The great item squish is coming

[Cotech]

You are the one being that thing you call others. Your computer can handle bigger numbers than you can think off. The problem is Blizzard using the data type Int instead os Int64. If they change it to Int64, they can get numbers you will never ever see in WoW without a problem.

So instead of trying to bash others with things you have no clue about and insulting them, you should thing about the thigns you are saying because not only they are wrong, but you are behaving like a troll.

Yeah because changing to Int64 will happen over night right? I can't even imagine what kinda outrage would start when they have the servers down for days maybe weeks on end when people cry and spam the official forums when their server has been offline for an hour too long. I honestly think that WoW might die in the process if they shut down for that long, people will simply start to do something else and most won't return. Doesn't seem like a smart way to go about it really.

Why do you guys even care about the big numbers? It's only important when it comes down to the relationship between current dmg and the healthpool of your target. Why have mobs with nearly 2 billion HP so that people can have room for their 150-200k dps?

[Crashdummy]

To us they are just numbers but not when you talk about systems.

When they first announced the possible item squish they mentioned that the big numbers have a huge impact on clients and back end systems to calculate it all. From a database design perspective as well when fields are created with a specified maximum field size that cannot be increased afterwards.

Wow is running on code that was programmed 8 years ago, some of it is easily adjustable but other things are not. (the player backpack is a classic example of something like this that is not adjustable)

GC said in his blog that sooner or later the numbers will have to be squished for technical reasons, either by going "mega damage" approach or doing a proper squish. We may not be there yet but its coming close.

The systems can handle it. Again, it will mean that Blizzard need to change their code from using Int to uising Int64 in ther number variables, the clinet systems wont have too much overhead, processing power is nto what is restricting things in todays development, its graphical calculations the limiting factor.

About the database comment, you are severely outdated. Database structures have been able to be changed even with content inside the tables for over a decade already.



---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 10:25 AM ----------

Why is this an issue? Why do you believe there are no solutions even if it were?

Can you elaborate your question a bit further?

Why is what an issue? The fact that you cant solo thinsg as you did? Because you are taking away things people do in the game to not get bored just to pelase some people that dont want to look at big numbers.

About the solutions, i'm sorry, but i dont want Blizzard to spend development time into re tuning every single old content to be as soloable as it is today (not more, not less) just because some people are scared of big numbers. Also, any solution will introduced bugs, exploits and all the unexpected things that come with big changes.

Making big changes if its nto completely nececsary is bad.

---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 10:27 AM ----------

Yeah because changing to Int64 will happen over night right? I can't even imagine what kinda outrage would start when they have the servers down for days maybe weeks on end when people cry and spam the official forums when their server has been offline for an hour too long. I honestly think that WoW might die in the process if they shut down for that long, people will simply start to do something else and most won't return. Doesn't seem like a smart way to go about it really.

Why do you guys even care about the big numbers? It's only important when it comes down to the relationship between current dmg and the healthpool of your target. Why have mobs with nearly 2 billion HP so that people can have room for their 150-200k dps?

Yes, changing Int to Int64 is a very easy change that can be done overnight and will only require you to download a path, it will not mean weeks of servers down. It can be easily done in a typical maintanance day.

I dont know what you imagine such a change implies, but you clearly know nothing about the subject.

The problem is not in the relation between you and the CURRENT content, that relation WILL stay as it is today, will nto change.

the problem is in the relation between you and OLD content. That WILL change, your power in relation to old content will be significantly lower, which will lead to soloing old content being incrasingly harder and in many cases impossible.

[Zoator]

I wouldnt mind an item squish, stats are getting to absurd numbers (18Ks of Str, and then you see your Agi, and its at 160... :/).

[Thyranne]

To us they are just numbers but not when you talk about systems.

When they first announced the possible item squish they mentioned that the big numbers have a huge impact on clients and back end systems to calculate it all. From a database design perspective as well when fields are created with a specified maximum field size that cannot be increased afterwards.

ALTER TABLE <table> MODIFY COLUMN <column> <new type>

Where do I get my prize?

Wow is running on code that was programmed 8 years ago, some of it is easily adjustable but other things are not. (the player backpack is a classic example of something like this that is not adjustable)

Thats why we do a refactory. Yes I know it may take a long time.

GC said in his blog that sooner or later the numbers will have to be squished for technical reasons, either by going "mega damage" approach or doing a proper squish. We may not be there yet but its coming close.

GC is not a programmer.

[Adramalech]

I said it before and I'll say it again: even though I don't exactly like the idea of a squish, I'm ok with it as long as they squish every single piece of content along with our stats, to preserve our relative power when compared to NPCs.

[Moosie]

Why are numbers a problem? No-one was ever moaning about them during cata. Now everyone is up in arms about it. When you look at numbers from cata, when your typical dps was pulling around 45k, sometimes 50k. The numbers then with your typical dps pulling around 90-95k, it doesn't seem that big of a jump. If your normal dps is pulling 150k during the last patch of this expansion I will be surprised. It still doesn't really matter that much. Most people can distinguish 6 digit numbers easily, so if you are doing 150k, or 850k, it's not really that hard to see.

The stuff about it been a problem on the game side of things, total crap. Look at fights like wind lord where pulling 1million crits is not a problem. The game is perfectly fine, I have heard of tanks pulling 10million+ executes on HC.

[Ryme]

Can you elaborate your question a bit further?

Why is what an issue? The fact that you cant solo thinsg as you did? Because you are taking away things people do in the game to not get bored just to pelase some people that dont want to look at big numbers.

About the solutions, i'm sorry, but i dont want Blizzard to spend development time into re tuning every single old content to be as soloable as it is today (not more, not less) just because some people are scared of big numbers. Also, any solution will introduced bugs, exploits and all the unexpected things that come with big changes.

Making big changes if its nto completely nececsary is bad.

Sure, I don't believe that not being able to solo bosses you were not originally intended to be able to solo to be an issue. It's unfortunate that this has happened, but hey, them's the facts.

If this does indeed turn out to be something that is an issue, it's very, very easily fixed. The tech is already there, you see it on the PTR; item upscaling. Simply upscale your gear on outdated bosses like they do on the PTR when you enter the instance, done.

[Theodon]

People arguing against the squish aren't looking at what continually inflating stats and item levels are going to do to PvP. A person entering PvP in starter gear late in a season is going to end up being what we have now when a level 85 goes up against a level 90, except they will be be the same level.

[sac]

i wasnt ok with it because finaly my class outside of a gimmik fight was hitting for over 100k...yes last expansion shamans highest crits werent 100k..they were around 80k.

[Thyranne]

Yeah because changing to Int64 will happen over night right? I can't even imagine what kinda outrage would start when they have the servers down for days maybe weeks on end when people cry and spam the official forums when their server has been offline for an hour too long. I honestly think that WoW might die in the process if they shut down for that long, people will simply start to do something else and most won't return. Doesn't seem like a smart way to go about it really.

Why do you guys even care about the big numbers? It's only important when it comes down to the relationship between current dmg and the healthpool of your target. Why have mobs with nearly 2 billion HP so that people can have room for their 150-200k dps?

So, you are saying that they program something and put it on live servers without testing? Ever heard of PTR?

[Aerodyne]

I know i would just quit if they did the squish. I play MMO's to see my characters power progress. Suddenly having my numbers drop a huge margin because some people cant handle numbers they can't count on one hand would suck. I suggest to those people who want the squish play one of the plethora of new MMO's. You get the small numbers you want and no one else has to be forced to suffer a squish.

So why don't you quit every time you level up? Your combat ratings are static so your crit chance and hit chance etc. go down. WoW is one of the only games where you actually get weaker when you level up, until you replace your gear. THAT is weird, and is a direct biproduct of this crazy issue. (Ratings used to be flat percentages if you didn't know, wouldn't have the same problem with those).

[Crashdummy]

Sure, I don't believe that not being able to solo bosses you were not originally intended to be able to solo to be an issue. It's unfortunate that this has happened, but hey, them's the facts.

If this does indeed turn out to be something that is an issue, it's very, very easily fixed. The tech is already there, you see it on the PTR; item upscaling. Simply upscale your gear on outdated bosses like they do on the PTR when you enter the instance, done.

So your position is that you dont think we should be able to solo Molten Core Ragnaros, ok, i can respect that, although i dont share your view. I think it doesnt make sense that we cant solo content released 8 years ago.

Its is not easily fixed, one you do the squish, upscalling your gear to ilvl 700 for olc raids will probably not be possible, adn they wont keep two item scales for upcoming gear.

[skitzy129]

I'm opposed to a squish. I don't see the need and feel it's a waste of time and resources.

[Crashdummy]

People arguing against the squish aren't looking at what continually inflating stats and item levels are going to do to PvP. A person entering PvP in starter gear late in a season is going to end up being what we have now when a level 85 goes up against a level 90, except they will be be the same level.

This is incorrect.

Yes, the gap may some day be that big, but the impact of such a gap will be negligible in relation to both characters health and power.

The PVP problem between newly geared people and top geared ones have been in WoW forever.

People in full Naxx gear owning people in blue dungeon in vanilla in 2 shots was a problem at that time.

[Ryme]

Its is not easily fixed, one you do the squish, upscalling your gear to ilvl 700 for olc raids will probably not be possible, adn they wont keep two item scales for upcoming gear.

Why not, though?

[Jaojin]

They tested the item squish before but scrapped it, they said classes felt too weak.

Except, that's not what they said at all.

They said: Everything is in place, all they have to do is the equivalent of flipping a switch and it's done. The didn't implement it because of the changes to the talents and some classes were so drastic that adding the squish also would feel overwhelming (like a completely different game). So they put it on HOLD for a later expansion, probably the next one.

It won't ever be released as a patch without a new expansion, so you won't see it til 6.0. But it is not scrapped, it is hovering in the rafters waiting to descend.

[Kalium]

If they were to do an item squish how do you feel about a level squish as well. For instance: Vanilla WoW 1-50, TBC 51-55, WotLK 56-60, Cata 61-65, MoP 66-70.

Just a thought

[Ellixen]

Why is it so hard to imagine that they just lower numbers across the board say 50%, or even 75%, one by lowering EVERYTHING based off of a percentage, it's exactly the same, we just see less numbers.

And yes we'd still be able to roflstomp solo kara (because you're a hardcore if you do) because all raids and dungeons would also be lowered by the same percentage hence the "EVERYTHING" i put in

[Outofmana]

Really? Do we need a new thread every single day about a different idea that COULD be blizzard anouncement? Maybe stick all the ideas in 1 single thread, every day I read ITEM SQUISH COMING, CROSSREALM GUILDS!, BLABLA, BLABLABLA! and they are all like "50% chance that this will be the blizzard anouncement!"............. -_____-

[skitzy129]

Why is it so hard to imagine that they just lower numbers across the board say 50%, or even 75%, one by lowering EVERYTHING based off of a percentage, it's exactly the same, we just see less numbers.

And yes we'd still be able to roflstomp solo kara (because you're a hardcore if you do) because all raids and dungeons would also be lowered by the same percentage hence the "EVERYTHING" i put in

What is the real point in wasting time to do this though?

Just because some people think numbers are too big? There are just as many that object and feel numbers are fine.

There's no upside to doing a squish. There's just no point. Nobody gains or loses anything, and it's just a waste of time better spent elsewhere.