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  1. #41
    The problem isn't aethetics or viability. Rogues have consistently been fine in both departments (until s12). The problem is playstyle. Despite how smooth the energy and combo point system is, they've made it even better and keep giving it to other classes instead of making it better for rogues. This does not mean the class is weak in any way shape or form, it's just the class skill cap AND skill floor are higher than that of most other classes.
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by peteypuff View Post
    rogues right now are fine in pvp, more than a few rogues have made it over 2500 rating in 3's, in 5.2 they will be overpowered again if the patch was to hit today. and combo points not being on the target is the dumbest idea i have ever heard, that's what redirect is for. please stop complaining, you're about to become the biggest problem in pvp like you were for all of cata and you're already complaining.
    Posts like this ignore data. I'm not sure if 2500 is the best spot to talk about- this is what, the top 2% of the pvp population? But even if it was:

    http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0-0-3-0-0.html

    Check the graph. Look at the 2500+ things. There's about the same rep at 2200 (3%) and warriors are about the same (20%).

    This means that rogues are not fine. Rogues suck on live. Even at 2500- where they really suck!

    Anyone saying otherwise hates rogues and wants them to stay bad.. You are just in here trying to hold us back.


    Combo points on the target is not "the dumbest idea you have ever heard". Combo points on the target would be a welcome change for many casual rogues that would greatly increase the popularity of the class- while not actually increasing power of the class at the top level. That actually seems like a sort of change that would be welcome. It's not unprecedented- paladins have this, monks have this, DKs have this, warriors have this- to a degree, shadow priests and enhance shamans have this. What I want to know is- though I suspect I know the answer- why do YOU think rogues should have combo points on the target? Like, what's your reasoning?

    I have mine, and I think CPs on the rogue are fine. But it's definitely a good idea for "make the class approachable".
    Last edited by Verain; 2013-02-06 at 07:09 AM.

  3. #43
    I don't know how to make the Rogue class more popular. All I know is why I don't play it.

    I find the Energy resource extremely frustrating. It never feels like I can do anything. It's constantly empty. It's just annoying. That's just my opinion of it.

  4. #44
    Rogues arent bad. Explain to me why Mirzka and Reckful are rank 1 as rogue?

  5. #45
    They want people to enjoy playing a Rogue more, and the visuals do play a part in that. They need more cool factor in addition to gameplay tuning.

    I think they need cooler glyph options. "Your vanish now leaves a log in place of where you were."
    Last edited by DomesticViolence; 2013-02-06 at 07:59 AM.

  6. #46
    I don't really see anything short of making rogues ridiculously overpowered working. Rogues have always been overrepresented in arena play and yet it didn't really help. I still am quite convinced that there are just more people who don't really like to play the class poking stuff with little pointy toothpicks given the alternatives.

  7. #47
    the reason people are not playing rogue is not because of there op/up ness. its because they lack visual effects and still got the same basic gameplay they had in vanilla. all 3 specs use the basic same rotation. use cp builder till 5 points then use it to buff your self. then use cp builder again till 5 points. then use it on a rupture. then use cp again till 5 points then either use eviscarate or envenom. so every spec is basicly the name only changes names. but even the viduels are basicly all the same.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 10:07 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakzlol View Post
    Rogues arent bad. Explain to me why Mirzka and Reckful are rank 1 as rogue?
    i'm sorry but if you look at reckful armory you will see he just start playing his rogue again now that they are viable again in 5.2.
    sure they are rank 1 as rogue because there still the best rogue out there.
    look at vangaurd. he gets into rbg. does that mean 99% would take a ret pala with him?

  8. #48
    The only remotely interesting visual rogues have at the moment is KSp. Even thought I dislike combat, having a cool animation was almost enough to keep me from swapping to assassination. This isn't so much a discussion of PvP viability, rogues have been pretty good in other seasons and yet remained relatively unpopular. No, this is about class popularity. We miss something that most of the other classes have.

  9. #49
    Warchief Ron Burgundy's Avatar
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    let rogues use more than just daggers for starters.
    Milk was a bad choice.

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  10. #50
    My preferred class is the hunter, but I still think that the rogue is the most fascinating one. Being able to stealth at will and mess with anyone is fun as hell. I think they hit the rogues extremely hard as a class following the whining produced by some "legendary" weapons, not the class itself. Having to choose between Shadowstep and Preparation was just too much

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    People in general don't like energy classes on account of energy acts as a CD on all your abilities with variable duration, based on haste and energy refund. It's not something a button spammer can do well on, even at its easiest. That's why it doesn't appeal to a lot of players and low population as a result.
    I think this as well.
    Plus the whole combo point system feels far too restrictive being on the target not the rogue, doesn't allow for easy target switching at all like any other class.

    The mechanics of the class just feel like they belong in the tank and spank vanilla wow era and are not flexible enough for today's fast paced combat. Combat as a rogue feels like you are just sitting there waiting for energy/combo points before you can finally do something interesting.
    Last edited by Briga; 2013-02-06 at 12:04 PM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auberdeen View Post
    make the combo points OUR points, not on the target PLEASE!
    I would definately love this change.
    ..:: Lvl 90's: 50 ::..

  13. #53
    I'll be super honest, the killer thing with rogues for me is the huge emphasis on self-passives & lack of ability hitting. I constantly feel like I'm waiting for my energy to return, and then I build up all these combo points... for a passive effect (Slice and Dice & Recup).

    I mained a rogue in vanilla, and for most of BC: Which was when combo points felt very useful (and cold blood + 5 point evis felt incredibly satisfying in PvP.) However now when I play my rogue, I hit a 5 point evis, or a 5 point Envenom, and it feels like all those points were just for a generic hit... and that was after using about 3 sets of points on passive effects! (rupture, slice & dice, Recuperate).

    It'd be kind of cool if they generated combo points on themselves AND on their target. The ones on themselves would be used for passive buffs like evasion, recuperate, slice and dice, ect. While the ones on their target would be used offensively (Envenom, Evicerate, Rupture, Expose Armor). Could also shift a good bit of damage from auto-attacks to your abilities, up energy regeneration, or give a couple filler moves that cost no energy: but influence your combo points in manners that really feel like chaining. Example: Use X ability -> Y Ability, if you Sinister Strike then you'd gain 2 self points. But if you use X + X, it'd be two combo points on the enemy, and Y+Y would be one on each. Using none would just put one on the enemy. It'd make you decide how you wanted to chain your energy.

    Heck, could even have 4-5 no-energy low damage chain moves to influence how you gain your points (or influence your passives! Some combos would trigger SnD, others Recuperate... it'd make them seperate from one another and force you to choose how strong you want each one to be.)


    But, I'm sleepy, ranting, and dreaming. TL;DR: To much idle time autoattacking & using combo points on passive buffs.
    Ones brain cannot co-pilot if ones mouth is on auto-pilot.

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