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  1. #401
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Honestly, I wish it had happened already. Ne tiers of content aren't quite as fun when you know you're going to have to replace every single item you're currently wearing.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    Honestly, I wish it had happened already. Ne tiers of content aren't quite as fun when you know you're going to have to replace every single item you're currently wearing.
    I have to say that new tiers aren't as fun when you know you aren't going to upgrade everything, but each to their own.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulpei View Post
    I have to say that new tiers aren't as fun when you know you aren't going to upgrade everything, but each to their own.
    Either way, what does this have to do with the item squish?

  4. #404
    I recall Netharia making a post that the squish was already mathematically done, but they decided to hold off on it for this expansion's release since they had VERY major changes with the talent specs and other whathaveyous... she stated they felt it was too much change all at once.

    It will come, but most likely not until we get closer to the next expansion.
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  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkwarrior42 View Post
    Either way, what does this have to do with the item squish?
    the squish is the result of exponential scaling between tiers and expansions. Blizzard has stated that they like the exponential scaling because it guarantees that upgrades will feel like upgrades, therefore if they don't change exponential scaling it will just postpone the issue and in 8 years they'll have to squish the numbers again. If Blizzard switches from exponential scaling, then upgrades will be less relevant and you will likely not be upgrading your gear between tiers because it won't really be worth it
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  6. #406
    Scarab Lord Humbugged's Avatar
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    I agree to an item squish. Level 60 raid gear should be as powerful as level 70 green gear AT LEAST. as it stands gear from Molten Core is replaced from the moment you enter Outland. I killed Ragnaros, yet a boar in Outland is more worthy of a powerful weapon?
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  7. #407
    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by shutuproman View Post
    this is like debating global warming..
    What the hell does that even mean?

    Stats simply cant continue to grow so absurdly. (think big picture, at least 2-3 expansions left in wow)

    10k health to 20k to 100k to 400k to 1m? to 2.5m?

    obviously this is an extreme exaggeration.. but the concept still holds
    So you are getting stronger as you progress. What exactly is wrong with that?

    Soloing old content is just boring to me. I want to feel engaged with a battle. I want to be tested, and have to actually pay attention and try. It feels really cheap, to think my level 90 is so powerful that he can solo most of the "most powerful bosses in wow". Trash mobs feel stronger in current content than bosses in previous. Not very fun.
    Well since you don't like it I guess no one does. Guess we should just make changes to the game that only you approve of. Honestly shelfishness like this is what ruins the game not large numbers. Also if you're so bored by soloing where can I see your solo LK kill, or solo dw kill. Depending on what you solo yes it can be very easy or very hard and at the hard end it takes FAR more skill than raiding current content does.

    WoW turns into a job, gotta grind, gotta get high stats, and do more dps.. always hearing "ive gotta get MY insert item name". As if it was owed to you, or already yours.
    Funny since you want to remove content because YOU don't like it.

    not "lets go raid some dungeon, kill some epic foes and collect their treasure.
    Uh isn't that what we do now? Also funny because thats the reason why many people solo old content.

    The less numbers based this game becomes, the more fun the majority of it's subscribers will have. Maybe some will remember dueling in Ultima Online.. when items had no stats. pure skill vs skill (or internet connection speed) Obviously wow is a stat based game.. but it should feel like the numbers are behind the scenes.
    Any game that you play is a numbers game. For someone to go from alive to dead in a digital world numbers are being used. If numbers scare you then might I suggest you see someone about that phobia. But if you really want it I am sure you could ask blizz for an option to turn off all number viewing and they would oblige. Numbers are still there though but try not to think about it.

    I do not for the life of me understand how large numbers are a concern and how a squish will solve any imagined problem. People complaining about balance must be very new to this game or very new to Blizzard products. I have been playing this game for 6 years and cannot think of one time where it was balanced. Hell Blizzard couldn't balance Starcraft II at release and they only had three teams to balance. Not sure why you think they will ever be able to balance 11 classes. Its the eb and flow of almost any game.
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  8. #408
    I wouldn't mind the squish. It would be better if it were linear for past expansions but still exponential for the current expansion. At the release of next expansion, the last one also goes linear and new expansion comes with exponential gear upgrades.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladar View Post
    I am pretty sure in a few expansions all items will have only two stats (attack and defense) with single digit numbers.

    Tards Glove: +1 ATTACK +2 DEFENSE
    Dumbed Down Sword: +3 ATTACK +1 DEFENSE
    Crown of the LFR Champion: +2 ATTACK +2 DEFENSE
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  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by alucardtnuoc View Post
    You can't do 1m crits, feel sorry for you =(
    Go play a rogue then you will understand why 100k crit is still cool
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  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    Honestly, I wish it had happened already. Ne tiers of content aren't quite as fun when you know you're going to have to replace every single item you're currently wearing.
    Its been like that for a whille, like since Wrath trinkets have been the only thing you keep for a while past the tier. The reason for this isnt as much ilvl inflation as it is standardized stats. By that I mean all ilvl 496 items of a slot have the same stam, primary stat where you used to be able to find items that had much better stats due to more flexible stat allocations. Also the drop tables are more full now so you wont go a few tiers without a piece of gear designed for your spec like in TBC where you used a Kara mace to tank as a pally until BT/Sunwell.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    Honestly, I wish it had happened already. Ne tiers of content aren't quite as fun when you know you're going to have to replace every single item you're currently wearing.
    If they did the squish, you'd still replace every item every tier. They would simply squish the current expansion stuff later.

  13. #413
    50% of people might have supported the change but I'd guess that of those 50%, 50% of them probably didn't understand what they were supporting. Just looking at the first 10 pages of this thread I already see a dozen people like that, an average of one per page.

    I can't believe that over 15 months after this idea was tossed out there that there are still people that get it wrong. I think the last time this thread came up, there was even someone claiming to be a math major telling the people (who had it right) that their math was wrong.

    Fact is, absent a zone buff or something similar for old raids, players would lose massive amounts of power in lower level content compared to current end game.

    Max level players will lose power relative to lower level players and monsters and conversely, lower level players will gain power relative to higher level players and monsters. The developers have said that quite clearly. Squishing everything down in proportion is the MEGA DAMAGE solution and it is NOT the ITEM SQUISH solution.

    If you want a taste of what it would be like, go put on your T4 and Karazhan epics and go clear Molten Core right now.

  14. #414
    Warchief Rizendragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    I love high numbers

    I look forward to the day when i can crit for over a million

    After all aint we suppose to be getting more powerful as we get to the magical 100

    Why should the numbers be squished cause some people are scared of a few extra zeros
    We're reaching a computational ceiling here is the problem. We need a solution. I remember seeing people reaching 10K and then hitting it myself and thinking "holy shit." We don't need to be hitting 1,000,000 crits etc. We need to get back to the 1-2k crits again.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 06:02 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Cows For Life View Post
    If you want a taste of what it would be like, go put on your T4 and Karazhan epics and go clear Molten Core right now.
    This is pure speculation, but I'm pretty sure a naked 90 could solo MC at this point. Base character power is hugely inflated atm because of the ilvl disparity...
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  15. #415
    Combat ratings correlate to percentages, and they're pushed back to baseline each expansion. Other numbers increase linearly, and can feasibly increase forever. At level 60, a epic gear gave you 3000 hp. at level 70' we had maybe 15k, and at level 80, 25k was a lot. Now everybody has 400k. In ICC, we expected 6000 DPS on fights, and now people do 90,000. The game can handle linear scaling for damage and health. There is no reason we can't have 1.2 million hp at level 95.
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  16. #416
    I'd rather hit for 150 damage than for 345.678.093. 150 feels stronger, because there's a relation to it - and an upgrade is instantly notable. I stopped caring about upgrades ever since WotLK, because there's just no immediate sense of relation any more. It's just an unintuitive mess of numbers that don't say anything. The bigger the numbers, the more boring it gets.

  17. #417
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    For those that missed it. Blizzard has already implemented the solution to this.

    So just drop it, it's not happening.
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  18. #418
    Stood in the Fire tidus4eva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0sanac View Post
    For those that missed it. Blizzard has already implemented the solution to this.

    So just drop it, it's not happening.
    There is no sources to that 3rd party site anywhere? Get me some sources and post them here
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  19. #419
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    Debates like these are not productive for a community in WoW, as it turns players against each other in a game about teamwork. Remember the "no flying anymore" debate that plagued the Blue Tracker and caused a Blue to draw forth that the OP one of the threads discussing that particular debate was alarmed because of nothing?

    1. 32-bit, the primary reason that this is shockingly relevant, is dying out. 64 bit is becoming way cheaper as time goes on, meaning more and more people have access to technology that would "perform" more.

    2. Even if the 32-bit argument was invalid, my iPhone could run WoW fighting Wind Lord Mel'Jarak on 25 heroic, without spell graphics. With spell graphics, it would lag a bit. Wind Lord has TONS of numbers flying around, toward adds, toward raiders, toward him, on 25 heroic. Sha of Anger, far less in the numbers department, but my computer lags out to spell graphics.

    3. There is an addon for "number-phobia". Scared of numbers? Find that addon and install it. Or, muck around in Blizzard's base UI and find a way to toggle around with the numbers so you only see yourself hitting the boss with lag-causing spells and percentile values to indicate how long a fight has gone.

    4. The "squish" is not a flat reduction. It brings H:Madness down to Vanilla/BC item levels, and MOP to BC/Sunwell item levels. As in, I would need a group for Black Temple at 90. A full 25 man raid group would wipe, because we were to be wearing gear that barely supersedes the content before the squish, knowing how many stats we would need at 90.

    5. As for upgrades, why not Dungeon Defender's upgrade rating system, a positive mark for an upgrade, a neutral mark for a side-grade, and a negative sign for a downgrade? If "number phobia" still exists by this point.

    6. If "number phobia" still thrives to this point, even after 5, Blizzard has implemented the K and M system for numbers over 9,999, meant to be easy for the eyes. Right now, its commas. In the future, it will be Ks and Ms. Also, how about scientific equations? People already use the abbreviated format for theory-crafting.

    7. Can this thread disappear like the last thread discussing this "debate"? I don't want my feeling of accomplishment and progress be destroyed because of a debate. Its comedy to see mobs your level destroy a raid boss from long ago, because it shows that the raid boss in question is weak in comparison to our natural strength. Eventually, H:25 Ragnaros (Firelands) will die to mobs in Patch 9-10, while being soloable in Patch 6-7, much like how Ragnaros (Level 63) will hilariously die to Mushan in theory.
    A wise saying once said "A wise man builds a foundation from the bricks others have thrown at him."

  20. #420
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tidus4eva View Post
    There is no sources to that 3rd party site anywhere? Get me some sources and post them here
    Here you go.

    GC video 14:47. Is that good enough to finally have this argument dropped? It's not happening, just get over it.
    Last edited by Evil Inside; 2013-02-07 at 08:08 AM.
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