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  1. #141
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    It's in the manga.

    Aethas had nothing to do with the Blood Elves joining the Horde.

    He was an outcast because of his position in the Kirin Tor.

    When Aethas went to get their help against Malygos, Theron and Rommath still despised the Kirin Tor for allowing the Blood Elves to be imprisoned in Dalaran. Aethas didn't represent Blood Elf (Qual'Thalas) interests, only those people that chose to follow him and live in Dalaran.

    He was a broker of peace and neutrality in Dalaran.


    Except that the Silver Covenant are members of the Kirin Tor and its leader is Rhonin's wife. She has influence on the Council members and general members of the Kirin Tor. Aethas was an outsider coming to join. You seriously think she would have no power to block Aethas from entering the Kirin Tor?
    1. Ah, k.

    2. I never said he did...? ; I

    believe I said that part... short man on the totem pole yeah ;

    Which goes to him not having much actual power.

    He was also a spineless incompetent


    3. In -normal- times? Totally would! In days where they're fighting Malygos and the scourge? Considerably less influence since they need the extra manpower, and then can't just kick him out afterwards cause it'd violate their bizarre sense of morality.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 02:26 AM ----------

    Look, I'm not even interested in arguing any of this annoying tangential tripe.

    My point is the elves never had the position of leader in Dalaran because it's a primarily human city and they honestly didn't give that much of a care about it back before the scourge wrecked quel'thalas, they were pretty isolationist.

    I mean, hell it took the Orcs beating down their doors in WC2 to get them to send more than a token force even after Lothar's bloodline oath thing got called in.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    3. In -normal- times? Totally would! In days where they're fighting Malygos and the scourge? Considerably less influence since they need the extra manpower, and then can't just kick him out afterwards cause it'd violate their bizarre sense of morality.
    Aethas was on the Council before they moved Dalaran to Northrend and the Nexus War started.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  3. #143
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Aethas was on the Council before they moved Dalaran to Northrend and the Nexus War.
    But he hadn't brought the other bloodelves in, he hadn't even gotten Lor's permission yet.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    But he hadn't brought the other bloodelves in, he hadn't even gotten Lor's permission yet.
    What are you talking about? Aethas struggled to gain entry into the Kirin Tor and was appointed to the Council before any of this "need for extra manpower."
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  5. #145
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    What are you talking about? Aethas struggled to gain entry into the Kirin Tor and was appointed to the Council before any of this "need for extra manpower."
    Hmn, I must've read it wrong, that in the manga or ToW or what?

    All the same, see my edit on the other bit, Aethas was likely only able to get in because Dalaran was hurting after WC3 and couldn't afford not to let them in. The elves always had a -degree- of influence in the city but it's not as if they could've ever done anything the humans honestly felt wasn't in their best interests.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    My point is the elves never had the position of leader in Dalaran because it's a primarily human city and they honestly didn't give that much of a care about it back before the scourge wrecked quel'thalas, they were pretty isolationist.
    Leadership position in Dalaran is being on the Council since it's an equal vote between members. 2 full elves have sat on the Council. Even though Vereesa was never on the Council she is the leader of a subfaction within Dalaran and was put in charge of the Purge.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 12:46 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Hmn, I must've read it wrong, that in the manga or ToW or what?

    All the same, see my edit on the other bit, Aethas was likely only able to get in because Dalaran was hurting after WC3 and couldn't afford not to let them in. The elves always had a -degree- of influence in the city but it's not as if they could've ever done anything the humans honestly felt wasn't in their best interests.
    In the manga, Aethas was already on the Council before they moved Dalaran to Northrend.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  7. #147
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Leadership position in Dalaran is being on the Council since it's an equal vote between members. 2 full elves have sat on the Council. Even though Vereesa was never on the Council she is the leader of a subfaction within Dalaran and was put in charge of the Purge.
    1. Never at the same time, that's still 5 to 1 on any issue. And judging by Antonidas always being the foreign diplomat in the past, and Jaina / Rhonin doing so in current stuff, I think it's fair to say the leader has a degree of influence not shared by the others.

    2. You'd think if Aethas were so influential Jaina wouldn't have touched him without evidence he knew what was going on or something.

    Look, we're not getting anywhere, we don't have enough evidence to conclusively prove either of our points and it's going on 3AM here.

    Sidepoint stands that, for a race that's supposed to be 'clumsy yet powerful' at magic, and sort of 'the mario' of playable races, humans have a lot of influential mages, way more than any of the races that are supposedly good at magic, and it's kind of weird given their lack of notable priests, warriors, paladins or whatever that aren't... dead.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    2. You'd think if Aethas were so influential Jaina wouldn't have touched him without evidence he knew what was going on or something.
    Funny thing about that:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tides of War
    “Not just on this. You’ve always been strong, my lady. In your power, and in your character,” said Aethas Sunreaver unexpectedly. “Even when tested and tried. And when you faced both an unimaginable horror and an inconceivable temptation—and were perhaps yourself tainted by the effects of the mana bomb—you still chose a path that was fair and just, rather than vengeful and dark. It is, you must admit, unlikely that anything else will ever tempt you so again. And I do not think there stands among us anyone who, were he or she in your place, could have done better. Indeed… we might not have done even half so well.”
    “You misunderstand,” she said. “I needed help to not become… something terrible. I could not have done it without Kalecgos.”
    “Well then,” said Khadgar, turning to the blue dragon, “we’d best make sure he stays close to your side.”
    Woops, I guess Kalecgos was taking a nap during the Purge.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  9. #149
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Funny thing about that:


    Woops, I guess Kalecgos was taking a nap during the Purge.
    This was all prior to the divine bell theft which kind of throws things into a very different light.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  10. #150
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Except that the Silver Covenant are members of the Kirin Tor and its leader is Rhonin's wife. She has influence on the Council members and general members of the Kirin Tor. Aethas was an outsider coming to join. You seriously think she would have no power to block Aethas from entering the Kirin Tor?
    She's not even a mage. "Rhonin's wife" is not an official position of power in Kirin Tor or Dalaran. Without Rhonin, who the hell is she to decide anything?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Metzenphrenia. As defined in the DSM: "To be so badly written, that it drives the character into insanity." It's symptoms are similar to schizophrenia but even crazier.
    "There are no answers, only choices" - Solaris.

  11. #151
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    I mean dear god he's almost as bad as Koltira with how woefully inept he is.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  12. #152
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Funny thing about that:


    Woops, I guess Kalecgos was taking a nap during the Purge.
    Oh the irony, Aethas Sunreaver, oh the irony.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Metzenphrenia. As defined in the DSM: "To be so badly written, that it drives the character into insanity." It's symptoms are similar to schizophrenia but even crazier.
    "There are no answers, only choices" - Solaris.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    She's not even a mage. "Rhonin's wife" is not an official position of power in Kirin Tor or Dalaran. Without Rhonin, who the hell is she to decide anything?
    Doesn't matter if she's not a mage, she's an influential resident of Dalaran. Stands to believe she would have friends within the Kirin Tor giving her more influence than some elf walking in off the street.

    She's the woman behind the man.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  14. #154
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Doesn't matter if she's not a mage, she's an influential resident of Dalaran. Stands to believe she would have friends within the Kirin Tor giving her more influence than some elf walking in off the street.

    She's the woman behind the man.
    That man is no more. And her influence is questionable, biased, and, as the recent events have shown, extremist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Metzenphrenia. As defined in the DSM: "To be so badly written, that it drives the character into insanity." It's symptoms are similar to schizophrenia but even crazier.
    "There are no answers, only choices" - Solaris.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    That man is no more. And her influence is questionable, biased, and, as the recent events have shown, extremist.
    I was talking about her influence over blocking Aethas' admittance into the Kirin Tor. Not her current influence. But now that you bring it up: All the better when the leader turns extremist and gives her command of the city.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

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