourself only, after they charged you could carry them anywhere you want, reason why i NEVER use them and almost 100% sure i will not use them in 5.2 is because of placement problem. Impossible to use them in PVP as well, i rather spand Globals on cc etc.

now if they make it a shield (buff) like, that would have been awesome.

[iadamson]

Plant a mushroom spore up to 3 raid members. When they charge they sprout mushrooms within 5 ft of the raid members u put the spore on. Buff remains until canceled. Only3 raid members can have a spore on them at one time.

Minor glyph to look like wild flowers

[Migraine]

Cheers Skilly

Do you use them on live at the moment out of interest.

[skilly]

I do use mushrooms fairly often on live in a 25man heroic raid setting, and they can account for up to 5% of my healing done in their current state on some fights. However, that's because it's farm content and I have a very good idea of where the raid will be and when incoming damage happens.

I will continue to attempt to use them in PTR raids and I have been asking my raid to get used to using them as stack points. So far, more often than not the raid just has to move and the shrooms end up being re-planted before detonation. It is true that the more familiar you are with the fights the less their long setup and guesswork placement will hinder their usage, and using them the way I currently do on live will inevitably net larger gains with the changes eventually. Nevertheless I just wanted to say that I find their limitations incredibly annoying, especially when the new "charged" shrooms are being regarded as a huge boost for us. It's even more aggravating when you look at the comparative simplicity of other classes' burst cds... although I know comparing classes is a pointless exercise I can't help but find shrooms excessively difficult, limited, and with a discouragingly high chance of waste.

[Elysara]

Cheers Skilly

Do you use them on live at the moment out of interest.

No one uses them on live right now, They are complete shit

And in some ways Skilly is right, If they want to buff mushrooms then they need to make them more...moveable.

Say on a fight like...Stone Guard? People are always constantly moving, You place your shrooms down before-hand, But let's say an explosion happens on the other side of the room from where you 'THOUGHT' the explosion would happen?

Well that is fucking useless. They need to be more versatile

[Migraine]

I used them for the first time in a long while on Empress 25 HC and they were fairly useful on the stack point for the ranged during the retreat and the melee on the boss but that is about the only point that I have bothered with them. I still don't like the mechanic and even when they are buffed I just cannot see myself using them as much as I should.

[necromorphs]

Plant a mushroom spore up to 3 raid members. When they charge they sprout mushrooms within 5 ft of the raid members u put the spore on. Buff remains until canceled. Only3 raid members can have a spore on them at one time.

Minor glyph to look like wild flowers

That was something I had in mind too except let the mushrooms be on that player and any reju overhealing done like 2-3 yards from that player will be absorb by shroom. You can only have maximum of 3 mushrooms at a time. Okay, what I proposed might sound too ideal, so only 1 shroom can be placed on a player each time and lets face it, if the mushrooms are not mobile it would be too situational. Currently, i feel resto druids also lack burst healing compared to others, if you could place the shrooms on a player, if would alleviate this. If placing the shrooms cost a lot of GCDs. Why not let it be like Glyph of Beacon of Light, you have the global cooldown removed BUT shrooms have cooldown of few secs as a drawback. Honestly hope, the shrooms are more mobile...
Then again, If the shrooms can be placed on players, I wouldn't mind spending 1 GCD to place shrooms as they are potentially useful...

[ebah]

I used shrooms aswell especially last phase 25hc empress, good extra aoe heal... not good but better than nothing.

[Migraine]

Any further thoughts on these for those on the PTR?

[Irzerg]

If only 1 GCD to drop Mushroom x 3, another to bloom, but gives a 2nd "WG" hots effect. That will be good.

[Juvenate]

They are very fight specific and require your raid to be knowledgeable about them. With that said, I've used the updated version on the PTR and I have to say they may be borderline OP on certain fights that have stacking mechanics. Fully-charged (your WM:Bloom icon illuminates when they are charged) they can pump out over 800k off the GCD with only 3 GCDs to setup. That's about half of what Revival can dish out.

Another thing to note: As far as I could tell there is no penalty moving fully-charged shrooms. You keep the same charge if you need to move them to a different location.

---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 04:53 PM ----------

I take back the penalty thing. I just tested specifically on the PTR and they do lose their charge upon moving them. The icon is just bugged to still be illuminated.

[Juvenate]

That's a good news, no more decorative mushrooms. But about the 800k in 3GCD. Is not that simple right? Since you'll need all the overhealing from rejuvs. But good news anyway. =]

This might be a bit off-topic, but have anyone tested the new treants?

Yes. FoN is better than Live, but they are still inferior to Incarn and the newly buffed SotF. I saw about a 10k hps variance between using FoN and SotF without the T14 4-pc bonus.

[skilly]

They are very fight specific and require your raid to be knowledgeable about them. With that said, I've used the updated version on the PTR and I have to say they may be borderline OP on certain fights that have stacking mechanics. Fully-charged (your WM:Bloom icon illuminates when they are charged) they can pump out over 800k off the GCD with only 3 GCDs to setup. That's about half of what Revival can dish out.

Another thing to note: As far as I could tell there is no penalty moving fully-charged shrooms. You keep the same charge if you need to move them to a different location.

---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 04:53 PM ----------

I take back the penalty thing. I just tested specifically on the PTR and they do lose their charge upon moving them. The icon is just bugged to still be illuminated.

While I agree the burst can be nice when it lands effectively (although I haven't seen 800k, seems inflated) you can't really say that it's only 3 gcds to set up because you have to take charging time into account. Most of the time it will feel like a waste to detonate before they're fully charged, and that ramp up time is variable. You can count on the first, pre-combat set to be somewhat free (very handy on Heroic Tortos to pop immediately after getting the Crystal Shell debuff), but in combat it's definitely going to take much longer to set up. It's easy enough to charge them quickly by blanketing RJs on full health bars when there's nothing going on, but once people start taking damage and you have other things to worry about, blanketing will be harder, there will be less overhealing, thus the charging time will be slower and they will be at high risk of being wasted due to raid movement during however long it takes. So yeah, I wouldn't call them borderline OP when they're so difficult to use effectively, and particularly when so few of the fights cater to their limitations.

It would be great if they did keep their charges when relocated. I wish there was more vocal support for this idea instead of complacency because of how OP shrooms look in non-combat settings.

[earthwormjim]

While I agree the burst can be nice when it lands effectively (although I haven't seen 800k, seems inflated) you can't really say that it's only 3 gcds to set up because you have to take charging time into account. Most of the time it will feel like a waste to detonate before they're fully charged, and that ramp up time is variable. You can count on the first, pre-combat set to be somewhat free (very handy on Heroic Tortos to pop immediately after getting the Crystal Shell debuff), but in combat it's definitely going to take much longer to set up. It's easy enough to charge them quickly by blanketing RJs on full health bars when there's nothing going on, but once people start taking damage and you have other things to worry about, blanketing will be harder, there will be less overhealing, thus the charging time will be slower and they will be at high risk of being wasted due to raid movement during however long it takes. So yeah, I wouldn't call them borderline OP when they're so difficult to use effectively, and particularly when so few of the fights cater to their limitations.

It would be great if they did keep their charges when relocated. I wish there was more vocal support for this idea instead of complacency because of how OP shrooms look in non-combat settings.

Tanks are good blanket targets. It's a good idea to have rejuve on them at all times in case they take spike damage, and usually the dedicated tank healers keep them up to 100% most of the time.

I wish these mushrooms were live now, they'd be nice on Heroic Tsulong. 8 million plus heal with the light buff.