1. #1

    Blizzard has no damn clue about rogues...

    So rogues are frequently complained as being almost as badly homogenized as the hunter class. I can respec and really aside from swaping out CD macros and main attacks (SS/FS for mut/dispatch for example) I really don't have to change my buttons at all. The last time I respeced for CMs going back to assassination it actually took me longer to respec because after those few changes I kept staring at my spell book convincing myself there actually were more changes that I had to make and that I'd missed them.

    So what are they actually changing? The latest round of ability pruning took out a passive than has never seen the light of day on a bar (although this is a good change and should make rogues better in pvp). And previously they took out rupture from combat which a lot of combat rogues already had stopped using anyways. Assassination and sub are still exactly the same and are relatively untouched aside from assassination losing SnD to a passive which on most fights was a button only pushed once anyways. They took away one of our major CDs which is kind of mean and which Verain I'm sure still is carrying around a personal vendetta against blizzard for. Yet with L100 talents they're giving us back another major CD... or a boring passive or an ability that will probably be used with the frequency of the cleave trinket from SoO.

    They've already turned around and reneged on a lot of changes they've made. Where most classes had lots of changes to them and various things being done the last rogue "change section" looked like it got the ol english teacher with a red pen treatment. Rogues are already the least played class in the game. They're the only pure dps melee class out there and as such they don't have that option to just go tank spec to get into places. They're arguably the worst pvp class atm (even though the 550 ilv boost helped a lot). Finding a CM run as a rogue is a tough sell to most groups. We're a melee in a ranged world. Any group out there with only ranged is just fine and in a lot of ways better. Any group with only melee will wipe over and over and over again and possibly not finish whatever they're doing.

    There's no incentive to play a rogue currently. Other classes with a desired off spec like tank or healer have a great way to que or get into pugs. Rogue's aren't really awesome at anything currently except for being extremely durable in pve (which is funny since they're really squishy in pvp how the fuck does that happen?). We aren't the highest damage, we aren't the best at AoE, we aren't the best at cleave, we aren't the best at burst. You'd think that as the only pure melee dps class we'd have something to offer in that. We'd have some niche where we could say "Yes! Rogues are the best at this!". Pvp as a rogue is frustrating at best. Where other classes like a warrior can just faceroll to victory most of the time rogues just feel incredibly impotent in pvp. I hardly ever in arena when I see another rogue que up think to myself "holy crap this is going to hurt" where as vs. an enhancement shaman it's like "holy crap watch out for their burst or they'll potentially one shot you".

    It seems to me that rogues are going to be in the exact same position they were in MoP in WoD with potentially even a lower representation. We're going to be under represented and have none of the talked about changes. I really hope that some how they make the rogue class a desired class to bring and even potentially the best at something. Give us some niche.

  2. #2
    There aren't a lot of changes, but some important things have happened that will make rogues very strong on the PvE side of things.

    First of all, combo points on the target. This is huge for quick target swapping, removing one of our biggest weaknesses in PvE.

    Second, the nerfs to ranged damage while moving. This change brings melee much closer to ranged in power once again.

    In PvE, rogues are not in a bad spot now, they're just kind of bland and annoying to level so their representation is low besides high end guilds (which generally have multiple rogues). The above two changes will make us a very strong class in PvE relative to now, despite few changes to the rogue class itself.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Warstar View Post
    Give us some niche.
    10/10

    MoP beta treatment must not hapen.

  4. #4
    I've given up on them realizing they need to seriously fix rogues for the time being.
    One day they will realize how stale the class has become and realize they gave away a ton of interesting things the defined rogues/ferals to other classes (sprint, vanish/stealth, combo points, stuns, auto-applied slows) and then we will get what warlocks got for Mists.

    But until that happens, I can really only see it getting worse.
    Unless we return to our origins during closed beta and once again become the class that is known for being extremely vocal and whining. In which case we might get at least a few interesting changes in for WoD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    There aren't a lot of changes, but some important things have happened that will make rogues very strong on the PvE side of things.

    First of all, combo points on the target. This is huge for quick target swapping, removing one of our biggest weaknesses in PvE.

    Second, the nerfs to ranged damage while moving. This change brings melee much closer to ranged in power once again.
    It's hard to be excited about a change like combo points on target. For the same reason it was hard to be excited about them finally fixing vanish after years of it not working correctly. Combo points it's something rogues have been complaining about for almost a decade, and Blizzard has been ignoring us the entire time--While at the same time giving better versions of the combo points system to other classes (Holy Power, Chi). It's something they had attempted to hotfix with talent, realized that because it was a hotfix for the class itself, it needed to be made baseline and then eventually gave up and decided to bring one of our out of date mechanics up to the level of other classes.

    Hard to really be super-excited-wow-thank-you-so-much about something like that.
    You tried too hard and now your post is shit. Never try too hard, the gamble isn't worth it. -Boubouille

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    I've given up on them realizing they need to seriously fix rogues for the time being.
    One day they will realize how stale the class has become and realize they gave away a ton of interesting things the defined rogues/ferals to other classes (sprint, vanish/stealth, combo points, stuns, auto-applied slows) and then we will get what warlocks got for Mists.

    But until that happens, I can really only see it getting worse.
    Unless we return to our origins during closed beta and once again become the class that is known for being extremely vocal and whining. In which case we might get at least a few interesting changes in for WoD.



    It's hard to be excited about a change like combo points on target. For the same reason it was hard to be excited about them finally fixing vanish after years of it not working correctly. Combo points it's something rogues have been complaining about for almost a decade, and Blizzard has been ignoring us the entire time--While at the same time giving better versions of the combo points system to other classes (Holy Power, Chi). It's something they had attempted to hotfix with talent, realized that because it was a hotfix for the class itself, it needed to be made baseline and then eventually gave up and decided to bring one of our out of date mechanics up to the level of other classes.

    Hard to really be super-excited-wow-thank-you-so-much about something like that.
    I'd say we're long overdue what warlocks got in Mists tbh.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    First of all, combo points on the target. This is huge for quick target swapping, removing one of our biggest weaknesses in PvE.
    With the redirect glyph this change is fixing the annoyingness of a extra gcd every swap but doesn't really "fix" a pve weakness as that glyph already mostly did that. It will be nice that we won't have to worry about those disappearing mobs that eat cp's anymore though. It will be a big change for pvp though.

    But as someone else already pointed out this is just updating us to what other classes already had.
    Last edited by wow; 2014-05-23 at 09:59 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Warstar View Post
    Give us some niche.
    While I get the need for a good rant every now and then, we've been discussing and griping about changes and the lack thereof plenty in this nice, 28-page long thread you're all familiar with. If you want to drop a long rant for the purpose of telling Blizzard they need to wake up, post it on their forums, please. Here, it can only really be responded to with "ya I agree with your blog post" or "STFU you're bad" as people tend to do.

    Since there isn't any discussion to take place here that isn't already covered in the thread linked above, I'm closing this before we get into the flames.

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