Page 20 of 24 FirstFirst ...
10
18
19
20
21
22
... LastLast
  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by chrth View Post
    If I can do 200k in heroic blues and 500k in raid purples, how do you balance the boss health?
    By fitting it to what you can do in the gear you're expected to have when first attempting the fight. It doesn't matter for the first boss of a raid what you can do after getting all of the gear from said raid. What matters is what you can do when you first encounter it.
    Quote Originally Posted by shutuproman View Post
    this is like debating global warming..

    Stats simply cant continue to grow so absurdly. (think big picture, at least 2-3 expansions left in wow)

    10k health to 20k to 100k to 400k to 1m? to 2.5m?

    obviously this is an extreme exaggeration.. but the concept still holds
    What concept? You haven't made any points yet. Just posted a few numbers.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by chrth View Post
    Except that hasn't occured yet.

    You're right, though, let me rephrase.

    If I can do 200k in heroic blues and 500m in raid purples, how do you balance the boss health?

    And yes, that is what will ultimately happen with the current situation.
    Boss health/damage is scaled to what Blizzard intends as the required gear level to defeat the boss to be.

    So the first few bosses in MSV are based on 463 ilvl give or take and the first bosses of HoF are based on 489 ilvl. Of course once you get gear from the encounters and outgear them they will be really easy but that happens anyway. So the difficulty of a boss is based on the level of gear you can possibly have before defeating it.

  3. #383
    Stood in the Fire jd812's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Pandaria
    Posts
    464
    i repeat the "squish" has already happened hasn't anyone noticed the k's and m's that a lot of numbers have now?

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    As long as they continue on the path of exponential power growth, it WILL happen at some point. The only question is when. Eventually they will be forced to rebalance everything to scale linearly instead of exponentially.

    And no it is not just making things up to support an opinion. Let's say by the end of MoP you are able to pull 120k DPS. In heroic blues you were probably around 50-60k. So roughly a 60k DPS swing. Do you think the playerbase would you be happy if by the end of the NEXT expansion, they were only able to do about 175k? No, they wouldn't. They would say they don't feel like they gained as much power. Because they really didn't. And because they have become used to exponential power growth. So Blizzard would have to inflate item levels to match player expectation. The higher the item levels go, the higher Blizzard has to push them in the following expansions to meet player expectations for power gain. It is not an exaggeration that unless something is done, we will be looking at a 400+ilvl difference between heroic blues and final tier epics in about 3 more expansions.
    They could easily just stop with the exponential stat increases. Theres no reason why gear has to go up so many ilvls between tiers, especially when that means your power is going up in multiples. So just make each tier go up 10-20% of the damage of a fresh max level character in heroic blues which would make the characters power go up at most 60% over the whole expansion. Then they can jump it up more while leveling so that you cant use last exp gear in this exp raids.

    Most people dont even understand exponential power increases so I doubt many people would be disappointed that their characters dps only went from 120-180k since previous expansions like Wrath or Cata dps only went up 15-50k. Also people would be much more happy with a slow dps raise than a huge dps nerf because of a squish.

    So limit stat inflation and implement scientific notation(Ks,Ms,Gs or Mega Damage) and you dont have to nerf everything.

  5. #385
    Whatever happens, I just want to be able to continue experiencing old content with my brother.

  6. #386
    I wonder what people would do if they just took all the ilvls off the gear and just let the stats speak for themselves.

  7. #387
    The ilvl squish serves a number of purposes. Not only does it make the numbers easier to manage, but it also means that there is less load on the servers that run wow. It takes far less resources to compute 124+346*1.3 than to compute 1247652+3462789*1.3. That's not saying that it's beyond the ability of the servers to calculate all this information, however it may start to get a bit much in an xpac or two's time....

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 12:48 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ringthane View Post
    I wonder what people would do if they just took all the ilvls off the gear and just let the stats speak for themselves.
    ilvl tooltip was only added to gear in Wrath. While you could see the ilvl with mods before this, it was something that few people did. You can easily see what item is a higher level. In terms of an ilvl squish the actual ilvl is only a symbol for the stats budget an item possesses. People would be able to infer the ilvl based of previous trends. Besides it's not about the ilvl specifically that's the problem, more so the exponential explosion of stats on gear.

    Here read this http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3885585
    Last edited by Rhyseh; 2013-02-07 at 12:51 AM.

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    I love high numbers

    I look forward to the day when i can crit for over a million

    After all aint we suppose to be getting more powerful as we get to the magical 100

    Why should the numbers be squished cause some people are scared of a few extra zeros
    ...you're not becoming weaker. everyone is going to be doing pretty much the same amount of numbers. EVERYONE WILL BE EQUAL WITH NUMBERS. and this will help fix balance issues. that's the main reason MoP pvp is horrible atm.

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    The ironic thing is that you are correct in that letting that happen would make Blizzard insane. Unfortunately you are completely ignoring the fact that it is inevitable unless Blizzard changes something. It is fairly simple math, which the graph Blizzard put out illustrates perfectly. Exponential item inflation is not sustainable. Eventually Blizzard, and the players, will have to accept that they are not going to see a continuous rate of power such as they have become accustomed to. It does not have to entail an item squish. That would simply be the most efficient way to accomplish a fix. There are other ways. But if it is not an item squish then whatever solution they devise will leave the players (specifically the ones who really like the big numbers) feeling like they are not gaining any power.
    With item levels become less important individually as the total numbers keep growing, it would require massive jumps in item levels between tiers, like nearly as much of a jump as the item level of the gear before it.

    Going from item level 66 (Molten Core) to 76 (Blackwing Lair) was a 15% increase in item levels. Going from 463 (dungeon gear) to 516 (heroic elite gear) is an 11% increase in item levels.

    Bigger numbers, but a smaller increase relatively.

    And you're ignoring that an item squish is a temporary solution since gear will start going up again, which will require an item level squish again in the future.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by lavaalamp View Post
    ...you're not becoming weaker. everyone is going to be doing pretty much the same amount of numbers. EVERYONE WILL BE EQUAL WITH NUMBERS. and this will help fix balance issues. that's the main reason MoP pvp is horrible atm.
    You wont notice it with stuff at the same level as you but you will notice being weaker with respect to lower level mobs that you are no loner exponentially stronger then. You would also probably feel weaker when all of your numbers are much smaller. Balance has nothing to do with large numbers since its all ratios and balance is bad right now because Blizzard has gotten slow about fixing balance issues unless its obviously OP(or they dont like your class ) I hear overwhelming cc is a big problem in PvP too, much more than dps/healing(as heals) balance.

  11. #391
    I know this is an unrealistic way to demonstrate what I find absurd in people saying "smaller numbers give more detail for blablabla..." but let's think like this for a moment:

    Using 10 heroic Lei Shi as an example here.

    Our tonight's Lei Shi kill accounted to the boss taking damage from 2836+1052+1283+319+333 = 5823 different hits, crits, ticks, crit ticks and glancing blows
    If the boss had 30000 health, in comparison to the 300m it is today, each source of damage would have to hit for an average of 5,15 damage compared to the ~51520 damage it is today.

    Now, let me ask you; which allows more room for customization or fine-tuning details; spells that normally hit for 5 damage sometimes hitting for 4 or 6, or spells that normally hit for 50000 damage sometimes hitting for 49687 or 50839? In the "squished" version, if you want a spell to deal more damage, you'd have to increase the spell's damage by 20%, whereas in the current version, you can increase the spell's damage by as little as 0,0002% to make it account to the damage done on the boss.

    Again; I know that this is an extreme example, but I hope you see my point in all this.

  12. #392
    They should of done this on MOP, it needs to be done and cant come soon enough. I am all for the squish, do it already.

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyseh View Post
    The ilvl squish serves a number of purposes. Not only does it make the numbers easier to manage, but it also means that there is less load on the servers that run wow. It takes far less resources to compute 124+346*1.3 than to compute 1247652+3462789*1.3. That's not saying that it's beyond the ability of the servers to calculate all this information, however it may start to get a bit much in an xpac or two's time....
    Actually, no, it doesn't. At least, it doesn't if you're dealing with data types that can contain either of those numbers and the result of that calculation. Adding two long ints always takes the same amount of time no matter what value is stored in them.
    The time required for a calculation is primarily dependent on the data types involved, not on the data itself.

  14. #394
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Quel'Thalas
    Posts
    7,045
    Quote Originally Posted by lavaalamp View Post
    ...you're not becoming weaker. everyone is going to be doing pretty much the same amount of numbers. EVERYONE WILL BE EQUAL WITH NUMBERS. and this will help fix balance issues. that's the main reason MoP pvp is horrible atm.
    except that A) isn't what Blizzard described and B) would now make lower levels have laughably small numbers.

    Say you had a 75% across the board decrease, your level 1 spells are now hitting for 1.5-2 damage. Wee

    Oh sure, level 1 may be a very small part of the game, but its the first part of the game you see and doing 1-2 damage against monsters with 10 health isn't fun, it's lame
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  15. #395
    Stood in the Fire jd812's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Pandaria
    Posts
    464
    this thread is pointless the "squish" has already happened http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/20...er-just-add-k/

  16. #396
    The Lightbringer MasterHamster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    3,792
    Seems like some doesn't grasp how the squish would negatively affect soloers, but here, I'll help.
    It'd be done in order to even out the exponential increase in ilvl. I doubt level 60 raids health and whatnot would drop nearly as much as it would for a level 90.

    And come on, where's the real arguments? Some love huge numbers, some hate it. You can't stand it? Get an addon to cut to K's.
    Because there's NO other benefit.

    True, there's no difference in hitting for 1500 out of 10,000 or 150,000 out of 1,000,000. We all get it. Question is why you aren't already doing something about it that doesn't require a squish that WILL make us less potent in older, less squished raids. It's NOT merely dividing every number in the game by 100. Geez.

    PS: http://www.wowinterface.com/download...verything.html
    Last edited by MasterHamster; 2013-02-07 at 03:03 AM.
    Nyoro~n? (´・ω・`)
    5:2 diet? Pft!

    Weight lost since 21st of June: 57kg/~125lb

  17. #397
    I wonder how many people would have even noticed this to be an "issue" if GC didn't ever bring it up. Regardless I still stand by what I said pages ago. I'd rather have them make new content than pull resources to do a squish as it will take a very long time to adjust every NPC, every mob, every boss and every item.
    I have been chosen by the big metal hand in the sky!

  18. #398
    Epic!
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,531
    Quote Originally Posted by majesta View Post
    I wonder how many people would have even noticed this to be an "issue" if GC didn't ever bring it up. Regardless I still stand by what I said pages ago. I'd rather have them make new content than pull resources to do a squish as it will take a very long time to adjust every NPC, every mob, every boss and every item.
    You missed thenpartbwhere blizzard already had this implemented internally? It would take no resources because their proposed system is already created. Go back a couple pages and read where a blue was talking about mortal strike hitting for 200s etc.
    Random stuff WoW UI Enthusiast WoW
    Youtube Some old UIs care#2582
    PC Setup Lastest UI (Roth's Diablo inspired) EU-Horde

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by carebear View Post
    You missed thenpartbwhere blizzard already had this implemented internally? It would take no resources because their proposed system is already created. Go back a couple pages and read where a blue was talking about mortal strike hitting for 200s etc.
    There is no "system". They manually cut down all numbers in their internal build.

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Seems like some doesn't grasp how the squish would negatively affect soloers, but here, I'll help.
    It'd be done in order to even out the exponential increase in ilvl. I doubt level 60 raids health and whatnot would drop nearly as much as it would for a level 90.

    And come on, where's the real arguments? Some love huge numbers, some hate it. You can't stand it? Get an addon to cut to K's.
    Because there's NO other benefit.

    True, there's no difference in hitting for 1500 out of 10,000 or 150,000 out of 1,000,000. We all get it. Question is why you aren't already doing something about it that doesn't require a squish that WILL make us less potent in older, less squished raids. It's NOT merely dividing every number in the game by 100. Geez.

    PS: http://www.wowinterface.com/download...verything.html
    Is there an addon that converts to scientific notation?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •