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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Eschaton View Post
    You tied your post around the social effects which is fine. I tend to agree with your reasoning although I'm not certain that along with an item squish we'll see a totally new system set into place that will be more linear instead of geometric. Simply addressing the numbers without addressing the long-term reasons on why and how we got here won't solve much. That's where it gets very complicated with old content.
    If you have to do an item squish, you can address one of two ways. The easier way is to readjust ilvl of everything since Molten Core so that the growth of ilvl is linear through the end of MoP; you're essentially squishing the end-game bursts. As you indicate, this is a temporary solution that doesn't permanently solve the problem. Then again, because it's easier, Blizzard might not care; they may be content to do an item squish every three or four xpacs, with the belief/hope/plan that the game will not go on long enough that even with regular squishing we'll reach the Drama Point.

    The alternate way is to rebuild the system to attempt to solve it permanently. My only issue is that I don't know of a system that solves it permanently while still being within Blizzard design goals. You can remove enchants and gems from the equation, while still keeping crafting bonuses (instead of JC-only gems, they get an ability called "Rhinestoning" that gives them the craft prof stat buff on their chest, e.g.), but that doesn't solve the issue, just pushes it further out.

    The problem is endgame. Each tier of endgame increases non-linearly, and no matter what you do to squish it, the next xpac starts at a higher level than the previous one ended (maybe not compared to heroic final tier gear, but definitely compared to the leveling gear).

    Maybe the solution is tying tiers to levels? So if you were redoing MoP this way:
    5.0 max level is 86
    5.1 max level is 87
    5.2 max level is 88
    5.3 max level is 89
    5.4/final tier max level is 90

    Ignoring that you'd completely have to rework leveling, what this means is that with each tier that comes out, your dps/heals/whatever will drop automatically once you level up (because each % of a stat would require a higher stat number). You'd have to rig it some way so that you'll always improve over the previous level in terms of final dps, but it allows you to let ilvl increase exponentially without a commensurate increase in numbers.

    Whether such a change would be accepted by the community I can not say.

    As for old content, people were soloing Molten Core in Wrath. As I said back when this first came up, with the exception of fights where you can't beat an enrage timer anymore, an item squish only prevents you from facerolling old content; it doesn't necessarily prevent you from soloing it by using skill, time, and patience.

  2. #302
    High Overlord marathal's Avatar
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    Actually GC tweeted the other day that they were not looking at iLvL 1000 in "this expansion" so take that for what you want. Seems they are already considering the levels hitting that high

  3. #303
    It won't happen as they recognize the negative affects this has on people farming old content, which they also recognize as a frequent way people spend their itme.
    We are currently recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
    Even if they do perform this "crunch" or "squish" or whatever, in a few years when we're back in the same numeric range we're in now, then what? Do we crunch the numbers again? How many times do we crunch the numbers (assuming WoW goes on for that long)? That's why I feel like a number reduction is quite silly. It'll "fix" things for a while (as if there was something to fix now), but at some point, we'll be back in the same situation we're in now.
    From what Blizzard said, every expansion they would squish the last one, and keep the current one with exponential growth.

    Yeah, it doesnt make much sense, but somehow some people supports it.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by theredviola View Post
    I've always been for the item squish. Big numbers loose their "WOW!" factor when everything is a 5+ digit number with some 6 digit numbers tossed in.

    I remember in Wrath, as certain classes, you felt like a certified BADASS if you got 10K+ crits. Now, those are common for any 85+.
    This sums up my opinion basically. I remember back when cata was launched and you could get cata greens on the AH. I remember being 80 on my mage and having a large amount of health. like 30-40k and hitting for 10k or so. (hard to remember exactly) it felt great. now Im just "oh 200k crit... thats nice" Will I be mad if it doesnt happen though? Not really
    It has been scientifically confirmed that if Eiffel was green; he would in fact die.

  6. #306
    Herald of the Titans Adramalech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    From what Blizzard said, every expansion they would squish the last one, and keep the current one with exponential growth.

    Yeah, it doesnt make much sense, but somehow some people supports it.
    If that's how it'll be if they squish stats, I'd rather have no squish at all. Like I said, as long as our relative power to old content is unchanged, squish away, but if I could pick it, I'd rather have no squish at all. Too much of a hassle for absolutely 0 benefit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
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  7. #307
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    So essentially it boils down to people who want the squash because they've got their rose-tinted glasses on and/or because they're afraid of big numbers, against those who recognize that this wont really do anything but gimp us and kill the pasttime of soloing which alot of people love.
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  8. #308
    The Lightbringer Razorice's Avatar
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    I hope it's not happening. I want to reach 1M health

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    Nah, this is a thing where people want to guarantee that old content won't be compensated in order to validate their opinion of not wanting the ilvl crunch. It'll get thrown around the forums like a football despite blizz coming up with a solution just to keep ilvl's from being squashed. They'll go down the line. I was just thinking of possibilities, but they aren't just going to ignore -60.

    Old content won't be anymore difficult if they did this. You're thinking that they can't come up with a solution. When they can. If there are numbers, they can be changed.
    It is the only concern that I have, but I'm still not convinced that they'll solve it. As you know, Blizzard claims the simplest things to be "huge undertakings". After all, they still can't figure out a way to transfer heirlooms across realms. I don't have a lot of confidence in them. They would have to find a way to make it apply to all enemies, not just enemies in dungeons and raids. People still do farm outside of them.

    I still don't see what's wrong with the mega damage solution. They don't have to make some elegant solution to farming old instances. The only reason people don't support mega damage is because Blizzard intentionally made it look ridiculous in their explanation. It's not. It can be done very sensibly.

  10. #310
    My wife and I have a ball soloing old content for xmog gear and revisiting old dungeons and raids. We don't raid anymore other than LFR, we can't handle the schedule, but LFR lets us see new content and xmog farming lets us see old content and both are avenues for creating The Most Awesome Xmog Set. Ever.

  11. #311
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0sanac View Post
    So essentially it boils down to people who want the squash because they've got their rose-tinted glasses on and/or because they're afraid of big numbers, against those who recognize that this wont really do anything but gimp us and kill the pasttime of soloing which alot of people love.
    Pretty much. There's literally no good argument against big numbers unless your computer happens to be a toaster, in which case it might struggle. People had all of WOTLK/Cata to argue for this, yet not a peep. Tanks going from about 6k tops health in Vanilla to 18+ tops in TBC was the beginning.
    Last edited by Alenarien; 2013-02-06 at 06:19 PM.
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    Wanting stricter immigration policies is predicated upon highly racist views, undoubtedly.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    Pretty much. There's literally no good argument against big numbers unless your computer happens to be a toaster, in which case it might struggle.
    What if my computer is not only awesome but makes pretty good toast as well?

  13. #313
    Keyboard Turner
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    I bet all my money that this is going to be the "We haven't announced it yet". It makes sense to happen very soon because an item squish is definetely needed.
    Also GC said in his recents tweets said that some players may or may not like that upcoming big change(which guarantees that it will be very controversial).

    Maybe I really want it to happen so I'm trying to make sense out of things not leading directly there.

  14. #314
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oselot View Post
    I bet all my money that this is going to be the "We haven't announced it yet". It makes sense to happen very soon because an item squish is definetely needed.
    Also GC said in his recents tweets said that some players may or may not like that upcoming big change(which guarantees that it will be very controversial).

    Maybe I really want it to happen so I'm trying to make sense out of things not leading directly there.
    It's not needed, and they wouldnt force that down our throats so to speak, it's a very controversial issue and they know that there is ALOT of players that dont want it as well as those that do want it.
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  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    Why should the numbers be squished cause some people are scared of a few extra zeros
    I don't know about you, but its easier to read 123 vs 123,456.

    Imagine how bad it would be if our damage was instead 123,456,789. Even shortened, it would still read 123.4m, still a lot of characters.

  16. #316
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    I don't know about you, but its easier to read 123 vs 123,456.
    I have absolutely no problem processing either of those. There are addons that round the damage out for you to 3/4 digits if you cant/dont want to read 6 digits.
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  17. #317
    The great item squish is coming

    If it comes I simply quit the game .
    I'm a big soloer of old raids , and the squish wil kill all my fun . And all the future fun .

    So I will unsusbscribe.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    If it comes I simply quit the game .
    I'm a big soloer of old raids , and the squish wil kill all my fun . And all the future fun .

    So I will unsusbscribe.
    Whatever floats your goat man. If soloing outdated raids is the only thing you enjoy in the game, maybe MMORPG's aren't for you?

  19. #319
    Herald of the Titans Adramalech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    I don't know about you, but its easier to read 123 vs 123,456.

    Imagine how bad it would be if our damage was instead 123,456,789. Even shortened, it would still read 123.4m, still a lot of characters.
    I don't know, I don't have trouble reading 6 digit numbers, and even if I had, it's not like I usually spell out the entire number. Is this what we've come down to? Are the arguments for a number squish really "too hard to read"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Givemount View Post
    Whatever floats your goat man. If soloing outdated raids is the only thing you enjoy in the game, maybe MMORPG's aren't for you?
    It's not the only thing I enjoy doing, but it is a big part. Taking that away would also take a way a large part of my fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    As a warlock, allow me to be the first to say that I get tremendous amounts of joy from watching fear pathing take you to Africa.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    Twinking is like going back to school when you are 30, just to be smarter than the other kids.

  20. #320
    I am seeing a lot of people who don't understand numbers. Large numbers seem to be even more difficult for most. If large numbers are so scary in a video, how about everyone here go freak out over the $16,507,383,093,472 debt the United States government has wracked up. I see more people freaking out in this thread over fake, fantasy numbers than a real number that has a direct impact on the world. (source http://www.usdebtclock.org/ at 10:31am Pacific Time)

    A lot of what I am seeing in this thread about numbers can be best quoted by Chris Rock "It's like, what's four plus four? Jell-O!"
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