BM Rotation: Help?

[Rhaze48]

So I was reading up on EJ and it seems BM is back in a place where it almost has a rotation...

Priority queue for BM is:
^SrS>KC>[L75>L60>L90]>KS>AS>CoS
The talents may shift around a bit dependant on specific choice, and with 9 combinations of talents from those 3 levels, you will have to sim for yourself whether putting one ahead of the other is a worthwhile dps gain. I am making the assumption of L90 being Glaive Toss and L60 being Dire Beast for most, in which case the above is correct.

Now unlike previously we are actually in a position of being able to approximate a rotation this time around. Namely in a 6 second cycle we have a few permutations of what to do.
At 0 haste they look like this outside of BW+RF.
1) KC, CoS, 3xInstants
2) KC, 2xCoS, 1xInstant
These 2 are the base, looking at focus fire we get the following additions:
3) KC, Focus Fire, 2xCoS, 1xInstant
4) KC, 2xCoS, 2xInstant

All cycles can be completed in any order (apart from KC being either first or last, depending on how you look at it), except cycle number 3, since using a full focus fire speeds up the CoS enough to have 2xCoS and 2xinstants, but only if FF is used before the CoS in the cycle - I suggest that FF be used immediately following KC.
The above cycles are listed at 0 haste. The reason for this is that the breakpoints in haste, where they allow us to "do more" in a 6 second cycle is respectively 33% and 100% haste in the non FF cycles, and 3% and 70% in the FF hasted cycles. There is a benefit of the first ~3% haste which we probably can't shed anyway, as they make the cycle tighter if we don't have the 10% attack speed buff - if we do have the 10% attack speed buff, we just have a bit of room in the rotation - but not enough to cast another shot.

So I am wondering if anyone here has devised such a set of ability uses so that one can actually show me on paper what order things are going to be used IN PRACTICE, I have tried and so far it's hit and miss...

First 6s: GT - KC - CoS - AS - CoS
Second 6s: AS - KC - CoS - AS - CoS
Third 6s: AS - GT - KC - CoS - CoS

So on and so forth, I am getting mixed results. This of course is not accounting for the Dire Beast and Bestial Wrath that is being used in among that set as well.

Any solid ideas for me? Pretend I am an idiot when explaining this :P

[Aertea]

Your examples look like you're delaying Kill Command. Never delay Kill Command.

KC has a 6 second CD. It tigers 1 GCD. This means you have 5 seconds of "filler" you can use.

Cobra Shot takes ~1.75 seconds of filler unhasted. Approximately 1.5 seconds with Haste. This is important because it means a large haste effect (RF, FF, Hero) are the difference between treating a pair of cobras as 4 seconds or 3 seconds.

Anything on the GCD takes 1 second.

You do rough math to figure out how to spend the next 5 seconds in a way that results in you having at least 45 focus. You do this while taking into account the priority of your cooldowns.

[Zachdavis]

start off with serpent sting , then kill command, then arcane shot till kill command is up, if you need forcus use cobra shot. Never, ever delay Kill command. Your Cobra shot will refresh your serpent sting. Also you Bestial wrath when up

[Rhaze48]

Your examples look like you're delaying Kill Command. Never delay Kill Command.

KC has a 6 second CD. It tigers 1 GCD. This means you have 5 seconds of "filler" you can use.

Cobra Shot takes ~1.75 seconds of filler unhasted. Approximately 1.5 seconds with Haste. This is important because it means a large haste effect (RF, FF, Hero) are the difference between treating a pair of cobras as 4 seconds or 3 seconds.

Anything on the GCD takes 1 second.

You do rough math to figure out how to spend the next 5 seconds in a way that results in you having at least 45 focus. You do this while taking into account the priority of your cooldowns.

So here is an interesting question, I am used to playing a Blood DK where waiting and doing nothing is sometimes part of the game. I never thought for a DPS that would be an issue, but are you saying it is better to KC, GT, AS then just wait for KC again while Auto-Attacking?

[Regen]

Anytime you're not doing anything as a dps is almost* always a dps loss and I believe such is the case with hunter. If you have the focus, and more than half a second to spare, do something.

[Aertea]

So here is an interesting question, I am used to playing a Blood DK where waiting and doing nothing is sometimes part of the game. I never thought for a DPS that would be an issue, but are you saying it is better to KC, GT, AS then just wait for KC again while Auto-Attacking?

So you're asking is doing nothing better than doing something? No. If all you did was KC GT AS, you'd be left with 3 seconds of unused filler time. Hunters don't have significant gaps in their rotation. Any time you have at least 1 full GCD you should be casting something.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

yes BM+SV do have sort of a rotation/priority/constraints thing, that has been there for a long time.
we try to fill the 5seconds in between our signiture shots as well as possible.
assuming 1.75sec Cobra casttime (unhasted) this may be:
1x Cobra + 3x Instants = 4.75sec, which leaves with a small hole (positivly speaking: tolerance), which is about as good as it gets.
2x Cobra + 2x Instants = 5.5sec. This delays by 0.5s, but using 1 Instant less leaves you with 0.5sec where youre doing nothing, which is bad (i'd say: worse)

what you never want to happens is something like:
"I'm out of focus after the KC, lets reg some!" Cobrashot Cobrashot
"lala, now i have te focus! lets spend some" Arcane Arcane
and then you're "fuck, KC CD up, but no focus, first have to do another Cobra"
that's what should never happen. you should get used to the base stuff you can do in between 2 KCs, and should have the feeling when you should use what. we don't really have proccs (appart from Invigoration that can sometimes screw you a bit), that means you can and should know what you're casting the next 5seconds the moment you push KC.
just be aware, and get used to how moch focus allows for what! in the end handling focus correctly is all what it is about :-)

for example if you're on 0 focus, you can go 3x Cobra, to have high focus for the next 5secs where you can then use 3x Instant + 1x Cobra.
And 2x Cobra + 2x Instant is focus negative, so you should only use that when you have allready got focus leftover after the previous KC.

[Rhaze48]

So when you speak about not delaying KC you don't mean the .5s it will take me to finish casting a CoS?...

---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 10:54 AM ----------

yes BM+SV do have sort of a rotation/priority/constraints thing, that has been there for a long time.
we try to fill the 5seconds in between our signiture shots as well as possible.
assuming 1.75sec Cobra casttime (unhasted) this may be:
1x Cobra + 3x Instants = 4.75sec, which leaves with a small hole (positivly speaking: tolerance), which is about as good as it gets.
2x Cobra + 2x Instants = 5.5sec. This delays by 0.5s, but using 1 Instant less leaves you with 0.5sec where youre doing nothing, which is bad (i'd say: worse)

what you never want to happens is something like:
"I'm out of focus after the KC, lets reg some!" Cobrashot Cobrashot
"lala, now i have te focus! lets spend some" Arcane Arcane
and then you're "fuck, KC CD up, but no focus, first have to do another Cobra"
that's what should never happen. you should get used to the base stuff you can do in between 2 KCs, and should have the feeling when you should use what. we don't really have proccs (appart from Invigoration that can sometimes screw you a bit), that means you can and should know what you're casting the next 5seconds the moment you push KC.
just be aware, and get used to how moch focus allows for what! in the end handling focus correctly is all what it is about :-)

for example if you're on 0 focus, you can go 3x Cobra, to have high focus for the next 5secs where you can then use 3x Instant + 1x Cobra.
And 2x Cobra + 2x Instant is focus negative, so you should only use that when you have allready got focus leftover after the previous KC.

Perfect, ty.

[Aertea]

So when you speak about not delaying KC you don't mean the .5s it will take me to finish casting a CoS?...

Once a shot is underway, canceling it is likely just as bad as delaying the KC. If you have a cobra shot casting when KC comes off CD, it means you already failed to plan the previous 5 seconds correctly. It does happen occasionally, but minimizing the occurrence is key to maximizing your DPS.

[Saegno]

So here is an interesting question, I am used to playing a Blood DK where waiting and doing nothing is sometimes part of the game. I never thought for a DPS that would be an issue, but are you saying it is better to KC, GT, AS then just wait for KC again while Auto-Attacking?

Welcome to the world of Assassination Rogues. The majority of our rotation is staring at the energy bar waiting for it to hit a certain point.