1. #1
    Mechagnome a C e's Avatar
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    Did they revert 5.2 DK changes??

    Almost everything was mentioned that was changed except DKays ?
    Is it possible that they are reverting all of those amazing changes?
    "It is always darkest just before the dawn " ~Thomas Fuller

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire
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    Yes, they have to maintain dks as an OP class. So don't worry

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Intoxicated View Post
    Yes, they have to maintain dks as an OP class. So don't worry
    except dks go down like cheap hookers if melee even look at them wrong, they are not getting any survivability fixes.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  4. #4
    Mechagnome a C e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intoxicated View Post
    Yes, they have to maintain dks as an OP class. So don't worry
    Dkays are far from being OP right now, in patch 5.0-5.1 we had warriors, shadow priests, ferals and mages. They are only currently good in BGs and RBGs but they are not that competitive in arena tournaments.
    "It is always darkest just before the dawn " ~Thomas Fuller

  5. #5
    Uhh.. what? The official forums still has the 5.2 notes that look the same. Im guessing you mean on the ptr? (Im not on it so I dunno)

    And btw unholy dks are most likely going to be one of the most op classes in 5.2. So tired of hearing about dks non-existent survivability issues (in 5.2 at the VERY least). And how is the conversion change not a survivability fix? Low cost second wind whenever they want it thats even stronger in blood presence?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    except dks go down like cheap hookers if melee even look at them wrong, they are not getting any survivability fixes.
    They don't need survivability changes. The dk's crying about being squishy don't have blood presence on their action bars.

    Conversion + blood presence in 5.2 easily competes with second wind + defensive stance in its live iteration.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    They don't need survivability changes. The dk's crying about being squishy don't have blood presence on their action bars.

    Conversion + blood presence in 5.2 easily competes with second wind + defensive stance in its live iteration.
    First of all that's not going to save you from a rogue training you all day witch they will, and if rogues go live the way they are now on ptr we are all in for a long season
    Last edited by Rgthreex; 2013-02-06 at 01:08 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    They don't need survivability changes. The dk's crying about being squishy don't have blood presence on their action bars.

    Conversion + blood presence in 5.2 easily competes with second wind + defensive stance in its live iteration.
    i'm sorry, no, you are wrong.
    second wind is resource positive, conversion is resource negative. blood pres is in no way comparable to current iteration def stance in its capacity for passive reduction. it might help a little, but its not enough, and active abilities like conversion as just generally not as good as passive abilities like second wind when it comes to survivability right now. further more warriors have in addition to second wind+def stance a plethora of very strong defensive cooldowns. dk's defensive cooldowns are rather weak, particularly against melee.

    and it doesn't fix their vulnerability to silences, stuns, general mobility issues and lack of hard cc.
    dks are pretty much limited to playing with holy paladins right now because they are about the only thing that can keep them alive and mobile long enough for them to do their unspeakable amounts of cleave damage thing.

    in fact, you will be hard pressured to find a dk who isn't playing TSG. which is pretty much running off general warrior stupidity and holy paladin's cc chain.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  9. #9
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rgthreex View Post
    First of all that's not going to save you from a rogue training you all day witch they will, and if rogues go live the way they are now on ptr we are all in for a long season
    Lol if you're an Unholy DK specced into Death's Advance, a rogue is like fighting a season 5 Warrior without juggernaut.

    I almost feel invincible on my DK on the PTR. The only classes that have a chance against an Unholy DK are Demo locks, Hunters, Ferals, Retribution Paladins.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    They don't need survivability changes. The dk's crying about being squishy don't have blood presence on their action bars.

    Conversion + blood presence in 5.2 easily competes with second wind + defensive stance in its live iteration.
    yeah cause dks can still put out huge amounts of damage in bloodpress with conversion up right?... right?

  11. #11
    Mechagnome a C e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    They don't need survivability changes. The dk's crying about being squishy don't have blood presence on their action bars.

    Conversion + blood presence in 5.2 easily competes with second wind + defensive stance in its live iteration.
    conversion depletes our runic power which can be used for our other damaging, utility and survivability. having a high up time of conversion can be a burden to dkays in terms of damage and utility.
    "It is always darkest just before the dawn " ~Thomas Fuller

  12. #12
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rerecros View Post
    yeah cause dks can still put out huge amounts of damage in bloodpress with conversion up right?... right?
    uhhh yeah they actually can. Unholy has the advantage of playing defensive while still having offensive pressure. Its basically a plate wearing affliction warlock without the CC.

    Conversion is only 5 runic power, per second. You can toggle it on/off at any health level. That's what makes it more powerful than second wind. Second Wind only works close to execute range with the benefit of not costing a resource. However, Warriors don't have the ability to break stuns like DK's, absorb magic and they can't move faster than every melee in the game. Damage reduction abilities like shield wall/demoralizing Banner only delay the inevitable where as breaking stuns and avoiding burst damage completely are superior mechanics.

    Dk's didn't need a survivability buff. There are ways to avoid damage other than relying on defensive cool downs which is something that good DK's can work with. The only thing Blizzard needed to do with DK's is to buff the ghouls health.

  13. #13
    Ryan, I'll have to disagree with you on dk's not needed improvements to the mechanics of their defenses. Yes, they have a lot of potent get-out-of-jail-free cards but because of that their defenses ARE lacking.

    I could honestly be agreeable to a buff to IBF to 40%.

    Warriors have their own problems that were masked by random op crap thrown on top to cover them up so a direct comparison isn't all that informative.

    Except of course the fact that blood presence + conversion goes completely against Blizzard's reasoning for nerfing defensive stance + second wind.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-02-06 at 03:25 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  14. #14
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Ryan, I'll have to disagree with you on dk's not needed improvements to the mechanics of their defenses. Yes, they have a lot of potent get-out-of-jail-free cards but because of that their defenses ARE lacking.

    I could honestly be agreeable to a buff to IBF to 40%.

    Warriors have their own problems that were masked by random op crap thrown on top to cover them up so a direct comparison isn't all that informative.

    Except of course the fact that blood presence + conversion goes completely against Blizzard's reasoning for nerfing defensive stance + second wind.
    Yeah but IBF doesn't need a buff to 40% just because its immune to stuns for 12 seconds. This game is balanced around classes getting blown up in stuns. The only reason DK's look terrible in survivability right now is because they're all playing Frost and specced into chillblains. When Unholy becomes the arena spec in 5.2, people are going to change their opinion about DK's.

    Not to mention DK's have access to Desecrated Ground which can also break stuns. I'm not saying DK's are completely invincible, I'm just okay with DK's actually having a weakness. If you give DK's abilities that rival Shield Wall, you almost make them completely superior to Warriors. Different classes are different classes and they should be balanced around their strengths and weaknesses.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Yeah but IBF doesn't need a buff to 40% just because its immune to stuns for 12 seconds. This game is balanced around classes getting blown up in stuns. The only reason DK's look terrible in survivability right now is because they're all playing Frost and specced into chillblains. When Unholy becomes the arena spec in 5.2, people are going to change their opinion about DK's.

    Not to mention DK's have access to Desecrated Ground which can also break stuns. I'm not saying DK's are completely invincible, I'm just okay with DK's actually having a weakness. If you give DK's abilities that rival Shield Wall, you almost make them completely superior to Warriors. Different classes are different classes and they should be balanced around their strengths and weaknesses.
    I agree. If you want IBF at 40% then make it a 5 min cd that reduces damage dealt by 80% on top of that top compare to warriors.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Yeah but IBF doesn't need a buff to 40% just because its immune to stuns for 12 seconds. This game is balanced around classes getting blown up in stuns. The only reason DK's look terrible in survivability right now is because they're all playing Frost and specced into chillblains. When Unholy becomes the arena spec in 5.2, people are going to change their opinion about DK's.

    Not to mention DK's have access to Desecrated Ground which can also break stuns. I'm not saying DK's are completely invincible, I'm just okay with DK's actually having a weakness. If you give DK's abilities that rival Shield Wall, you almost make them completely superior to Warriors. Different classes are different classes and they should be balanced around their strengths and weaknesses.
    40 % IBF would be to too overpowered with the new changes.They may not seems that significant but the greatest buff was warriors being nerfed. A class shouldn't be strong in all aspects. We're supposed to be vulnerable to melees and our way to counter them is to out pressure them or kite with DA.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 12:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    except dks go down like cheap hookers if melee even look at them wrong, they are not getting any survivability fixes.
    Warriors are getting nerfed from their ridiculous position of overpowered god mode, that should be good enough. Ferals will be an issue thought becuase they're unstoppable, unkitable cats. -.-

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 12:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kidace View Post
    Dkays are far from being OP right now, in patch 5.0-5.1 we had warriors, shadow priests, ferals and mages. They are only currently good in BGs and RBGs but they are not that competitive in arena tournaments.
    I'm not saying that we don't need these buffs becuase we do, but not competative in tournaments? Anotherx wants a word with you.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    uhhh yeah they actually can. Unholy has the advantage of playing defensive while still having offensive pressure. Its basically a plate wearing affliction warlock without the CC.

    Conversion is only 5 runic power, per second. You can toggle it on/off at any health level. That's what makes it more powerful than second wind. Second Wind only works close to execute range with the benefit of not costing a resource. However, Warriors don't have the ability to break stuns like DK's, absorb magic and they can't move faster than every melee in the game. Damage reduction abilities like shield wall/demoralizing Banner only delay the inevitable where as breaking stuns and avoiding burst damage completely are superior mechanics.

    Dk's didn't need a survivability buff. There are ways to avoid damage other than relying on defensive cool downs which is something that good DK's can work with. The only thing Blizzard needed to do with DK's is to buff the ghouls health.
    No, no, no, just no...

    If you really think that warriors don't have better defenses and mobility than DKs, then I don't know what game you're playing. If you're implying that DKs move faster than every melee in the game, have you heard of feral druid? If you watched the Yaspresents tourney, you'd notice that warriors were the last priority on kill targets in pretty much every fight. They are virtually untrainable. That is enough proof alone to show that warriors have insane defenses for PvP in comparison to other classes. You talk about DKs breaking stuns when it's on a 3 min, maybe 1.5 min CD, and warriors have a plethora of defensive abilities, CC & interrupts, get out of jail cards like it's nothing in comparison to IBF and AMS. Really?? No one even takes conversion because it's not better than having death pact, and it won't be next patch either. Unless a DK has a lock or priest on their team, DKs are the #1 kill target in pretty much every fight, and it has been that way for a while now.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerflux View Post
    No, no, no, just no...

    If you really think that warriors don't have better defenses and mobility than DKs, then I don't know what game you're playing. If you're implying that DKs move faster than every melee in the game, have you heard of feral druid? If you watched the Yaspresents tourney, you'd notice that warriors were the last priority on kill targets in pretty much every fight. They are virtually untrainable. That is enough proof alone to show that warriors have insane defenses for PvP in comparison to other classes. You talk about DKs breaking stuns when it's on a 3 min, maybe 1.5 min CD, and warriors have a plethora of defensive abilities, CC & interrupts, get out of jail cards like it's nothing in comparison to IBF and AMS. Really?? No one even takes conversion because it's not better than having death pact, and it won't be next patch either. Unless a DK has a lock or priest on their team, DKs are the #1 kill target in pretty much every fight, and it has been that way for a while now.
    GG 5.2 not 5.1

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ProteinShake View Post
    GG 5.2 not 5.1
    IKR, over half the people talking in these forums about 5.2 changes are still living in 5.1.

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