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  1. #21
    Well Ricje, MWs are not the only specc that uses those talents, for WW/BrM those are still buffs, and for us it still isn't too bad, we still get the Chi cost reduction, and ChiBurst is still quite nice. (as a 10m healer it's still a buff to AE healing, for 25m where Burst is sometimes the go-to chispender it's different of course)
    But they defenetly did overshoot on the Sphere nerf, I'm sure that'll get buffed again. it is PTR, the values are still changeing every week.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    Well Ricje, MWs are not the only specc that uses those talents, for WW/BrM those are still buffs
    While this is true they are still nerfs for Mistweavers. The way the talents scale with AP it's still only a slight nerf (and Zen Sphere is still too weak to be a decent choice).
    , and for us it still isn't too bad, we still get the Chi cost reduction, and ChiBurst is still quite nice. (as a 10m healer it's still a buff to AE healing, for 25m where Burst is sometimes the go-to chispender it's different of course)
    Yes they're free but at the same time that 30 second cooldown can be a pain in the butt for raid healing. Before we could use it as a Chi dump and could use it on encounters such as Feng, Gara'jal, Imperial Vizier Zor'lok etcetera. Now we're stuck with a 30 second cooldown which means we have to spend even more mana to get a similar result. Speaking from a 10 man perspective as I don't do 25 man raids.
    But they defenetly did overshoot on the Sphere nerf, I'm sure that'll get buffed again. it is PTR, the values are still changeing every week.
    True but let's be honest. If they laid off the bad stuff Zen Sphere wouldn't have been butchered the way it is.
    Overall it's a nerf for Mistweavers (hurray more nerfs ). It starts to look like they changed their mind about our specialization and want us to focus more on Fistweaving. Fine by me, as I loved Chloromancer in Rift, BUT not everyone thinks the same way.
    Last edited by Ricje; 2013-02-06 at 08:09 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ricje View Post
    Yes they're free but at the same time that 30 second cooldown can be a pain in the butt for raid healing. Before we could use it as a Chi dump and could use it on encounters such as Feng, Gara'jal, Imperial Vizier Zor'lok etcetera. Now we're stuck with a 30 second cooldown which means we have to spend even more mana to get a similar result. Speaking from a 10 man perspective as I don't do 25 man raids.
    All other things aside, moving Chi Burst from a no-cooldown spell that costs 2 Chi to a free one with a 30 second CD is a pretty big nerf for AoE healing. Our only Chi-spender for AoE healing left now is Uplift, which can be pretty bad depending on the time and only hit select people. I like having more choices, not less.

  4. #24
    And what's that fucking invisible Tigereye brew 33% nerf ?

    Please, just use your brain, and go back 2 days earlier, this patch note is a total non sense, and makes the monk even worse than live

    Pretty ridiculous

    ( but no nerfs on Hpal for healers, on rogue for pvp ? Put your glasses on come on)

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    All other things aside, moving Chi Burst from a no-cooldown spell that costs 2 Chi to a free one with a 30 second CD is a pretty big nerf for AoE healing. Our only Chi-spender for AoE healing left now is Uplift, which can be pretty bad depending on the time and only hit select people. I like having more choices, not less.
    Exactly my point at the part you quoted. More mana spending with less effective results. Takes longer to heal the same amount and costs more
    The changes to Chi Wave and Zen Sphere prior to this atrocity PTR build were promising. Chi Wave however healing for less than on live while keeping the 15 second cooldown is a serious slap in the face as well as Zen Sphere's change.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Ricje View Post
    Exactly my point at the part you quoted. More mana spending with less effective results. Takes longer to heal the same amount and costs more
    The changes to Chi Wave and Zen Sphere prior to this atrocity PTR build were promising. Chi Wave however healing for less than on live while keeping the 15 second cooldown is a serious slap in the face as well as Zen Sphere's change.
    Well, as you are also speaking of a 10m perspective, I always found myself going with Chi-Wave for spothealing and using ReM+Uplift for AE healing, which is just as good as Chi Burst, (if Thunderfocused to be on all 10: better, if only on 6: a bit weaker), and not bound to positioning. So in my eyes the new Chi Burst is a buff. 30sec is a good time, will be ready on most big AoE hitters (Epicenter like), heals for a lot (1/2 revival) and is free. I'm perfectly happy with that.
    Chi Wave isn't to bad ither, it is quite a lot of intelligent single target heal. (it's over 100k free intelligent healing for 1 gcd). It'll just stink raw HPS wise compared to Burst.

    I can imagine that Sphere was much to strong on ptr for Brewmaster, because of the redicilous vengance amounts I can see a selfcasted Zen sphere on the tank to heal for 25k per tick and maybe 100k when going under 35%, making him nearly unkillable (those are just guessed numbers, when high vengance!)
    But if that was a deciding factor, they should takle the out of hand vengance issues, not just nerf it overall.

  7. #27
    This is the main MW problem: the non ability to heal who we want

    I know this is our gameplay, so we can't ask some aoe smart instant heal.

    BUT, perhaps, a glyph to reduce by 50% the mana cost of Surging mist, while puting some 6 seconds cooldown on it could probably solve, in part this problem

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    Well, as you are also speaking of a 10m perspective, I always found myself going with Chi-Wave for spothealing and using ReM+Uplift for AE healing, which is just as good as Chi Burst, (if Thunderfocused to be on all 10: better, if only on 6: a bit weaker), and not bound to positioning. So in my eyes the new Chi Burst is a buff. 30sec is a good time, will be ready on most big AoE hitters (Epicenter like), heals for a lot (1/2 revival) and is free. I'm perfectly happy with that.
    Chi Wave isn't to bad ither, it is quite a lot of intelligent single target heal. (it's over 100k free intelligent healing for 1 gcd). It'll just stink raw HPS wise compared to Burst.

    I can imagine that Sphere was much to strong on ptr for Brewmaster, because of the redicilous vengance amounts I can see a selfcasted Zen sphere on the tank to heal for 25k per tick and maybe 100k when going under 35%, making him nearly unkillable (those are just guessed numbers, when high vengance!)
    But if that was a deciding factor, they should takle the out of hand vengance issues, not just nerf it overall.
    Or they could do the same thing they're doing with Paladins and Priests, make them more effective through specialization (or in our case, Serpent stance). They neglected to do this however.

  9. #29
    Lvl 30 talents damage and heal feels kind of broken currently on PTR, hope they change that.

  10. #30
    For WW monk, reverting back to 4chi -> 1stack makes mastery, in it's current iteration, less useful then on live, which is an accomplishment by itself.

  11. #31
    This patch makes zero sense for monks. As I already said, this class is becoming a nightmare to play.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    This patch makes zero sense for monks. As I already said, this class is becoming a nightmare to play.
    This is subjective. I'm enjoying the class on live, although they're removing a lot of our flexibility especially mistweavers with the PTR notes which might make the class a bit limited in terms of options.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by zonde View Post
    This is subjective. I'm enjoying the class on live, although they're removing a lot of our flexibility especially mistweavers with the PTR notes which might make the class a bit limited in terms of options.
    I'm not talking about the gameplay, I'm referring to the costant nerfs and fixes that draw away all the fun.
    Why was it necessary to bring back 4 chi for tigereye brew? Why remove chi cost of T30 talents, increase cd, buff them and then nerf them into uselessness? This doesn't make any sense.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    I'm not talking about the gameplay, I'm referring to the costant nerfs and fixes that draw away all the fun.
    Why was it necessary to bring back 4 chi for tigereye brew? Why remove chi cost of T30 talents, increase cd, buff them and then nerf them into uselessness? This doesn't make any sense.
    Isn't fun subjective? :P

    Reverting the tigereye brew stacks to being generated after using 4 chi gives it some more symmetry on top of the fact that it might've made the cooldown too powerful for being available in high stacks with a very low time period spending chi. The T30 talents aren't "useless", they'll have the same usefulness as they do currently. A talent in the lvl 30 range isn't supposed to be game breaking, it's supposed to be situational. Having said this, I dislike that we will have our options for spending chi narrowed down as a mistweaver.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by zonde View Post
    Isn't fun subjective? :P

    Reverting the tigereye brew stacks to being generated after using 4 chi gives it some more symmetry on top of the fact that it might've made the cooldown too powerful for being available in high stacks with a very low time period spending chi. The T30 talents aren't "useless", they'll have the same usefulness as they do currently. A talent in the lvl 30 range isn't supposed to be game breaking, it's supposed to be situational. Having said this, I dislike that we will have our options for spending chi narrowed down as a mistweaver.
    I think the problem here is that spending Chi is part of the fun of being a Mistweaver, whereas BrMs and WWs are just using Chi as a means to an end and feel punished when they have to use Chi on a more utility-oriented ability. I'm not sure how you can reconcile that difference in talents that anyone can pick.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    I think the problem here is that spending Chi is part of the fun of being a Mistweaver, whereas BrMs and WWs are just using Chi as a means to an end and feel punished when they have to use Chi on a more utility-oriented ability. I'm not sure how you can reconcile that difference in talents that anyone can pick.
    Mistweavers need more ways to spend chi, not less.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    I think the problem here is that spending Chi is part of the fun of being a Mistweaver, whereas BrMs and WWs are just using Chi as a means to an end and feel punished when they have to use Chi on a more utility-oriented ability. I'm not sure how you can reconcile that difference in talents that anyone can pick.
    More uses for TFT wouldn't go unnoticed especially with the new tier bonus HINT HINT BLIZZARD

  18. #38
    Perhaps the nerf was because when 5.2 hits, we'll all be getting more PVP power, which now affects healing for hybrids?

    I don't know... I'm taking shots in the dark here.. no comment from Blizz at all on these invisible nerfs we're getting.

  19. #39
    Only classes Blizz care commenting about are mages, war and (disc) priests ^^

  20. #40
    Tigereye Brew is back to 3 Chi.

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