Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #21
    Bloodsail Admiral rashen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,222
    Quote Originally Posted by pimpeddakota View Post
    The population always swings to rogues when they either become
    1. Face roll PvE
    2. Get legendary weapons
    3. Have huge pvp buffs allowing them to almost 1v1 most people
    1. Rogues always been a simple class to play in PvE with the exception of sub rogues ( Which is still fairly difficult ), can't have affected population as they have always been that way.
    2. That is the case for every single class getting a legendary, not a case specific to rogues.
    3. Rogues have always excelled in 1v1, but guess what? The game is not balanced around duels and world pvp.
    Last edited by rashen; 2013-02-05 at 05:38 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    One census site did have rogues overtake locks for the first time since like... vanilla? But Blizzard quickly confirmed that rogues were still the lowest population class, in a giant QQ thread that warlocks made when worldofwhatever showed legendaries pushing rogue numbers higher than them.

    Obviously, MoP erased even those small gains.

    The truth of the matter is, legendaries didn't even temporarily change the rogue population in a meaningful way. They didn't even put rogues as second least popular class.

    I would also say, though I'll save my arguments for a different thread, that rogues really DO need to be strong enough to "1v1 people". The brief version, which I'm not going to get into, is that a rogue often gets "the perfect open", and if he can't expect to get a win from that with top play, a VERY fast conclusion is that he can't win at all. This isn't the same as "everyone should die in cheap shot".
    Yes and no on the rogue has the opener and can choose the fight... but I on my DK flag carrier (running blood of course) should never be 1v1 by a rogue. I don't believe rogues should ever be able to kill a tank 1v1 because if they could they literally should be able to kill any and all other classes if gear is equal which it will be in 5.2 on the PVP side.

    I still remember the days of Vanilla when Druid population was the worst which was fixed when they gave us viable other specs to play finally. Not sure how blizzard could do this for pure classes though as a rogue is no longer needed for his stunlock ability in PvE so the 3 specs bleed into each other too much.

    Wish I knew the class better to give ideas other then the "orb" idea I suggested above but I don't because blizzard will not make 5 mans the require skill like the old days.
    ...Made it through 9 years of wow...

  3. #23
    Field Marshal
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Earth, Terran System
    Posts
    56
    Here's the problem.

    Blizzard and everyone always talks about (insert class name here) when they are equipped in Jesus level gear in a heroic raid or top end PVP. Elitist Jerks - Jesus Level gear, AskMrRobot - Gear Level 450 and above, for example.

    Until we get past this, these conversations are a waste of time. Players are dropping the class BEFORE they get there.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    That isn't what he said. He was talking about ROGUE POPULATION. That is not the same thing as arena or RBG viability.
    THIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Valyk View Post
    From a conceptual standpoint, Rogues are not interesting, the class has an image problem.
    When I think of a Rogue, all I imagine is someone who stabs things with daggers. Rogues don't do anything fancy. They have minor stealth/teleportation magic, but other than that they just stab things, and that's it. That's the extent of everything cool about the class.
    and THIS.

    Think of when you see a Death Knight out in the world..

    The throw Death and Decay on the ground, summon an army of Zombies, throw diseases on the player, pull them around as if they were nothing with deathgrip, shackle them in ice, and then smash them in the face with a giant axe. No matter what you say about them, DK look visually interesting and awesome in a fight and would make people want to roll them.

    NOW think when you see a Rogue out in the world...

    STEALTH ... hmm.. i know he's somewhere around here... stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab has he gone a bit shimmery? I can't tell? stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab he knows he's not even DPSing through my second wind right? stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab

    It looks crap, it doesnt make ANYONE want to roll a rogue. The only thing visually interesting about Rogue mechanics is that you can't see them half the time.

  5. #25
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Soviet Union
    Posts
    2,147
    They should tone down on all the Paladin visual effects, they're extremely "overpowered". No other class makes such big noises and covers half a raid zone with their visuals.
    That big falling hammer and the crackling hammer on the floor are 2 of the worst offenders.

  6. #26
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Twitch & Youtube
    Posts
    18,745
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    They should tone down on all the Paladin visual effects, they're extremely "overpowered". No other class makes such big noises and covers half a raid zone with their visuals.
    That big falling hammer and the crackling hammer on the floor are 2 of the worst offenders.
    The floor hammer is no worse than the lightwell.

    But I agree the falling hammer is annoying to see. Just scale the size of the hammer down.
    Human Female Gladiator (DPS Prot) Warrior. Wyrmrest Accord - US.

    "You should only install Warlords on your master hard drive. They will never be slaves." - @CM_Lore

    Better version of my avatar.

  7. #27
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Soviet Union
    Posts
    2,147
    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    The floor hammer is no worse than the lightwell.

    But I agree the falling hammer is annoying to see. Just scale the size of the hammer down.
    The floor hammer is ridiculously loud and the light bolts it emits have a massive range, far more annoying than even a Train Set. Lightwells are small and quiet.

  8. #28
    Immortal Destil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kanda's House
    Posts
    7,858
    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    THIS



    and THIS.

    Think of when you see a Death Knight out in the world..

    The throw Death and Decay on the ground, summon an army of Zombies, throw diseases on the player, pull them around as if they were nothing with deathgrip, shackle them in ice, and then smash them in the face with a giant axe. No matter what you say about them, DK look visually interesting and awesome in a fight and would make people want to roll them.

    NOW think when you see a Rogue out in the world...

    STEALTH ... hmm.. i know he's somewhere around here... stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab has he gone a bit shimmery? I can't tell? stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab he knows he's not even DPSing through my second wind right? stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stab

    It looks crap, it doesnt make ANYONE want to roll a rogue. The only thing visually interesting about Rogue mechanics is that you can't see them half the time.
    I mean, we're not THAT Visually entertaining..

    It's not like we have each strike we do illum-

    Well it's not like we have specific class anim-

    ....

    Well it's not like we have our own mou-

    ...God dammit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Transorcers, Warlords in disguise.
    Writer and journalist for Adventures In Poor Taste (http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/)

  9. #29
    When people choose which class to roll, the vast majority of the time they don't base the entire decision on the class's current state in X, X being 2's arena, 3's arena, raids, battlegrounds, 5-mans, dailies etc. Most of them are influenced by the look and feel of how the class plays. The rogue look and feel is defined by subtlety and sneakiness, which is a good theme but not a particularly visually compelling one, which in turn could turn off a number of new players. Making rogues more visually distinctive could go a long way toward increasing their relative numbers more permanently than giving them a weapon for one tier.

  10. #30
    Epic!
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,547
    Give rogues a tanking spec. Dodge/Evasion/Self heal build, its something I have wanted on rogue since TBC tanking Gruul. I think it would add something to the class and another tank can't hurt right?

    That and make combo points on the rogue, not the target. That way they can use them to sustain tanking finishing moves.
    Random stuff WoW UI Enthusiast WoW
    Youtube Some old UIs care#2582
    Stream (WoW most evenings now) Lastest UI (Roth's Diablo inspired) EU-Horde

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Nope! I can safely say that you are totally uninformed. Well, not about warriors being ridiculously overpowered, but about rogues not being underpowered.

    http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0-0-3-0-0.html

    3v3 rep. Look to the left of the graph, and you'll see the overpowered legendary wielding rogue of 4.3, right underneath the top ranked class of the season- shaman. Obviously, while enhance and elemental weren't AWFUL, they weren't the reason shaman were well repped- resto was. You'd expect a healer to be in top spot, and this season you'd be wrong- arms is dominant, to a point never seen before.

    But look at the BOTTOM of the graph. The poor weak classes at the tail end of cataclysm were all hovering around 5% rep- that means that the devs failed to give them ways to win. But now check out the NEW bottom of the graph! With monks and rogues really effing terrible, at a representation lower than all those previously bad classes, by a factor of 2-5.

    Whoa. Looks like rogues really ARE that bad!
    It's nice you like to pick and choose whatever data you want to tailor to your argument but that's not how it works. go beyond 3v3 and look at the global rankings

    http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0---0-0-0.html Arms warriors, frost mages and Spriests are the represented top damage dealers, go figure they are the ones considered the most OP with the most complaints and received/receiving a lot of nerfs as a result. Rogues of all specs have close enough representation to other classes/specs, all this data confirms is that a handful of specs/classes are what everyone at the top plays...

  12. #32
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    WHEREVER I WANT AINT NO ONE GONNA DO NOTHIN ABOUT IT IMMA T-REX
    Posts
    11,158
    I'm just going to paste my thoughts from recent rogue feedback discussions:

    While I think there are a handful of particular things about the rogue class that ought to be changed, I think those problems are more frustrating to the established rogue community then a detractor for new-to-the-class players. Random Joes aren't abandoning their rogue alt as dull because Tricks of the Trade is stupid design, or the are tired of having to go Combat for cleave fights in raid. Random Joes aren't even getting that far.

    I think the real reason people don't play rogues is they just aren't flashy and exciting. Most people think they're boring. I love my rogue and have been happily playing her since classic, but there is merit to this argument. Almost all our attacks are variations of of the same stab/slash activity and while some of them have distinct animations, we don't have a lot of the really cool graphics that some of the other melee classes have. Watch a DK fight someone, then watch a rogue. Even watching it is dull. We also don't have any abilities where reading the tooltip is "wow, that sounds cool." Some of our utility is fun and useful, but most of our primary moves sound and look pretty lackluster. These things are super trivial but I think in reality they are big unconscious influencers for how attracted a player is initially to a class. If you look and feel boring, no one is going to stick with you long enough to fall in love with all those things the rest of us really love about rogues.

    I mean, you can make arguments that we're rogues, we're supposed to be subtle. Flashy graphics and fantastical abilities are too over-the-top for us. You can point out that because we've always been high damage, we've never needed a huge overhaul like Ret Paladins, and that we're older then the new, flashy DK class that needed that flare to attract people to trying it out. Perhaps valid arguments, but I still think it's an issue that needs looked at.

    To me, while the monk is the disciplined martial artist, rogues are the dirty street fighter with the concealed weapons. I've love to see more fun abilities like eye gouge and fishhook and groin punch, complete with corresponding animations. Who wouldn't read those tooltips and say AWESOME I NEED TO TRY THIS CLASS.

    Or maybe I'm just fucked up

    Don't get me wrong, our weapon abilities are important and should be our primary attack, but it would be nice to have some other unique abilities as part of our rotation that aren't just another variation of a slash with our weapon. Something that made you excited when you got the ability, something that would make you want to leave town to run around and find some mobs to test it on.

    TL;DR I think enhanced graphics is a huge portion of what we need. The rest is some abilities that actually sound really cool. Our damage is not, and has never been, the problem.


    I guess I should probably move this thread to the rogue forums...?
    AbathurSnuggles: Blizzard Alpha Videos

    For Moderation Concerns, please contact a Global:
    TzivaDarsithisRaduxArleeSimcaElysiaZaelsino

  13. #33
    Lies, all lies!

  14. #34
    The Patient Linneth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    316
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    It's nice you like to pick and choose whatever data you want to tailor to your argument but that's not how it works. go beyond 3v3 and look at the global rankings

    http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0---0-0-0.html Arms warriors, frost mages and Spriests are the represented top damage dealers, go figure they are the ones considered the most OP with the most complaints and received/receiving a lot of nerfs as a result. Rogues of all specs have close enough representation to other classes/specs, all this data confirms is that a handful of specs/classes are what everyone at the top plays...
    That graph mixes Arena and BGR ratings, which is like comparing orange to apples. Rogues are horribly underrepesented in Arenas.

  15. #35
    ya rogues are quite boring.. in pve the only thing i do is spam sinister strike and revealing strike on cd then eviscerate.. theres really not much difference in attacks. out in the world its just stealth kill stealth kill.. and sadly i dont think blizz will change it much. i find pretty much every other class has some flashy visual or amazing attack.
    shamans have ascendance, warriors have avatar//bladestorm/shockwave/ leaps everywhere and charge/ pallys have their hammer/ priests have their shadow spec/ mages have lots of arcane magic/ monks have breath of fire/ brewmaster skills and spinning crane kick/ locks have everything/ even hunters have a pet + that boomerang talent at 90 thats really cool to watch.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    They should tone down on all the Paladin visual effects, they're extremely "overpowered". No other class makes such big noises and covers half a raid zone with their visuals.
    That big falling hammer and the crackling hammer on the floor are 2 of the worst offenders.
    Halo is by far bigger...

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 07:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Linneth View Post
    That graph mixes Arena and BGR ratings, which is like comparing orange to apples. Rogues are horribly underrepesented in Arenas.
    Arena isn't the only pvp. If you're going to talk about pvp you look at everything. Not just arena, or a specific bracket. That means *nothing* overall.

  17. #37
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Twitch & Youtube
    Posts
    18,745
    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    ya rogues are quite boring.. in pve the only thing i do is spam sinister strike and revealing strike on cd then eviscerate.. theres really not much difference in attacks. out in the world its just stealth kill stealth kill.. and sadly i dont think blizz will change it much. i find pretty much every other class has some flashy visual or amazing attack.
    shamans have ascendance, warriors have avatar//bladestorm/shockwave/ leaps everywhere and charge/ pallys have their hammer/ priests have their shadow spec/ mages have lots of arcane magic/ monks have breath of fire/ brewmaster skills and spinning crane kick/ locks have everything/ even hunters have a pet + that boomerang talent at 90 thats really cool to watch.
    Honestly most complexness in rotations these days is just watching your "combo points" and spending them on the right move at the right time.
    Human Female Gladiator (DPS Prot) Warrior. Wyrmrest Accord - US.

    "You should only install Warlords on your master hard drive. They will never be slaves." - @CM_Lore

    Better version of my avatar.

  18. #38
    Why does it matter that there are less rogues than there is paladins? there are what? 10 classes more to play, why do you NEED tp play a rogue, if you hate it, quit. start something else
    This is just annoying, i for one like the rogue class, and i dont want any "major changes" so that a person playing mage, wants to play a rogue alt.

    The CP on yourself except the target i wouldnt mind, or getting some kind of "execute/HoW" ability. But other than that, im fine with playing rogue the way it is.
    “The worst thing I can be is the same as everybody else. I hate that.”

  19. #39
    I think Rogues *really* need a revamp like Warlocks got.

    They all use the same resource (Energy) with the same mechanic (Combo points), the specs lack any kind of identity, they are the most underrepresented class, etc. These are all arguments that Blizzard had used to explain the Warlock revamp.

    [useless ideas that will never be implemented]

    Assassination: Heavily accentuate the shadow magic / teleporting aspect in one spec, with big bursty flashes of dark/purple shadow magic and such.

    Subtlety: Heavily accentuate poisons, make them much more of a DoT class with skills that apply temporary damaging poisons with big green liquid bursts or such.

    Combat: Combine parts of the current Combat and Assassination specs to try to satisfy people that like the class as is.

    [/useless ideas that will never be implemented]

    I dunno, this is just a potential avenue they could go down to give the different specs their own Identity.

    Right now, there's nothing that says for me whether a Rogue is any specific spec, but if I see a Howling Blast get thrown around it's visually obvious that what I'm facing is a Frost DK, or if I see a Death Coil or a really big zombie I know it's an Unholy DK. If I see a Chaos bolt fly across the screen that came from a Destruction Warlock, or if I see a Warlock that looks like a Demon, well, Demonology. Etc, etc, etc.

    If a Rogue is just sitting next to me and my health is going down, that's all I even notice. There's no identity to being a Rogue, and once again, it's just a yellow dot. :-/

  20. #40
    Have you thought about politics? You have a nice way of bending words.

    Just think what they did to rogues on 4.3/s11. Godlike status in both pve and pvp, the first legendary for a single class. And yet the population didn't do that great. They do need to do things to the class besides balance.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •