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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by xindykawai View Post
    i frankly hope its the unannounced feature everybody is talking about..
    I hope so too; I am hoping it's unlikely, as they know that putting it in would annoy a tonne of people and cause a whole load of unnecessary drama... not to mention the if it's not broke don't fix it thing. Then again they seem to feel CRZ is the best thing since sliced bread, and a lot of us hate that with a passion, so I wouldn't put it past them.

  2. #282
    From a technical point of view... Which are the limits the numbers can go up until we begin to have performance issues? I mean, when integer can no longer be integer, and the such?

    I don't really think "the sky is the limit". I have worked with simulations for a while and there were times that we had to use huge numbers and our simulation became severely gimped, even with good hardware.

    Don't really know if that would be an issue in WoW though... Somebody?

  3. #283
    i hope the item squish will be coming with the next expansion.

    i also hope that they somehow accompany it with some lore though, simply reducing the numbers and item levels would feel staged and fake.

    lore wise, best opportunity for that would have been cataclysm, where deathwing tears apart the known world and people have to start from "scratch" (more or less" meaning with less powerful weapons and armors etc.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Madruga View Post
    From a technical point of view... Which are the limits the numbers can go up until we begin to have performance issues? I mean, when integer can no longer be integer, and the such?

    I don't really think "the sky is the limit". I have worked with simulations for a while and there were times that we had to use huge numbers and our simulation became severely gimped, even with good hardware.

    Don't really know if that would be an issue in WoW though... Somebody?
    For signed 32 bits: 2147483648 (2^31);
    For unsigned 32 bits: 4294967296 (2^32);

    For signed 64 bits: 9223372036854775808 (2^63);
    For unsigned 64 bits: 18446744073709551616 (2^64);

  5. #285
    Mechagnome Televators's Avatar
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    I'd like to see the numbers crunched. However, it should NOT affect past raids and these should be retrofitted to the new, smaller numbers.

  6. #286
    Mechagnome wholockian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinachsandwich View Post
    I'm against the squish; when they do it i'm leaving the game. I was really surprised at how much support they got from the community on this awful idea.
    See ya
    OT: I'm all for it because the numbers are ridiculous. I'm surprised people have a problem with this. I mean, seriously. Get over it; it's going to happen.

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  7. #287
    Mechagnome Televators's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandcamp16 View Post
    See ya
    OT: I'm all for it because the numbers are ridiculous. I'm surprised people have a problem with this. I mean, seriously. Get over it; it's going to happen.
    No clue why anyone would be against this. The numbers are meaningless. It's the percentages that matter. What's the difference between doing 75 damage to a mob with 15,000 HP and doing 50k damage to a mob with 5,000,000? Literally nothing.

  8. #288
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrth View Post
    Item squish ultimately isn't about low numbers vs big numbers. It's about keeping guilds from falling apart and people from ragequitting.
    <snip of the rest of the post which is interesting and should be read>
    You tied your post around the social effects which is fine. I tend to agree with your reasoning although I'm not certain that along with an item squish we'll see a totally new system set into place that will be more linear instead of geometric. Simply addressing the numbers without addressing the long-term reasons on why and how we got here won't solve much. That's where it gets very complicated with old content.
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  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Augh View Post
    Let's be real, the people who would have their "fun destroyed" by a numbers shakeup will be back to frenziedly beating off when they crit for 850(with no k!) within a month.
    Everything that needed to be said, here. The whole "I like big numbers" crowd don't have a leg to stand on. The numbers are big relative to what's around them. If your normal hit is 250, then a 1000 hit is a "big number."

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon View Post
    Yeah, and who cares about allocating 4 bytes more memory for every friggin' Int variable that gets changed. Piece of cake! Screw efficient programming, am I right?
    Even if they do use efficient programming by manually allocating memory in some parts (which i seriously doubt) its still less work than retuning every single thing from TBC/Wrath/Cata and MoP.

  11. #291
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Televators View Post
    No clue why anyone would be against this. The numbers are meaningless. It's the percentages that matter. What's the difference between doing 75 damage to a mob with 15,000 HP and doing 50k damage to a mob with 5,000,000? Literally nothing.
    The difference is that players will feel nerfed if they go from doing say 50k hits/crits down to 75dmg hits/crits. It's a bandaid situation at best.
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  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Madruga View Post
    From a technical point of view... Which are the limits the numbers can go up until we begin to have performance issues? I mean, when integer can no longer be integer, and the such?

    I don't really think "the sky is the limit". I have worked with simulations for a while and there were times that we had to use huge numbers and our simulation became severely gimped, even with good hardware.

    Don't really know if that would be an issue in WoW though... Somebody?
    Int64 numbers go from -9,223,372,036,854,775,808 to 9,223,372,036,854,775,807

  13. #293
    I don't expect to see an item squish, it would require too much reworking, and the apparent player power difference between say, T18 gear at ilvl 200 and T18 end of expansion gear being ilvl 220 would be meaningless.

    Players expect big numbers, and I suspect the number of players who would enjoy socketing an 8 intel gem again are pretty few. I think the mega damage model makes more sense, they can trunate the numbers and leave everything as is to preserve performance.

    Don't forget, boss difficulty is a function of player power. The difference between the last boss of the expansion and the first would be limited by the spread of player gear. Interesting mechanics are cool, but dps checks could become so tight that it might become TBC days of having to run every raid every single week to make sure each player has the BiS gear to be able to beat it.

  14. #294
    Herald of the Titans Adramalech's Avatar
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    Even if they do perform this "crunch" or "squish" or whatever, in a few years when we're back in the same numeric range we're in now, then what? Do we crunch the numbers again? How many times do we crunch the numbers (assuming WoW goes on for that long)? That's why I feel like a number reduction is quite silly. It'll "fix" things for a while (as if there was something to fix now), but at some point, we'll be back in the same situation we're in now.
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  15. #295
    I approve of the squish, as its getting a tad out-of-hand seeing 500k+ crits flash up during combat.

    That said, its gonna feel REALLY weird when I first log in, seeing a toon that used to average 50k+ dps doing 2k dps
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    [12:07:45] <+Radux> i think Bibi should post a super passive agressive message in there. like "OH NO LOVE FOR BIBI. I SEE HOW IT IS. YOU'RE WELCOME FOR CREATING THE SITE. CARRY ON."

    OH NO LOVE FOR BIBI. I SEE HOW IT IS. YOU'RE WELCOME FOR CREATING THE SITE. CARRY ON.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Televators View Post
    No clue why anyone would be against this. The numbers are meaningless. It's the percentages that matter. What's the difference between doing 75 damage to a mob with 15,000 HP and doing 50k damage to a mob with 5,000,000? Literally nothing.
    The problem is that it wont work like that.

    Up intull lvl 60 (included) nothing will change. The helath of lvl 1/10/35/50/60 mobs/players wont change.

    From lvl 60 to lvl 90 (assuming it will change in the next expansion) the exponential growth we have beene xperienced will change to linear one. of course, each mob will be adjusted to players OF THE CURRENT MOB LEVEL.

    But since the difference in power between different layers will be smaller, your power relative to old content will be much smaller, since your power doesnt grow exponentially any longer, but linearly.

    I hope you can understand it now.

  17. #297
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
    Even if they do perform this "crunch" or "squish" or whatever, in a few years when we're back in the same numeric range we're in now, then what? Do we crunch the numbers again? How many times do we crunch the numbers (assuming WoW goes on for that long)? That's why I feel like a number reduction is quite silly. It'll "fix" things for a while (as if there was something to fix now), but at some point, we'll be back in the same situation we're in now.
    This is what the supporters of the squash dont get, it wont really fix anything. It would just piss ALOT of people off at best.
    Last edited by Evil Inside; 2013-02-06 at 05:42 PM.
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  18. #298
    The Lightbringer Uzi's Avatar
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    I like it and agree with you, but I like how you tried to pass 541-463 as almost 100.

  19. #299

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Damn I was looking forward to the expansion where the numbers were so huge they didn't even fit in my screen, when numbers were so huge, they didn't fit any of the variable types in C++ (or whatever language WoW is programmed with), thus causing the game to crash, the computer to explode and my desk to catch fire.
    Not going to happen for a long long time.

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