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  1. #221
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oblivionx View Post
    I can only speak for myself, but I hate liars and hypocrites. Just so happens a lot of that comes from one place.
    Liars suck. So do hypocrites though I admit I can be hypcritical at times and I don't like it. Sometimes it just comes out unintentionally.


    Since when is terrorism an act of war and not criminal behavior?

    We have a war on drugs too. Does that make drug trafficking an act of war?
    No but I'd say anything similar to Pearl Harbor is an Act of War IMO. I hate to say it but 9/11 was sort of a wake up call IMO.


    Yes, Bush did start it. Obama has expanded what Bush did even further. That makes it ok?
    Expanded what? Even then no not really and I don't think that is what he/she was saying.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  2. #222
    Scarab Lord Roose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oblivionx View Post
    I can only speak for myself, but I hate liars and hypocrites. Just so happens a lot of that comes from one place.
    You mean politicians, right?

  3. #223
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oblivionx View Post
    I can only speak for myself, but I hate liars and hypocrites. Just so happens a lot of that comes from one place.
    I take it you're fine with the GOP since they're just liars then?

  4. #224
    Scarab Lord Roose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron View Post
    No but I'd say anything similar to Pearl Harbor is an Act of War IMO. I hate to say it but 9/11 was sort of a wake up call IMO.
    The big difference is that JAPAN attacked us at Pearl Harbor. What country attacked us on 9/11? See the problem? They are hoping there are tons of people that feel like you and there are.

    Only wake up call from 9/11 is that we need better leadership and to stop terrorizing the middle east or they may just make it on to our soil.

  5. #225
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roose View Post
    The big difference is that JAPAN attacked us at Pearl Harbor. What country attacked us on 9/11? See the problem? They are hoping there are tons of people that feel like you and there are.

    Only wake up call from 9/11 is that we need better leadership and to stop terrorizing the middle east.
    Personally I felt the additional security measures for Airports was needed to. I do recall after 9/11 I was a bit paranoid on air travel afterwards.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  6. #226
    Banned Bakis's Avatar
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    Well Bush started it that is a fact.
    It is also a fact that during Obama the use of drones skyrocketed.
    The only non fact is wether or not Obama would have used any drones at all if Bush didn't open Pandoras Box or if Obama would open it.

    Either way every regulation, legislation, conduct whatever you want to call it flew out the window.
    Now any totalitarian regime will be able to murder dissidents, minorities as they see fit. One aspect is obivously if they have access to drones in a near future but the bigger one is that they got a wide open playing field since the US leadership has shown that every rule that took decades and world wars to agree on can be sidestepped by labeling the other side 'illegal combatants', 'enhanced interrogation' whatnot.

    This is what scare the shit out of me personally.
    Last edited by Bakis; 2013-02-06 at 08:34 PM.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Bush
    We're back to blaming Bush already?
    The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities.

  8. #228
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oblivionx View Post
    We're back to blaming Bush already?
    We're back to not blaming him?
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  9. #229
    Banned Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oblivionx View Post
    We're back to blaming Bush already?
    Read the complete post and also acknowledge facts.

  10. #230
    Nothing to see here. Presidents throughout all time have done this. This is nothing new. Just because we have a name for it and a document changes nothing. You are naive if you think that this is the first president to ever have an american citizen killed. I find it it somewhat comical that any one thinks you can control your world. Things will be done to you regardless of the law or what you want. You are not in control. We sit here and try and discuss things reasonably and sensibly, but in reality it doesnt matter; the world is not a reasonable or sensible place. Any president, republican or democrat will and has used this power. The difference may only be whether or not hey admit to using this power. Secret, bad thing happen, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Stop trying to make sense of the world.

  11. #231
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luuth View Post
    Nothing to see here. Presidents throughout all time have done this. This is nothing new. Just because we have a name for it and a document changes nothing. You are naive if you think that this is the first president to ever have an american citizen killed. I find it it somewhat comical that any one thinks you can control your world. Things will be done to you regardless of the law or what you want. You are not in control. We sit here and try and discuss things reasonably and sensibly, but in reality it doesnt matter; the world is not a reasonable or sensible place. Any president, republican or democrat will and has used this power. The difference may only be whether or not hey admit to using this power. Secret, bad thing happen, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Stop trying to make sense of the world.

    Care to prove such a thing and fear monger.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Read the complete post and also acknowledge facts.
    I'm pretty sure if Al Gore was president and circumstances were similar drones would have been put into action.

    You could say "Bill Clinton didn't use drones" and you might think there is a point to that, except for the fact that drones weren't technologically advanced enough for the possibility.

    I'm all for drone strikes, I'm all for them on the people they are using them on. I don't like political double speak and how the left wing has mostly caved in on itself for "their guy".
    The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Clampz View Post
    Anyways, there's this thing called investigative journalism
    Investigative journalism ceased to exist a long time ago in this country, especially when it comes to investigating the left.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Daishi View Post
    Investigative journalism ceased to exist a long time ago in this country, especially when it comes to investigating the left.
    Truer things are rarely said.
    The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities.

  15. #235
    Banned Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron View Post
    Care to prove such a thing and fear monger.
    Actually I agree that it has happened before and in most western countries. Problem is that now it is systematic with a policy included.
    It is on an entirely new scale never seen before. Sure there are I think 3 events (that we know of) but with the vague criterias, short timespan among other things - that point to a paradigm shift on how it is viewed upon by the administration.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by oblivionx View Post
    I'm pretty sure if Al Gore was president and circumstances were similar drones would have been put into action.

    You could say "Bill Clinton didn't use drones" and you might think there is a point to that, except for the fact that drones weren't technologically advanced enough for the possibility.

    I'm all for drone strikes, I'm all for them on the people they are using them on. I don't like political double speak and how the left wing has mostly caved in on itself for "their guy".
    Wrong. Al Gore said he would NOT have gone to war. It's not just they went to war. They went on bad information. It was almost for nothing. We have not one thing to show for overthrowing them expect billions racked in debt. You cannot play the "He would done same" without any information to back that up. In fact Obama when he took office said he was intent in closing Gitmo.

    Fact is Bush won and this is what he did. He created this by ignoring UN telling them Iraq had WMD. He tossed us into this war which like war on drugs almost un-winable because the more we upset the Iraq people the more we make them hate us.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by FusedMass View Post
    Wrong. Al Gore said he would NOT have gone to war. It's not just they went to war. They went on bad information. It was almost for nothing..
    Yah and in hindsight you can say anything.
    The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities.

  18. #238
    Banned Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oblivionx View Post
    I'm pretty sure if Al Gore was president and circumstances were similar drones would have been put into action.

    You could say "Bill Clinton didn't use drones" and you might think there is a point to that, except for the fact that drones weren't technologically advanced enough for the possibility.

    I'm all for drone strikes, I'm all for them on the people they are using them on. I don't like political double speak and how the left wing has mostly caved in on itself for "their guy".
    I'm not saying they would not, I'm saying that it happened during these two past administrations and the shift in how war is waged has taken an entirely new turn.
    The implications of them are included in the rest of my post that you choose not to quote
    Here it is:

    Either way every regulation, legislation, conduct whatever you want to call it flew out the window.
    Now any totalitarian regime will be able to murder dissidents, minorities as they see fit. One aspect is obivously if they have access to drones in a near future but the bigger one is that they got a wide open playing field since the US leadership has shown that every rule that took decades and world wars to agree on can be sidestepped by labeling the other side 'illegal combatants', 'enhanced interrogation' whatnot.

    This is what scare the shit out of me personally.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Either way every regulation, legislation, conduct whatever you want to call it flew out the window.
    Now any totalitarian regime will be able to murder dissidents, minorities as they see fit. One aspect is obivously if they have access to drones in a near future but the bigger one is that they got a wide open playing field since the US leadership has shown that every rule that took decades and world wars to agree on can be sidestepped by labeling the other side 'illegal combatants', 'enhanced interrogation' whatnot.

    This is what scare the shit out of me personally.
    Yah that part of your post I totally agree with.

    Even the Bush opened Pandora's box part, with one exception... We were attacked.
    The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by oblivionx View Post
    Yah and in hindsight you can say anything.
    Exactly. Let's focus on what did happen and not what could have.

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