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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Cakka View Post
    I really don't see what makes people nostalgic about DAoC and I say that as a person whose first MMO it was for years. It had extremely poorly balanced PvP that completely relied on running buffbots, the only way to really level was through a massive grind(I don't think people these days even know what a grind means), getting the ToA items relied on massive zerg raids for open world targets and/or camping extremely rare spawns, PvE fighting was for some classes was basically auto-attacking, etc. I liked it at the time because I didn't know of anything better but seriously that game was just bad.
    I am pretty sure that most of DAOC nostalgia comes from pre-ToA era.

    As to why I am nostalgic about it: a) lore - I love games that reference real world myths b) I loved soloing in Emain Macha and having 1 v 1 or 1 v 2 fights, loved stalking frontiers during massive invasions to kill stragglers, or hooking up with a 7 man group to camp milegates. c) I loved grouping with proper people and killing stuff 8 v 80 or more - something that is nearly impossible in games today. Camping milegates with 2 spiritmasters + 2 healers = profit. d) Realm Pride!

  2. #42
    Legendary! Digglett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cakka View Post
    I really don't see what makes people nostalgic about DAoC and I say that as a person whose first MMO it was for years. It had extremely poorly balanced PvP that completely relied on running buffbots, the only way to really level was through a massive grind(I don't think people these days even know what a grind means), getting the ToA items relied on massive zerg raids for open world targets and/or camping extremely rare spawns, PvE fighting was for some classes was basically auto-attacking, etc. I liked it at the time because I didn't know of anything better but seriously that game was just bad.
    Granted, I haven't played it since... god knows when, sometime around when I was 10 or 11 in 2002 or something, either way, most of my nostalgia is admittedly simply for the fact it was my first ever MMO, and it was a completely mind blowing thing to me.


  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Cakka View Post
    I really don't see what makes people nostalgic about DAoC and I say that as a person whose first MMO it was for years. It had extremely poorly balanced PvP that completely relied on running buffbots, the only way to really level was through a massive grind(I don't think people these days even know what a grind means), getting the ToA items relied on massive zerg raids for open world targets and/or camping extremely rare spawns, PvE fighting was for some classes was basically auto-attacking, etc. I liked it at the time because I didn't know of anything better but seriously that game was just bad.
    you're talking about ToA. What people mean by the "real" DAoC was classic and shrouded isles (the first expansion). pve was a grind, that's true. but somehow back then I didn't mind, it was fun hooking up with other players and just explore the world in search of new mob groups or camps and just level. that was because one didn't knew anything else though, probably, but still, it was fun.

    what really made the game great, though, was the RvR. you could solo, you could run an 8man group or you could zerg. and the cool thing was that all of those playstyles were viable and it was a huge open world zone, no instanced battleground bullshit as we have in wow. over the time you got to know your enemies, you felt proud to play for your realm and you could actually make a name for yourself.

    also the value of player skill: if you had a good group of 8 people and you played well you could defeat 30-40 enemy players at once, purely based on skill. that kind of thing doesn't exist in any other mmo that we have today. imagine that in wow: you can play as well as you want, if the enemy has the numbers you're fucked. not in daoc.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Jainzar View Post
    pve was a grind, that's true. but somehow back then I didn't mind, it was fun hooking up with other players and just explore the world in search of new mob groups or camps and just level. .
    Time in general wasn't an issue back then, people weren't in a rush to get anywhere. I remember things like there always being a few paladins etc sat at the entrace to Tomb of Mithra just waiting around to res people.

    Main reason I wasn't a fan of ToA was because I don't like teal so hated all the armor . Atleast it was easy for me as a Minstrel, just tame a salamander and farm the scrolls solo.

    *edit* DAoC nostalgia derailment initiated.
    Last edited by Nirawen; 2013-02-07 at 09:50 AM.

  5. #45
    New devblog
    http://citystateentertainment.com/20...avor-the-bold/

    Important quote:
    We won’t include features just to gain a slightly larger market share. I won’t put (or allow anything to be put into the design by others) things that are there simply to gain more users at both the expense of other players and that are in conflict with the FPs. However, I may also put in some features that some people might not consider fun (like true day/night cycle, slower and different leveling systems, extremely limited fast travel, no PvE leveling/gear grind) because I believe that will make this a better game for our niche. (...) The game will have some very old school elements but it will also have some new ideas and twists and that means taking chances, big-time. Being totally independent again means I can take these chances the way I did in the past and that feels great.
    . I just can't wait

  6. #46
    I wish I could be excited about this. I loved DAOC right up until TOA, which inspired me to quit within a month. I came back for the classic (non-TOA) servers and loved it once again.

    However, Warhammer was a hot mess and a huge disappointment. As much as I would like to be supportive of this new project, I have absolutely zero faith in Mark Jacobs. He's extremely articulate and passionate, has always been GREAT at talking about plans, hopes, and aspirations for his games, and he seems like a nice guy (he responded personally and very kindly to feedback I sent on more than one occasion), so this isn't a total attack on him.

    There's just a big distance between talk and follow-through, and his track record is bad - plus he was not the driving force behind RvR in DAOC. That acknowledgement goes to other developers who are no longer associated with him.

    The Warhammer debacle was so godawful that all I can do is roll my eyes and sigh when I see that he wants to develop a new game.
    Last edited by Saravat; 2013-02-07 at 04:44 PM.

  7. #47
    Well, Mark clearly stated why WAR was an "failure", almost whoel team was spamming him "this will work Mark, trust me" and he believed them, although everything we said was not good, Mark also seen these things tha way. Hopefully, this time Mark will be like Metzen and the rest, so if he sees smth not good, he will state it. The problem is, he is too nice, while Metzen is kinda like Imperius from Diablo 3:P "You do as I say or you say goodbye", in other words, "my way or highway".

  8. #48
    I look forward to seeing where this game will be headed, and news on it do keep me interested in hearing more.

    I'm starting to doubt that it'll be a game for me however. As one person already pointed out, it is starting to sound like a Planeside 2 game, with a fantasy theme. No PvE, no geargrind (I like gear upgrades, at least just a little bit would be nice). Though I do like other things Mark Jacobs mentions in the newest blogpost.
    i5 2500K | Gigabyte GeForce GTX 760 2GB | 2x4GB Kingston HyperX 1600MHz

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito Noctix View Post
    I look forward to seeing where this game will be headed, and news on it do keep me interested in hearing more.

    I'm starting to doubt that it'll be a game for me however. As one person already pointed out, it is starting to sound like a Planeside 2 game, with a fantasy theme. No PvE, no geargrind (I like gear upgrades, at least just a little bit would be nice). Though I do like other things Mark Jacobs mentions in the newest blogpost.
    He says about no PVE geargrind. You will have RvR gear progression and updates! It is a must. Also, he said that there will be possibility to become a full time crafter, being dedicated to it, so there must be a gear progress and it will have many maany tiers
    Last edited by Slaughty8; 2013-02-07 at 05:17 PM.

  10. #50
    Pit Lord Worgoblin's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm sure you'll be able to constantly upgrade your gear. It just won't come from PvE, but RvR and crafting instead.

  11. #51
    I am Murloc! SirRobin's Avatar
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    Have always been impressed with Mark's character, but WAR was such a mess. I hope this one goes better for him.
    Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
    Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
    Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
    And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.

  12. #52
    A new blogpost
    http://citystateentertainment.com/2013/02/foundational-principle-2-rvr-isnt-the-end-game-its-the-only-game/
    Some quotes:
    (...) there are no drops of powerful items from NPCs. Secondly, to make sure that the first point is followed, let’s just say that there are no NPC drops at all and damn few NPCs.
    (...) You will get rewards for killing other players, other players’ helpers and some stuff in the world but it won’t be gear and we will also not offer tokens.
    (...) “Okay, not bad. How about stuff like leveling combat-type skills?” Well, that’s even easier. Our progression systems will be based solely on the activities that you are participating in directly (“Die Die. Kill you all. Make you suffer!”) or (“Heal Heal. Heal you all. Make you whole!”) or simply by otherwise helping out in RvR, even if you aren’t very good at it. The reward/leveling systems are a lot more complicated than that and I’ll talk about them in a separate post entitled “Level me up Snotty” coming soon to this blog and man oh man, will that post stir up some interesting reactions. Know that I’m a fan of “You are what you do” gameplay as well as a class-based system for this kind of game so…
    (...)As a RvR-focused game, players will need all sorts of items and the crafters will have to supply them. Whether it is arrows, armor, gold for the mint, etc., there’s always going to be somebody who needs something and that’s where crafting comes in. And if you don’t feel like crafting, well, the housing/buildings system are waiting for you. And if that isn’t enough there will be RvR missions that you can undertake that won’t involve sacking a keep but could still involve some RvR (in an open world, not instanced, k thx bye)

  13. #53
    Pit Lord Worgoblin's Avatar
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    I need to stop reading their blogs! I'm getting too pumped up for this game and I know it's gonna be awhile before it's released

  14. #54
    Mark Jacobs is right, the only way to make a decent PvP game might well be to ignore what the majority of players want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cakka View Post
    I really don't see what makes people nostalgic about DAoC and I say that as a person whose first MMO it was for years. It had extremely poorly balanced PvP that completely relied on running buffbots, the only way to really level was through a massive grind(I don't think people these days even know what a grind means), getting the ToA items relied on massive zerg raids for open world targets and/or camping extremely rare spawns, PvE fighting was for some classes was basically auto-attacking, etc. I liked it at the time because I didn't know of anything better but seriously that game was just bad.
    Slow down a little:

    • You generally needed 1 buffbot per group (8 players). That wasn't too bad. Yes, they sucked for soloers, but DAoC has always been a group game.
    • The level grind was only in classic, and it was still better than what "modern" MMOs have because it actually fostered grouping, exploring dungeons, finding spots etc. instead of doing hundreds of "kill x, collect y" quests. Since SI you can get from LvL 1 to 50 in about 10 hours.
    • We did the entire ToA content with 8-10 people (with the exception of a handful of Masterlevel steps, for which there were nightly raid events). In Midgard (that means no Animist/Theurgist pet spam to reduce effective mob level). And yes, ToA was a big mistake. Mythic acknowledged that and tuned it down heavily (it's a shame that the classic servers died with WAR release).
    • Poorly balanced PvP? It's the only MMORPG that I'm aware of that actually has functioning PvP, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Worgoblin View Post
    I need to stop reading their blogs! I'm getting too pumped up for this game and I know it's gonna be awhile before it's released
    Hehehe, me too! It's not even march, we are faaaar far away from closed beta:P The only aspect I fear is the graphics and engine, no info on that.

  16. #56
    A new blogpost: http://citystateentertainment.com/20...l-principle-3/
    Some important quotes:
    (...)In CU, there will be no blinking lines to follow, maps will be very simplistic and non-interactive (except in certain locations) and players will need to learn the world’s terrain to have the best chance to succeed.
    (...)Again, a great feature for some games but in CU, we will have no auction house(though a commodities market *may* be an option due to the difference between gathered resources and crafted goods).Instead, crafters will control shops that they can run themselves or they can barter their goods in parts of towns that we have customized and optimized for that specific purpose. Player shops are not innovative of course but they will be crucial in helping to build a larger sense of community among our players. CU will also have ways that players/guilds can group together in order to sell their goods but still with in-game merchants, rather than having to sell it by themselves.
    (...)In CU, while we want our players to have as much flexibility as they can within our class-based system, we will leave it up to them to decide if a certain combination of skills/abilities is a good idea and then, for the most part, hold them to that decision. While players of CU will have limited access to respecs, they will be difficult to acquire except when made necessary by a major change to the character class, in which case the players will, of course, get a free class respec.
    Not bad not bad, good decisions. Old school all the way, however, lack of AH for items will longer the process of searching for an item.

  17. #57
    Pit Lord Worgoblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaughty8 View Post

    Not bad not bad, good decisions. Old school all the way, however, lack of AH for items will longer the process of searching for an item.
    Yeah, but it will also increase social interactions with your realm-mates. And top crafters will actually be able to make a name for themselves. I agree with all the points he touched on in that blog.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Worgoblin View Post
    Yeah, but it will also increase social interactions with your realm-mates. And top crafters will actually be able to make a name for themselves. I agree with all the points he touched on in that blog.
    Aye, after all, this game is aimed at the small playerbase with possibility to make a name, so sooner or later we will know the best crafters, commanders, fighters etc I love that. I love individual fame, hate "guild fame" or "team fame", probably because I am an individualist + "Lone wolf of the group". More and more I can't wait for March and kickstarter There are no products like that, of course, e-sports have those individual fames but at what cost and also...it's not the same. In CU you can be "casual" crafeter and be known and respected by anyone. The same with every role. That's the point.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Slaughty8 View Post
    Old school all the way, however, lack of AH for items will longer the process of searching for an item.
    They could have a system similar to the DAoC housing system, possibly a bulletin-board where you search for the item and it tells you what stalls have them/the ability to make them and then you go there in person.

  20. #60
    I must say I just read all the blog posts and they do touch on many interesting issues I've taken to heart over the years.

    It's ambitious but I think he is really on to something. Modern MMOs have become too convenient and anti-social for their own sake. A rough world fosters community...a harmless one destroys it.

    However I'm skeptical about pulling off a "low budget" MMO. I'm not sure it's really possible on the level we've come to expect. And mass player combat is extremely difficult to manage.
    Last edited by Dee-Jay Delicious; 2013-02-13 at 06:20 PM.

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